Our best lineup (players & positions) to take us through the finals in 07...

[goswannie14]

In your opinion, what is it?

Here's mine:

B: Ben Matthews, Leo Barry, Lewis Roberts-Thomson
HB: Tadhg Kennelly, Craig Bolton, Nick Malceski
C: Luke Ablett, Brett Kirk, Amon Buchanan
HF: Ryan O?Keefe, Michael O?Loughlin, Nic Fosdike
F: Adam Schneider, Barry Hall, Nick Davis
Foll: Darren Jolly, Jude Bolton, Adam Goodes
I/C: Peter Everitt, Jarrad McVeigh, Ted Richards, Sean Dempster

EMG: Tim Schmidt, Paul Bevan, Matthew Laidlaw

Replace Mathews with Bevan and Jude Bolton with Schmidt and I would agree with you.

[liz]

...
O'Keefe is down a little.
...

Kirk is down a little.

...

MOL is slightly down.

I would say Micky O and Kirk have been above their previous seasons.

Maybe not in raw numbers, but certainly their influence on games.

O'keefe has been working harder again this year too.

...

Jolly is hot and cold.

I'm more with MMG on those particular players. I think Kirk is having a super season. He's barely played an ordinary game all year - last week was his quietest second half in ages and was maybe down to the hit of the head on the cricket pitch - or possibly just the general lethargy of the Swans in the second half.

Micky O is exerting influence far wider across the ground than in past years.

O'Keefe I'd say is at about the same level.

And agree that Jolly has been hot and cold - though his "hot spots" in terms of around the ground influence have been so much better than anything last year that overall he's delivering a lot lot more.

The other key player neither of you mentioned was Goodes. Although the last month or so has seen him start to resemble the 2006 model, his best games this year have still only been at the level of his average games last year. If he can continue the upwards trajectory of his form improvement to the level we know he's capable of, that is one major reason to suggest the team can get better.

[swantastic]

Melchoeski is well in front of last year.

That's the most sensible thing you have said all year NMW. He's that far in front,he is over taking him self.

[Young Blood]

IMO Bevan is just too much of a liability come finals time. His form has been good and he can be a great tagger but he has the potential to give away silly free kicks and/or make mistakes at crucial times which, when playing as a backman, can cost you a game. Dempster is more relaible, has better skills and can play on a medium sized or small forward option. He is a perfect replacement for Malceski or Kennelly when they need a rest.

I'm not sure these two are competing for the same position. Has Dempster ever played on the opposition's small forward? I much prefer Dempster as a player, but in the absence of Crouch I think we need Bevan in the team against most sides.

[NMWBloods]

I'm more with MMG on those particular players. I think Kirk is having a super season. He's barely played an ordinary game all year - last week was his quietest second half in ages and was maybe down to the hit of the head on the cricket pitch - or possibly just the general lethargy of the Swans in the second half.

I think he was better in 2005 and 2006.

Micky O is exerting influence far wider across the ground than in past years.

Maybe, but that's perhaps because the midfield is so down. Still, he's a forward and needed to kick goals and he's down in that area.

O'Keefe I'd say is at about the same level.

Possibly.

And agree that Jolly has been hot and cold - though his "hot spots" in terms of around the ground influence have been so much better than anything last year that overall he's delivering a lot lot more.

I think his form has been more extreme than in the past.

The other key player neither of you mentioned was Goodes. Although the last month or so has seen him start to resemble the 2006 model, his best games this year have still only been at the level of his average games last year. If he can continue the upwards trajectory of his form improvement to the level we know he's capable of, that is one major reason to suggest the team can get better.

I deliberately didn't mention Goodes because although he's down on his 2006 form I think he's starting to show a bit more than 2005.

[NMWBloods]

Nothing like a bit of positivity...geez....no wonder I stopped posting here. Too many "I-like-to-call-myself-a-realist-but-really-I-am-an-angry-pessimist-who-loves-to-think-the-worst-because-the-suprise-in-things-turning-out-well-is-so-much-better-without-the-chance-that-I may-actually-be-dissappointed"

Longest name of a "type of person" ever...

So if we realistically don't think the side is as good as previously, and we have reasons why, we should still just say 'yes, we're looking great'...?

[connolly]

In your opinion, what is it?

Here's mine:

B: Ben Matthews, Leo Barry, Lewis Roberts-Thomson
HB: Tadhg Kennelly, Craig Bolton, Nick Malceski
C: Luke Ablett, Brett Kirk, Amon Buchanan
HF: Ryan O?Keefe, Michael O?Loughlin, Nic Fosdike
F: Adam Schneider, Barry Hall, Nick Davis
Foll: Darren Jolly, Jude Bolton, Adam Goodes
I/C: Peter Everitt, Jarrad McVeigh, Ted Richards, Sean Dempster

EMG: Tim Schmidt, Paul Bevan, Matthew Laidlaw

And I note:
- One of the best HB lines in the comp, great speed, skill and drive.
- One of the most potent F line in the comp when firing.
- One of best tap ruckman coming off the bench. Great tandem of Jolly and Everitt.
- Good medium-sized bodies off the bench and a vastly improved tagger (McVeigh) to relieve the likes of Ablett, Kirk and Matthews
- Richards over Schmidt on the basis of experience and flexibility. Richards can go forward or back while Schmidt merely provides another midfield option.
- IMO Bevan is just too much of a liability come finals time. His form has been good and he can be a great tagger but he has the potential to give away silly free kicks and/or make mistakes at crucial times which, when playing as a backman, can cost you a game. Dempster is more relaible, has better skills and can play on a medium sized or small forward option. He is a perfect replacement for Malceski or Kennelly when they need a rest.
- Laidlaw lacks game experience but come finals time you need runners so I'd rather him as an EMG over Grudy or Vogels. In any case, we have a number of guys in our starting 22 who can play F or B should we need to mix things up e.g. Richards, LRT, Goodes.

Thoughts?

Malceski gives away more free kicks than Bevo. Why on earth do Malceski and Kenneally need an interchange running back? They will be rested no more than 10 minutes per match. A luxury to have a replacement player for their interchange on the bench surely. Still the justifications for Bevos omission are become extremely weak. He has been in our best five players in the last two games and played well in the Subi pressure cooker. Why omit a player in his best form for two years?

[giant]

You are glowing of our half back line, forwards and ruckmen but glaring in their absense is our stellar midfield?? Perhaps therein lies the reason why we might struggle to win the flag.

Didn't hurt in 2005.

[reigning premier]

I don't think our team is as good as the previous two years.

Agree... BUT......

Hall is well down. No arguments here

O'Keefe is down a little. But still contributing

J Bolton is struggling badly. Yep. Needs to lift. Looked like he was improving last weekend against poor opposition

Kirk is down a little. Think he's going oK. Mainly because he's doing all the work he looks a little down

McVeigh well below his 2006 performance. Bet yo?r ass on that one. But maybe improving at the right time?

No Crouch. We do miss him

MOL is slightly down. Nope. Having his best season for a while. He's had to!

Buchanan has been down. Played very, very strongly on the weekend. Hope he's back!

Malceski is well in front of last year The only reason we've got as many wins as we have.

[NMWBloods]

I'd just note - when I say that certain players are down a little it doesn't mean they're not playing well, just that they're not playing as well as they were during some key stages in the past two years. Given how close the flag race is, if any critical players are down just a little from last year, that puts us behind relative to previous years.

As for MOL, his main job is to kick goals and that's well down. Possessions are much the same.

[hammo]

People are being very generous when they say O'Loughlin is performing better than in previous seasons.

I don't think an average of 1.7 goals per game is a good return for a full forward, whatever his influence across the ground. In 2005 he kicked 52 goals (averaging about 2 goals per game) so on that alone he's below previous seasons' output.

[liz]

Malceski is well in front of last year The only reason we've got as many wins as we have.

A big reason but not the only one. Spida's had a huge say in a couple of games that could have gone either way.

The ruck division as a whole is a mighty improvement on 2006 - and maybe modestly ahead of 2005. Jolly did a gallant job carrying the ruck almost on his own last season but gave us nothing around the ground. I don't think our current ruck duo is dominant at stoppages but both have been very important contributors right around the ground - and if Everitt's arrival has been a factor in helping Jolly become an all round better player, he's been a fantastic get.

[liz]

I don't think an average of 1.7 goals per game is a good return for a full forward

He's not really been playing as a FF though. Hall's been playing much closer to goal this season than in past ones - probably injury related. He's probably the closest we've had to a FF. Micky's role has been more akin to that which Davis generally plays.

[RogueSwan]

... He has been in our best five players in the last two games and played well in the Subi pressure cooker. Why omit a player in his best form for two years?

Take off the Bevan-coloured glasses Conolly.
Sure he has improved, but top five in the last two games? I s'pose we will have to wait until the TLM is compiled to see if that is the case. We all know the TLM is the bible.
Round 17: I would put:
B2 (surely he should be B1 by now), Schneiderman, Davis, B1, Captain, Hall, in front of Bevan. Even fossie and jolly could be argued as being better.

and against the hopeless Dees:
Schneider, Monty, Eski, pebbles, Spida, Goodes, fearless fosdike, .... then maybe Bevo in the lower reaches of the top ten if at all?