We are officially embarrassing

[RogueSwan]

Why wouldn't Grundy or Vogels be picked to play on one of the Saints tall forwards. One of both these guys should be groomed for a key defensive post.

this is third hand, but RWO comments have both Grundy and Vogels as unaccountable in the back half. Much better at being leading forwards apparently.

[Captain]

this is third hand, but RWO comments have both Grundy and Vogels as unaccountable in the back half. Much better at being leading forwards apparently.

I have heard similar things.

I don't think that them being unaccountable is unfixable. Good old bloods discipline would counter that. I'm sure that it must be hard being accountable in the ACT standard, yet I bet they both would be if promised a seniors game.

[Jeffers1984]

It's hard to blood good key backman if they have nothing to defend in the reserves!

[giant]

I'm surprised Crouch is copping the bagging he is - for mine, he's looked OK since he's come back. He'll keep getting better.

OTOH, we all love the Eski but he actually copped a bit of a pasting from Xavier Clarke on the weekend. All very well to accuse the Swans coaching staff of playing favourites - RWO is pretty good at that too.

[RogueSwan]

I'm surprised Crouch is copping the bagging he is - for mine, he's looked OK since he's come back. He'll keep getting better.

OTOH, we all love the Eski but he actually copped a bit of a pasting from Xavier Clarke on the weekend. All very well to accuse the Swans coaching staff of playing favourites - RWO is pretty good at that too.

the thing is Eski is up and coming, blind freddy can see he has the skills and potential to be a very good footballer. This is why we can easily overlook one poor game.

[ScottH]

the thing is Eski is up and coming, blind freddy can see he has the skills and potential to be a very good footballer. This is why we can easily overlook one poor game.

Yes his opponent had a decent game but he did quell and few forward forays by the saints single handedly. he didn't always take the defensive mark but he certainly got in the way a number of times to frustrate the saints attacks. Without him the score would have been a lot worse for us.

[liz]

Yes his opponent had a decent game but he did quell and few forward forays by the saints single handedly. he didn't always take the defensive mark but he certainly got in the way a number of times to frustrate the saints attacks. Without him the score would have been a lot worse for us.

Plus he did damage in the opposite direction too. I know I said this last week too, but if we want Swans players to stop being so defensively orientated and to try to create more chances themselves, we have to accept that sometimes their opponents are going to get away from them. It comes down to a question of balance.

And while Malceski made a couple of ordinary decisions, he also set up a fair amount. When he has the ball in his hands, at least we know that most of his disposals are not just effective - they are constructive too, and he can spot up and deliver to players in a way that can pierce the opposition's defence.

[reigning premier]

Yep... we've got no midfield....

McVeigh is @@@@... drop him
Fossie is going OK and Kirk is doing OK as well... but neither are making decisive moves for us...

Agree that we need crumbers fwd, and think Phillips and Schneider are the men for the job.

Mathews is going OK down back. Crouch is as well. But Teddy needs to recapture his start of the year form if he wants to continue to be selected.

Eski is about our only shining light ATM....

In general terms, we simply don't have a team where they're all contributing....

[barry]

Yep... we've got no midfield....

McVeigh is @@@@... drop him
Fossie is going OK and Kirk is doing OK as well... but neither are making decisive moves for us...

Agree that we need crumbers fwd, and think Phillips and Schneider are the men for the job.

Mathews is going OK down back. Crouch is as well.

McVeigh is @@@@
Fosdike's kicking is @@@@
Kirk's kicking is @@@@
Phillips is @@@@ - Hes done absolutely nothing in the half dozen senior games he's played.
Scheider is @@@@-scared of physical contact.
Matthews is @@@@
Crouch is now @@@@ and slow.

Next.

[reigning premier]

McVeigh is @@@@
Fosdike's kicking is @@@@
Kirk's kicking is @@@@
Phillips is @@@@ - Hes done absolutely nothing in the half dozen senior games he's played.
Scheider is @@@@-scared of physical contact.
Matthews is @@@@
Crouch is now @@@@ and slow.

Next.

OK... well I'm all out of ideas now that you've discounted our entire list as being @@@@.....

You come up with some then??

[barry]

OK... well I'm all out of ideas now that you've discounted our entire list as being @@@@.....

You come up with some then??

Ok, if you insist.

Our game plan is now out of date. Thats the first thing that must change.
We need to play a two-pronged attack, especially at the SCG. Of Doyle or Everitt at FF, Hall at CHF.

We need to play only two taggers in the midfield. One of which is Kirk.

Our Midfield rotations should be out of:
Kirk,
Ablett,
Buchanon,
Davis *,
Schmidt
Malceski *.
Goodes *

* - Put our best players in where the ball is. Getting feed of Everitt or Jolly taps.

Banish McVeigh for a good 6 weeks. Banish J.Bolton for at least 2.
Put Crouch under extreme pressure to hold his place. Ditto Matthews.

[reigning premier]

Ok, if you insist.

Our game plan is now out of date. Thats the first thing that must change.
We need to play a two-pronged attack, especially at the SCG. Of Doyle or Everitt at FF, Hall at CHF.

We need to play only two taggers in the midfield. One of which is Kirk.

Our Midfield rotations should be out of:
Kirk,
Ablett,
Buchanon,
Davis *,
Schmidt
Malceski *.
Goodes *

* - Put our best players in where the ball is. Getting feed of Everitt or Jolly taps.

Banish McVeigh for a good 6 weeks. Banish J.Bolton for at least 2.
Put Crouch under extreme pressure to hold his place. Ditto Matthews.

OK... see... It's not that hard to be positive after all is it????

And FTR, I'd be inclined to agree with 99% of the above!!

[Jewels]

Ok, if you insist.

Our game plan is now out of date. Thats the first thing that must change.
We need to play a two-pronged attack, especially at the SCG. Of Doyle or Everitt at FF, Hall at CHF.

We need to play only two taggers in the midfield. One of which is Kirk.

Our Midfield rotations should be out of:
Kirk,
Ablett,
Buchanon,
Davis *,
Schmidt
Malceski *.
Goodes *

* - Put our best players in where the ball is. Getting feed of Everitt or Jolly taps.

Banish McVeigh for a good 6 weeks. Banish J.Bolton for at least 2.
Put Crouch under extreme pressure to hold his place. Ditto Matthews.

Why does this make so much sense to us yet the coaching staff don't seem to see it?

[sharp9]

Well i was going to start a new thread before it occurred to me that I HAD SAID IT ALL BEFORE and I wouldn't want to bore you folks too much.

ONe thing I have really noticed is that the Swans (unlike every other team in the comp) refose to put their best players in the middle. Strong, footy smart (that means being able to deliver a very quick disposal under extreme pressure that is actually smoewhat to advantage) and skilled. Yet, for some reason we keep on putting Bolton, Mathews and Fosdike in there, plus an out of form Buchanan.

Goodes is cream. Unlike Judd etc you cannot build a performance on him, he needs the OTHER midfielders to at least break even, and then he can slaughter the other team (instead of the ball).

The perfect midfielders win contested ball, get out of troubler and deliver. We have several of these players but they are rarely in the midfield.

This season is over (barring a miracle). Really we must have O'Keefe, Davis and Malceski as official midfielders...in ther to WIN THE BALL BEFORE THE OPPOSITION GETS IT......NONE of our midfield (except Goodes) are operating this way at the moment.

I know it has been said many, many times but Mathews is an embarrassment...Burns was finding the ball in 20 ot 30 metres of space at times. What is the point of a one dimensional player who rarely succeeds in even that dimension?

The unkind facts are that many of our Cortinas just don't azctually have very much talent at all.

Talent is being able to pick up the ball or indeed catch it when passed (on the full) by hand or foot. In this we are the worst in league by quite some distance.

Talent is taking a mark in a contested situation. Again we are nearly the worst.

Talent is hitting a team mate WHEN GOING FORWARD who has managed to find space away from his marker. Don't know the official stats but it feels like we are nearly the worst in the league at kicking to advantage at the pointy end of the field.

Back in the day our lack of talent was exceused by the workrate which saw opposition's best nullified...leaving our better players to win the game.

Obviously this is over now.

We have been beaten more talented midfields who have ALSO outworked us.

I've enjoyed supporting this aberration of a champion football team. I don't think it will ever happen again. We have changed the way football is played. It is now much more of a team game played with unstinting workrate than it was even five years ago.

I now look forward to the moist talented teams winning the vast majority of the time. So, that being the case I am looking forward to the Swans unearthing new talent and putting old talent in the most important positions.

Too often we have ignored talent for whatever reason. Vogels has talent. His three goal game against the dogs was Franklinesque. He was the only forward who looked talented against the Eagles in Rnd 1.

He was dropped for (presumably) not getting enough of the ball.
Schmidt has talent. He is a real . I am going to say he is "old fashioned" in that he tries to get the ball first and deliver to advantage...and he does at least as well as the opposition. Not many of our players could claim that right now.

Expect to see him dropped for Crouch of Kennelly or LRT.

The following players are below AFL average for all or most of the list below which makes up the category "talented"

Fumbling
Contested Marking
Delivery by hand
Delivery by foot
Clean hands on the ball in a fifty-fifty loose ball situation
Quick and good decision making/awareness

Jared Crouch
Ted Richards
Ben Mathews
Jarrad McVeigh
Paul Bevan
Jude Bolton
Nick Fosdike

In my opinion there is no longer any place for these players in the side and they should be replaced by less experienced but more talented young players (assuming they exist in the twos) and, by extension, the choice of players to elevate should be based on talent and potential....not on work rate and potential tagging ability.

Work rate can be learned...talent can only be honed.

To continue my rant...the following players have above average "talent"...even if some of them are out of form

Barry Hall
Peter Everitt
Leo Barry
Ryan O'Keefe
Nick Malceski
Michael O'Loughlin
Adam Goodes
Nick Davis
Tadgh Kennelly
Craig Bolton


Meaning all the rest have swings and roundabouts talent, when they're good they're brilliant and when they're bad they're not very good (as opposed to embarrassing!)


Amon Buchanan
Tim Schmidt
Luke Vogels
Luke Ablett
Brett Kirk
Sean Dempster
Adam Schneider
Darren Jolly
Stephen Doyle
Lewis Roberts-Thompson

We have to rebuild..so bring in the talent and see what happens. The time for trying to defend the Alamo is over. Our Good Ordinaries are just Ordinary now so let's get it over with.

Cheers

[TheMase]

Well i was going to start a new thread before it occurred to me that I HAD SAID IT ALL BEFORE and I wouldn't want to bore you folks too much.

Cheers

Great post mate, really summed it up quite well.

The amount of times I saw a ball go over someones head last night made me sick. I was making those passes when I was 16, it really shows the lack of skill our players really have.

As a side note that is 0 wins and 6 night losses, and 6 wins and 0 day losses.
We are being exposed.