Bevan & Matthews

[Big Al]

They should both be used for target practice at Pucka.

Waste of tax payer funded ammo

[connolly]

But Bevan and Matthews don't do their jobs well. If they were good taggers then I'd have no problem at all with them, but they just aren't. It's no use tackling your opponent every time he gets the ball if more often than not you give them a free anyway (that's Bevan I'm talking about). The don't actually shut their opponents down. At least not as well as some players.

And I really don't see why people bash McVeigh. Sure, he isn't our number one midfielder, but he isn't a bad player by any means. His kicking lets him down too often, otherwise he would be a really good player, but as he is he's serviceable.

The stats make interesting comparisons. Bevo made 35 tackles last year and gave away 18 free kicks; Goodesy made 77 tackles and gave away 34 free kicks; (almost the same ratio of free kicks against to tackles) Big Barry made 21 tackles and gave away 41 free kicks (no comparison - much worse and he's a forward). I didn't bother looking up the comparative stats on Mc Veigh. I couldn't be arsed. He doesn't try, why should I.

[goswannie14]

Waste of tax payer funded ammo

It saves shooting those little yellow and black targets though.

[Nico]

The stats make interesting comparisons. Bevo made 35 tackles last year and gave away 18 free kicks; Goodesy made 77 tackles and gave away 34 free kicks; (almost the same ratio of free kicks against to tackles) Big Barry made 21 tackles and gave away 41 free kicks (no comparison - much worse and he's a forward). I didn't bother looking up the comparative stats on Mc Veigh. I couldn't be arsed. He doesn't try, why should I.

What that tells us is that Bevan doesn't make as many tackles as some people think. Main reason being he is slow and doesn't get to enough contests.

Spends a lot of time wandering around looking for his man.

Wh..wh...where did he go Doc.

[BSA5]

The stats make interesting comparisons. Bevo made 35 tackles last year and gave away 18 free kicks; Goodesy made 77 tackles and gave away 34 free kicks; (almost the same ratio of free kicks against to tackles) Big Barry made 21 tackles and gave away 41 free kicks (no comparison - much worse and he's a forward). I didn't bother looking up the comparative stats on Mc Veigh. I couldn't be arsed. He doesn't try, why should I.

Big Barry didn't give away his frees making tackles though, and neither did Goodes, and that is the issue we are talking about.

[ernie koala]

Bevan - out.....Jack - in
McVeigh - out....Bird - in
Mathews - out..... Anyone - in

[BSA5]

Bevan - out.....Jack - in
McVeigh - out....Bird - in
Mathews - out..... Anyone - in

Try:

Bevan - out....Jack - in
Matthews - out....Bird - in
McVeigh - moved forward
Grundy - out....White - in.

[Nolie]

Every team needs a couple of donkeys. More over, they need a couple of guys that are going to sacrifice their game, put the saddle on an opponent and shut them down. No glory for them. No stats. And certainly no recognition of their efforts from the supports. That's what Bevan and Mathews do. And to a lesser extent, Crouch. They perform a nessecary, unappreciated task. They do their inglorious task with relative efficiency IMHO.

My point is, How people can sledge these two when we have the likes of McVeigh running around is beyond me???? McVeigh is supposed to be a "play maker" and "ball winner". When he starts doing his job as well as Bevan and Mathews do theirs, then we can start looking at others. Until then, let's just concentrate on where the problems are, not just where they are perceived to be.

This is a very insightful well thought out post which gives a good bit of balance to the Bevan/Mathews bashers. This is why I love RWO. Well done.

[Legs Akimbo]

Analyse this...

Columns show:
% efficiency
% Standard deviation of efficiency (i.e. 2/3 of efficiency across games is +/-)
Contested possessions
Uncontested possessions
Total possessions
% contested

Villains	% eff	Std	Con	Unc	TP	%C 
						
B. Mathews	77%	11%	81	223	304	27%
J. McVeigh	76%	9%	92	230	322	29%
J Bolton	74%	11%	201	223	424	47%
P.Bevan		83%	11%	55	151	206	27%
A. Buchanon	74%	10%	86	216	302	28%

Heroes						

N. Malceski	83%	10%	95	344	439	22%
A. Goodes	74%	11%	195	264	459	42%
N. Davis	80%	9%	73	142	215	34%
T Kennelly	86%	9%	61	151	212	29%

Source: Herald Sun

P.S. what it doesn't tell you - game time, penetration of kicks, quality of uncontested possessions, creativity

[connolly]

Analyse this...

Columns show:
% efficiency
% Standard deviation of efficiency (i.e. 2/3 of efficiency across games is +/-)
Contested possessions
Uncontested possessions
Total possessions
% contested

Villains	% eff	Std	Con	Unc	TP	%C 
						
B. Mathews	77%	11%	81	223	304	27%
J. McVeigh	76%	9%	92	230	322	29%
J Bolton	74%	11%	201	223	424	47%
P.Bevan		83%	11%	55	151	206	27%
A. Buchanon	74%	10%	86	216	302	28%

Heroes						

N. Malceski	83%	10%	95	344	439	22%
A. Goodes	74%	11%	195	264	459	42%
N. Davis	80%	9%	73	142	215	34%
T Kennelly	86%	9%	61	151	212	29%

Source: Herald Sun

P.S. what it doesn't tell you - game time, penetration of kicks, quality of uncontested possessions, creativity

The Hun has Bevo's efficiency rating bang on with the Eski. Despite the fact its an awful rag on that point I'll rest my case.

[ScottH]

The Hun has Bevo's efficiency rating bang on with the Eski. Despite the fact its an awful rag on that point I'll rest my case.

The stats are usually from Champion Data, so you can't blame the HS for that.

The fact that 3 of the 4 Heroes have a superb natural talent, it is always hard to compare these types with lesser players.

[Legs Akimbo]

Villains % eff Std Con Unc TP %C

B. Mathews 77% 11% 81 223 304 27%
J. McVeigh 76% 9% 92 230 322 29%
J Bolton 74% 11% 201 223 424 47%
P.Bevan 83% 11% 55 151 206 27%
A. Buchanon 74% 10% 86 216 302 28%

Heroes

N. Malceski 83% 10% 95 344 439 22%
A. Goodes 74% 11% 195 264 459 42%
N. Davis 80% 9% 73 142 215 34%
T Kennelly 86% 9% 61 151 212 29%

Assuming the data is correct...

Matthews: Can function effectively as a stopper (something not considered here), but for a guy enjoying 75% uncontested footy, screwing it up a quarte of the time and having too many bad days, is not good enough.

McVeigh: Slightly better than Mathews (and fair bit more consistent)

Bolton: The comparison against Goodes is interesting and remarkably similar. What is doesn't show is that goodes takes more contested marks, kicks more goals and more often sets up important passages of play (all anecdotal of course).

Bevan: Not as bad as many think, particularly his disposal, but considering his role, needs to win more contested footy.

Buchanan: Disposal a problem. Compare to Bolton. Winning half as much contested footy but making just as many mistakes. Not good enough and why I think he was dropped last year. I've said it before, his kicking technique is atrocious. Kicks the ball outside the line of his body to create angles, which can look dandy when it comes off, but very unreliable (try it and see).

Malceski: We are going to miss him heaps, particularly when you take into account his penetration. 83% hits the target and does so over distances the other guys cannot match. Let's hope Mattner can step up.

Davis: Quality. I think his key issue is he doesn't get enough of the ball / get to enough contests.

Kennelly: Incredible to think the guy with the most effective disposal, hadn't picked up a footy until he was an adult.

[NMWBloods]

Nice work Legs...

Bolton: The comparison against Goodes is interesting and remarkably similar. What is doesn't show is that goodes takes more contested marks, kicks more goals and more often sets up important passages of play (all anecdotal of course).

Yes - the critical difference is that Goodes stuffs up trying to make things happen. That will happen but when it works he creates. Bolton rarely creates.

Bevan: Not as bad as many think, particularly his disposal, but considering his role, needs to win more contested footy.

His high effectiveness more reflects that a lot of his disposals are dinky little 15m passes when in the clear.

Buchanan: Disposal a problem. Compare to Bolton. Winning half as much contested footy but making just as many mistakes. Not good enough and why I think he was dropped last year. I've said it before, his kicking technique is atrocious. Kicks the ball outside the line of his body to create angles, which can look dandy when it comes off, but very unreliable (try it and see).

His disposal has always been an issue, especially when kicking for goals, but most times he makes up for that by being one of the most creative players in our team.

Malceski: We are going to miss him heaps, particularly when you take into account his penetration. 83% hits the target and does so over distances the other guys cannot match. Let's hope Mattner can step up.

We will definitely miss him. I have no doubt Mattner can step up but the problem for us is we needed both of them.

Davis: Quality. I think his key issue is he doesn't get enough of the ball / get to enough contests.

Yep, and it also shows how much contested ball he gets, contrary to many complaints about him laying back and looking for the easy disposal.

Kennelly: Incredible to think the guy with the most effective disposal, hadn't picked up a footy until he was an adult.

We missed him a lot last year - hope his knee is right this year.

[ernie koala]

Try:

Bevan - out....Jack - in
Matthews - out....Bird - in
McVeigh - moved forward
Grundy - out....White - in.

I don't fancy Bird as a back pocket. He looks like a natural onballer. who rests in the forward pocket.
As for Mr McVeigh......he can't, or won't, tackle, he constantly turns the ball over. And he never ,ever, goes hard at the ball or the man....Which makes him.... a fabulous member of the 'fab trio'.

[BSA5]

I don't fancy Bird as a back pocket. He looks like a natural onballer. who rests in the forward pocket.

Sorry, I didn't mean Bird should be in the back pocket. Just that Matthews should go out, and Bird should come in.

As for Mr McVeigh......he can't, or won't, tackle, he constantly turns the ball over. And he never ,ever, goes hard at the ball or the man....Which makes him.... a fabulous member of the 'fab trio'.

McVeigh averages 2.3 tackles per game, respectable given his role. His disposal is poor, I'll give you that, but that problem would largely be negated by him playing in the pocket. And I don't think it's fair to say he never goes hard at the ball or the man. That isn't really his role. We have enough guys who do that, like Kirk, Ablett and Bolton. I say play him in the forward line, and see how he goes. One thing I've noticed about McVeigh, especially over 2007, was that whenever he moved forward he would almost invariably pop up and kick a goal, sometimes two. It didn't happen enough for my liking, but with Scheider gone that leaves a hole for McVeigh to fill.