Vogels and Grundy

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  • ugg
    Can you feel it?
    Site Admin
    • Jan 2003
    • 15970

    #16
    Not sure whether Staker was the right matchup. Although tall I wouldn't class Staker as a KP forward, more like a tall flanker. I think Kennelly has been matched up him before and that's probably a better matchup.
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    • NMWBloods
      Taking Refuge!!
      • Jan 2003
      • 15819

      #17
      I think Vogels and Grundy have both suffered from limited opportunity in the seniors. Certainly they've had nowhere near the chances Bevan and McVeigh have had.
      Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

      "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

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      • Triple B
        Formerly 'BBB'
        • Feb 2003
        • 6999

        #18
        Originally posted by liz
        A lot of those 80 or so Staker games have been pretty ordinary too - including the 2005 GF where he was one of the Swans' best.
        That's pretty close to the money.

        Judd's Norm Smith was a travesty for Monty/LRT/Fosdike and 1 or 2 others with legitimate claims, but Staker had as big a role in the Swans win as anybody.
        Driver of the Dan Hannebery bandwagon....all aboard. 4th April 09

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        • Bloody Hell
          Senior Player
          • Oct 2006
          • 3085

          #19
          Originally posted by stellation
          I thought that Heath positioned himself quite well when playing in defence, his main problem simply seemed to be the change up in pace and skill from Canberra to the AFL. He appeared to have been asked to play in defence with a primary purpose of actually defending, we don't bring in too many guys and stick them close to goal straight away with that as their main job. I wouldn't mind seeing him get another game or two.
          I thought his main problem was his arms were 6 inches shorter than they needed to be. Being thrown out of a marking contest in the square didn't make him look special.

          It's a big responsiblilty to be dropped into the last line like that. The only thing I would think is Roos thinks he can make it, so he let him get his pants pulled down to show him where he is in terms of development, and what he has to do. Staker is no star.
          The eternal connundrum "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object" was finally solved when David Hasselhoff punched himself in the face.

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          • stellation
            scott names the planets
            • Sep 2003
            • 9720

            #20
            Originally posted by Bloody Hell
            I thought his main problem was his arms were 6 inches shorter than they needed to be.
            That's fair, but in general I was left with the impression that where his fist was found to be just short of effecting a spoil that his instincts had him moving in the right direction... if that makes sense...
            I knew him as a gentle young man, I cannot say for sure the reasons for his decline
            We watched him fade before our very eyes, and years before his time

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            • liz
              Veteran
              Site Admin
              • Jan 2003
              • 16772

              #21
              Originally posted by stellation
              That's fair, but in general I was left with the impression that where his fist was found to be just short of effecting a spoil that his instincts had him moving in the right direction... if that makes sense...

              It does.

              Dunks was pretty much a journeyman defender until 1996 when he suddenly elevated himself into one of the best half-dozen FBs in the league (argubaly the best in 1996, despite Silvagni getting the AA position that year). He was no quicker than Grundy and a similar height. But one thing he became brilliant at was reading the ball in flight and his hands were like vices.

              Obviously can't compare Grundy's ACTAFL form but he does seem to have those same abilities. And he's a much better kick than Dunks too!

              Who knows whether he'll make it but it would be good to see him get a few more chances down there to find out.

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              • Bloody Hell
                Senior Player
                • Oct 2006
                • 3085

                #22
                Originally posted by liz
                It does.
                Who knows whether he'll make it but it would be good to see him get a few more chances down there to find out.
                As a backman or a forward?
                The eternal connundrum "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object" was finally solved when David Hasselhoff punched himself in the face.

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                • hammo
                  Veterans List
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 5554

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Bloody Hell
                  I thought his main problem was his arms were 6 inches shorter than they needed to be.
                  It works for Daniel Kerr so maybe Heath will be OK in the long run
                  "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

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                  • Ludwig
                    Veterans List
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9359

                    #24
                    Staker is a very tough assignment for any defender. Many swan defenders have been outmarked by him over the years. Now in career best form, he goes up against a young player that hasn't played any defence in the seniors.

                    The swans really didn't have a good matchup for Staker, unless you want to put Goodes on him. With Lynch, Hanson and Staker up forward, the swans were badly outsized, and have been all season. Badly need LRT to return, just for the size marchup. As for Grundy, I don't think too much can be taken from the game.

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                    • JF_Bay22_SCG
                      expat Sydneysider
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 3978

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Wazza
                      I was suprised they went with Grundy in defence and I was even more suprised when they left Jolly on Cox in defence.

                      The suprise to me was LRT is left in the reserves and they went with Heath for a defensive role.

                      Vogels did a couple of nice things but goes missing for periods.

                      Cheers

                      Waz

                      Vogels had one good game as a forward in I think 2005 & has been resting on his laurels since then. He has a large frame and often struggles to last the distance in game at AFL level, especially as a key position defender.

                      I know Roos was worried about Leo's hamstring, but playing Grundy in defence was a very very strange call. We lost control of the game in this 3rd quarter as Staker Cox etc were able to get too much of the footy without anyone with much defensive nouse being able to stop them. Richards was yet again a major disappointment in my eyes. He just doesn't do enough out there. Craig Bolton I swear can't do things all on his own.

                      Hopefully for the Richmond game we will see LRT make a return, with Leo reverting to BP & Tagdh to a HBF.

                      JF
                      "Never ever ever state that Sydney is gone.They are like cockroaches in the aftermath of a nuclear war"
                      (Forum poster 'Change', Big Footy 04Apr09)

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                      • TMSS
                        On the Rookie List
                        • May 2006
                        • 59

                        #26
                        FFS give these guys a break, its not their fault we struggling.

                        Anyone ever heard of encouragement?

                        Get over it and support your team don't bag them constantly!

                        Not everyone here is guilty but some comments recently are laughable.

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                        • NMWBloods
                          Taking Refuge!!
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 15819

                          #27
                          I agree - we should concentrate on bagging those who deserve it - J Bolton, McVeigh, Ablett, Hall, Goodes...
                          Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                          "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                          Comment

                          • LRTs LoveChild
                            Left Right Out
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 36

                            #28
                            Maybe this has been covered somewhere else but Hall being a KP forward and Tiger being a running halfback flanker, why bring in 2 KP forwards as emergencies?? 1 makes sense but 2, I thought that left us short of run out of the back.

                            I know that they have to name emergencies then fly them as well but if they are in doubt why not name someone who is a better in to cover the out.

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                            • Lucky Knickers
                              Fandom of Fabulousness
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 4220

                              #29
                              I didn't think Grundy was too bad and bet he'll learn a lot from that. I don't think he's a forward so maybe grooming him into a FB a la Dunkley, as Liz suggested, has merit.
                              Vogels was also not too bad when he was on the ground.
                              What was noticeable was:
                              a) the space the swans allowed their opponents.
                              b) the number of missed tackles - Judd and Cuz were easily able to shrug out of tackles.
                              c) the lack of support in defence - the ball was pinging in there and no one was getting back to help out either Bolts or Grundy to block up the space in front of a leading Lynch and Hansen
                              d) Jolly/Spida can run with Cox

                              Comment

                              • barry
                                Veterans List
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 8499

                                #30
                                Vogels is a depth player, and thats all he will ever be. He is in the squad to cover for injuries in the best 22. He's in his mid-20's so probably has peaked as far as football ability goes.
                                Sure, after Hall and Oloughlin retire he may be our key forward during some rebuilding years, but I dont think he has the ability to be a premiership player.

                                Grundy, on the other hand, seems to be getting a few chances. I think they are trying to get him to be like Richards where he can play either end of the ground. Leo Barry and LRT arent really that flexible, so we need defenders who can go forward ala Hunter for the e-girls.

                                Grundy has been disappointing in his senior appearances though. I hope he kicks on. How old is he ?

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