roosy s bitterness according to patrick smith

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  • liz
    Veteran
    Site Admin
    • Jan 2003
    • 16733

    #46
    Originally posted by Ludwig

    The HITB rule looks more difficult. The criteria for determining an offence is just too difficult to adjudicate. The league clearly wishes to stop players pushing opposition out of marking contests, and fair enough. Liz noted that the operative word may be 'incidental'. How is an umpire to determine what is a push constituting an unfair advantage, and what is just incidental to good old marking contest. And until that happens the dispute will rage on.
    The "incidental" is codified in the rule books, as NMW posted earlier today. The current interpretation seems to be in clear opposition to the written laws of the game. There have been a couple of frees paid in non-Swans games recently where a player literally brushed the hips of an opponent and was penalised. If umpires aren't capable of distinguishing that level of contact, we have a big big problem.

    (Note - I'm not criticising the umpires for paying them in those games. That is what they've been instructed to do.)

    But my concerns are more fundamental than those obviously stupid instances.

    Footy is a game played by big men. Even the midgets of the competition - the likes of Bell and Phillips - are taller than me. They are big, strong men and the game is about combat. Taking a mark isn't meant to be easy. That's why you get a reward of a free kick at goal if you take one close enough. They are meant to be about battling gladiators using their own particular combination of size, strength, speed, agility, leap, hand skill, ball watching skill etc to nab the ball for themselves, pitted against opponents trying to stop them doing so or - even better - trying to mark the ball themselves.

    I am not advocating a free for all where any contact is permitted. But wherever you have two or more guys genuinely contesting the ball rather than deliberately restricting their opponent with no regard for the ball itself, I would much rather err on the side of letting them get on with it than finding reasons to penalise each and every thing.

    Another of my gripes is homogenisation. One of the things that attracted me to the game was the variety of skills, tactics, strategies. Bomb it long to a packed goal square. Kick to a man on a lead. Kick over the back of the defence and allow the player to run onto it. Dob it long from 50m. Bring the ball to ground and let the little blokes weave their magic. Or tie it up and let the very big blokes help out the very little blokes weave their magic.

    The only justification I have read for the HIB rule seems to be to reward the man in front. Well why should we reward the man in front? What is intrinsicly better about always being in front? Sure, there are many times when it is an advantage but it seems to be implying that, in particular, the tactic of kicking over the back of a pack is an illegimate one. How boring would it be if everything was kick, lead, mark?

    Matthew Richardson got pinged last week essentially because he read the ball better than Michael. Or more to the point, because his team mate saw where he was positioned and kicked it to his advantage. Michael was just too slow to read the play.

    Similarly, although it wasn't a HIB issue, the first contentious free against Hall on Saturday arose because he was in the right position, Michael was scrambling to get into the contest, and Hall held his ground.

    I have similar issues about the chopping of the arms. If a player forcefully knocks the lower part of an opponent's arm, preventing him marking and with no real intent to mark himself, fair enough, penalise. But once one player is behind, it is almost anatomically impossible to attempt to spoil without some arm contact occuring. Plenty of players can mark the ball despite this moderate contact. Riewoldt is a genius. ROK is pretty good too. Great, reward them for that attribute but don't allow all those who don't have good enough timing or strong enough hands to be pandered to.

    There are no rights or wrongs about this. It is all about opinion of the kind of game we want to watch. I know what I want to see.

    And based on the stated opinions of around 95% of players who have publically expressed a view on the matter, it is the kind of game they want to play too.
    Last edited by liz; 4 June 2007, 10:45 PM.

    Comment

    • Ludwig
      Veterans List
      • Apr 2007
      • 9359

      #47
      Well put Liz!

      I think you're right that 95% of us agree on the what a marking contest should look like. It's just a common sense thing. The HIB rule is getting umpires to focus on a very subtle point in a rough physical game. It's just too hard. And there's also so much gratuitous pushing in the back that goes by without comment, but a love tap in a marking contest becomes such a highly technical issue that it can only be determined in slow motion replay.

      The AFL needs a serious rethink about this. It's a sad commentary on the game when the HIB rule is the talking point every Monday. Maybe it's the AFL's way of moving focus away from the drug issues.

      Comment

      • Nolie
        On the wing
        • Jul 2004
        • 520

        #48
        Originally posted by swansrock4eva
        ... More than anything it's put additional pressure on the umpires to try to be consistent with ANOTHER rule change and it's added to the frustration of all involved when calls aren't as consistent as one might hope they would be. I know the rule change certainly hasn't added to my enjoyment of footy (as a spectotor or being involved).....
        Good comment. In some ways I agree with Smith. It has always been illegal to push someone in the back. It still amazes me that the players are so skilled these days they have the time and skill to grab a handful of jumper in a contest, have the skill to hold out two or one hands to the back of an opponent while still concentrating on the flight of the ball. Great skills. But it does make it a nightmare for the umpires to adjudicate. Some hold, some push. What is and what is not a push will always be subjective. Subjectivity - one of the beauties of the game. Thus from that point of view I can understand where the laws committee is coming from. They are trying to stop the scragging, pushing and pulling in a marking contest which is indeed unsightly and one cannot tell who is holding whom. It has been a blight on the game. Unfortunately the umpires turn this "no hand anywhere near the back AT ALL" into a form of "robotic" umpiring. There were some dreadful decisions on the weekend - I didnt watch much of the Sydney game because someone told me the result before we got the delayed telecast and obviously Barry Hall copped a couple- but there was a also classic against Paul Medhurst where he clearly pushed/bumped a Freo guy in THE SIDE took the clean mark and was pinged!
        They do the same robotic umpiring when someone gets run down from behind. There are times when a player is in the process of kicking - i.e is about to drop the ball to his foot - and gets tackled from behind. It automatically gets paid now as DTB - the crowd expect it. In my view that is play on in those circumstances.

        Comment

        • Industrial Fan
          Goodesgoodesgoodesgoodes!
          • Aug 2006
          • 3317

          #49
          Originally posted by liz
          Matthew Richardson got pinged last week essentially because he read the ball better than Michael. Or more to the point, because his team mate saw where he was positioned and kicked it to his advantage. Michael was just too slow to read the play.
          I think it is a shame Mal "I've put in an application at Gardening PNG for my second retirement" Michael didnt bear the brunt of going to ground too easily in that contest too. He's really had a good run - bad, bad play gets two thumbs up with these rules.
          He ate more cheese, than time allowed

          Comment

          • big bear
            Bleed Red and White
            • Jun 2005
            • 256

            #50
            Patrick Who? How many ganes has he played or coached. A tosser. Take no notice and he may be consumed by his own ego.
            SYDNEY SWANS.....THE GREATEST FOOTBALL CLUB IN LIVING MEMORY.

            Comment

            • vanberlo=god
              On the Rookie List
              • Apr 2007
              • 75

              #51
              Originally posted by ugg
              wow, what a biased article.

              hope he chokes on andy's peanut sized weiner

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