Bevan & Matthews

[goswannie14]

McVeigh averages 2.3 tackles per game, respectable given his role. His disposal is poor, I'll give you that, but that problem would largely be negated by him playing in the pocket. And I don't think it's fair to say he never goes hard at the ball or the man. That isn't really his role. We have enough guys who do that, like Kirk, Ablett and Bolton. I say play him in the forward line, and see how he goes. One thing I've noticed about McVeigh, especially over 2007, was that whenever he moved forward he would almost invariably pop up and kick a goal, sometimes two. It didn't happen enough for my liking, but with Scheider gone that leaves a hole for McVeigh to fill.

This is the most sensible post you have made yet BS.

Too many on this board want every player to be an in and under. As you said, we have enough of those type of players. We need those who can then receive it and do something with it. I'm not saying McVeigh is the complete answer, but that is the role that he should be, and usually is playing.

[BSA5]

This is the most sensible post you have made yet BS.

Too many on this board want every player to be an in and under. As you said, we have enough of those type of players. We need those who can then receive it and do something with it. I'm not saying McVeigh is the complete answer, but that is the role that he should be, and usually is playing.

Right. The problem is that as a midfielder, what he does with it usually requires good disposal. That isn't a strength of his. Therefore, he should play as a small forward. There, his poor disposal wouldn't be so much of a problem. McVeigh's low efficiency with his disposals is not really due to poor accuracy, but lack of penetration with his kicks. In other words, he kicks lollipops which put pressure on his teammates. You don't need penetration when kicking at goal. All you need is half-decent accuracy, and McVeigh can handle that.

[ernie koala]

Sorry, I didn't mean Bird should be in the back pocket. Just that Matthews should go out, and Bird should come in.



McVeigh averages 2.3 tackles per game, respectable given his role. His disposal is poor, I'll give you that, but that problem would largely be negated by him playing in the pocket. And I don't think it's fair to say he never goes hard at the ball or the man. That isn't really his role. We have enough guys who do that, like Kirk, Ablett and Bolton.with Scheider gone that leaves a hole for McVeigh to fill.

Those tackles will be standing over an already tackled player. He tackles like a broken turnstyle.
Going hard at the ball, and hard at the man, is part of every players role , it does not necessarily mean being 'in and under'.
For example: Stuart Maxfield was hard at the ball and the man, he was not an 'in and under' player, he was a receiver who would go and get his own ball, or make the tackle, when the situation arose. To suggest that only 'in and under' players should be hard at it, is wrong. That sounds more like the toothless tigers philosophy.

[BSA5]

Those tackles will be standing over an already tackled player. He tackles like a broken turnstyle.
Going hard at the ball, and hard at the man, is part of every players role , it does not necessarily mean being 'in and under'.
For example: Stuart Maxfield was hard at the ball and the man, he was not an 'in and under' player, he was a receiver who would go and get his own ball, or make the tackle, when the situation arose. To suggest that only 'in and under' players should be hard at it, is wrong. That sounds more like the toothless tigers philosophy.

Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world, every player would be hard at the man. All I'm saying is that given McVeigh's role, it isn't terrible. Yes, he could be harder at the ball and man, but the fact that he's not isn't as big a deal as it would be for some other players. See?

[connolly]

What that tells us is that Bevan doesn't make as many tackles as some people think. Main reason being he is slow and doesn't get to enough contests.

Spends a lot of time wandering around looking for his man.

Wh..wh...where did he go Doc.

Defenders tackle rates. Craig Bolton made 40 tackles (2007) at an average of 1.7 per game, Leaping made 40 at an average of 2.0, Eski made 60 at an average of 2.7 and Bevo made 40 at an average of 2.0. Benny made a staggering 69 tackles at an average of 2.9. Either perceptions or stastics lie.

[connolly]

Apologies my post was wrong. Bevo made 35 tackles at an average of 2.1 per game.

[Robbo]

We should give him a chance to improve those numbers. Send him to the Canberra amateurs to play against the teachers and corner store attendants.

[AnnieH]

Sorry, I didn't mean Bird should be in the back pocket. Just that Matthews should go out, and Bird should come in.



McVeigh averages 2.3 tackles per game, respectable given his role. His disposal is poor, I'll give you that, but that problem would largely be negated by him playing in the pocket. And I don't think it's fair to say he never goes hard at the ball or the man. That isn't really his role. We have enough guys who do that, like Kirk, Ablett and Bolton. I say play him in the forward line, and see how he goes. One thing I've noticed about McVeigh, especially over 2007, was that whenever he moved forward he would almost invariably pop up and kick a goal, sometimes two. It didn't happen enough for my liking, but with Scheider gone that leaves a hole for McVeigh to fill.

He seemed to play very well up forward against Port in the practice match.

[graemed]

Have enjoyed the debate especially those arguments backed by stats wrt the various "villians v heroes".

I realise that Malceski will be a loss but I feel that his role last year was exaggerated in importance due to the loss of Kennelly and LRT. Tadgh for his obvious ability to break lines feed off the football with intellegence and depth and be creative when the need demanded. LRT for the simple reason that it will release Craig Bolton to take on a similar role to Tadgh.

Mattner's inclusion is likely to more important to the midfield than defence and I think Roos plans to use him across the centre with him falling back in defence to generate a loose target.

Bevan is most effective when he has a licence to counterattack as he is a surprisingly accurate kick for goal. He is disciplined, hard at it and hard bodied. In finals these qualities cannot be undervalued. He will be under pressure to remain in the team but has performed well under similar pressure in the past, e.g. prelim final v St Kilda 2005.

Matthews has less speed, is prone to make poor decisions (slowly) and has significant disposal issues. He can "get the ball" but usually uncontested because oppposition teams do not usually mark him too closely which can be frustrating especially for swans supporters. I cannot believe that with the pressure from the younger crew he will maintain his place this year.

[BSA5]

Defenders tackle rates. Craig Bolton made 40 tackles (2007) at an average of 1.7 per game, Leaping made 40 at an average of 2.0, Eski made 60 at an average of 2.7 and Bevo made 40 at an average of 2.0. Benny made a staggering 69 tackles at an average of 2.9. Either perceptions or stastics lie.

Craig Bolton is a tall defender. He's a spoiler, not a tackler. Same with Leo. Malceski plays in defense, but he isn't a defender. You can't just group a bunch of players together because they play in a similar part of the ground. Bevan and Mathews are being paid to tackle. They should be up around 4 tackles a game at least.

[bennyfrou]

I think McVeigh should play the small forward role, but at which player's expense????

[BSA5]

I think McVeigh should play the small forward role, but at which player's expense????

Schneider's, of course. With Schneider no longer at the Swans, that leaves a space for McVeigh to slot in.

[Nico]

Have enjoyed the debate especially those arguments backed by stats wrt the various "villians v heroes".

I realise that Malceski will be a loss but I feel that his role last year was exaggerated in importance due to the loss of Kennelly and LRT. Tadhg for his obvious ability to break lines feed off the football with intellegence and depth and be creative when the need demanded. LRT for the simple reason that it will release Craig Bolton to take on a similar role to Tadhg.

Mattner's inclusion is likely to more important to the midfield than defence and I think Roos plans to use him across the centre with him falling back in defence to generate a loose target.

Bevan is most effective when he has a licence to counterattack as he is a surprisingly accurate kick for goal. He is disciplined, hard at it and hard bodied. In finals these qualities cannot be undervalued. He will be under pressure to remain in the team but has performed well under similar pressure in the past, e.g. prelim final v St Kilda 2005.

Matthews has less speed, is prone to make poor decisions (slowly) and has significant disposal issues. He can "get the ball" but usually uncontested because oppposition teams do not usually mark him too closely which can be frustrating especially for swans supporters. I cannot believe that with the pressure from the younger crew he will maintain his place this year.

Gee I must look at the 2005 Prelim again. Bevan was just awful from memory and that was when I decided, after a number of poor games leading up to that game, to jump right off him. I was stunned the next week when he got a game in the GF, and I recall many people saying he had to be luckiest bloke ever to hang a Premiership Medallion around his neck.

Duck.... here comes Connolly.

[573v30]

Put Bevan and Mathews in the Reserves. Anyone disagree?

[TheGrimReaper]

Agreed and promote D O'Keefe and Jack into the senior team.