Matthew Laidlaw

[swantastic]

You're judging Laidlaw based on one game in the pouring rain.

If you compare what he and O'Dwyer delivered over last year in the twos, you wouldn't be mentioning them in the same breath. Sure, there is scope for someone to have suddenly improved but I am not convinced that O'Dwyer is anywhere close to "knocking on the door" quite yet.

Do you agree Liz that players can look hot in the ressies but when they hit the big time they fold?

Well it might be the reverse with O'Dwyer he might be good in the ressies but he might learn quicker from the seniors and come along a lot quicker, than say a Laidlaw.

Your right tho you cant judge Laidlaw on one @@@@ty geelong game(weather) even tho he did miss an easy shot after the commentators gave him big raps.

[2005]

Think that we have to settle a little on Matthew ODwyer.
The kid was delisted at the end of 2007 then re drafted.

Sure played well against the Hawks and did some nice things on Saturday though the real stuff is yet to start.
The great thing though to get excited about is that there is pressure now coming to those in the ones. Jude , Ben Matthews , Paul Bevan and the like will have to perform otherwise guys like ODwyer ,Bird ,Laidlaw, Moore will be pushing for selection and look capable of playing senior footy.
As the majority have stated NAB games and practice matches mean very little
and we never remenmber them. Whats good though is to see kids like Matty getting game time with the big boys and looking on what to improve on

[Wazza]

Mattner played in the Midfield/Centre with the Crows until Craig wanted him to play defensive HB role. His role in the Crows defense was very structured as opposed to the running offensive role he would play in our defense.

In saying that he could easily play on a wing or in the midfield, this would allow us to slot Cheese onto a HBF.

Laidlaw should be given a chance this year and injuries could decide the oppourtunities, as I cant see Roo's leaving out Mathews Bolton McVeigh or Bevan.

Throw in Crouch and there doesnt appear to be too many places for new faces.

Cheers

Waz

[Nico]

People keep bringing up Leo as a HB flanker. He is a full back, fullstop. He was a miserable failure as a forward and anywhere else they wanted to put him.

He had no idea as a forward of how to read the ball coming into the forward line or where to position himself, and he appears only to be able to play from the narrow area around full back and take the handpass to run off. His run out of the backline fools people into thinking that if he moves up the ground 40-50 metres the same will happen. It wont because he needs to worry about too many other factors. I bet if you asked his wife if he could remember more than one item he had to get from the supermarket without a list, she would say, no way.

Leave him where he is until he gives it away, where he only has one player on his mind. He is in the last year or 2 of his career and you cant teach old dogs new tricks.

[Nico]

Mattner played in the Midfield/Centre with the Crows until Craig wanted him to play defensive HB role. His role in the Crows defense was very structured as opposed to the running offensive role he would play in our defense.

In saying that he could easily play on a wing or in the midfield, this would allow us to slot Cheese onto a HBF.

Laidlaw should be given a chance this year and injuries could decide the oppourtunities, as I cant see Roo's leaving out Mathews Bolton McVeigh or Bevan.

Throw in Crouch and there doesnt appear to be too many places for new faces.

Cheers

Waz

That's a worry Wazza, you would hope we might introduce some pace and skill into the side and replace some of those very slow players who really let us down last year. I have just developed a bad case of the shakes after reading your post.

[2005]

People keep bringing up Leo as a HB flanker. He is a full back, fullstop. He was a miserable failure as a forward and anywhere else they wanted to put him.

He had no idea as a forward of how to read the ball coming into the forward line or where to position himself, and he appears only to be able to play from the narrow area around full back and take the handpass to run off. His run out of the backline fools people into thinking that if he moves up the ground 40-50 metres the same will happen. It wont because he needs to worry about too many other factors. I bet if you asked his wife if he could remember more than one item he had to get from the supermarket without a list, she would say, no way.

Leave him where he is until he gives it away, where he only has one player on his mind. He is in the last year or 2 of his career and you cant teach old dogs new tricks.

Totally disagree Nico.
Leo is far smarter than you give him credit for .
Wasnt a forward and made himself into a creditable & courageous Full Back playing against far stronger bigger opponents . Still a handy at best Full Back though would make a handy HBF no worries as he is able to create and run , yeah sure frightens the @@@ out you when he is baulking and bouncing though he can give us that different aspect coming out of defence .Backs himself to kick a running goal and has the endurance to play in that position
All the same factors apply when playing down back

[liz]

Adding onto 2005's comments...

Barry went back to defence at the start of 2001, I think it was. Dunkley was our fullback at that time, with Schauble mostly playing at CHB. When Dunks retired at the end of 2002, Schauble moved back a line and, injury permitting, was the closest thing we had to a fullback for 2003 and 2004. He didn't play much at all in 2005 and it was then that Leo really took over the mantle as full-time FB. Up to that point, he'd been an occasional fill-in when Schaubs was injured but had been predominantly played as a half-back flanker / come third "tall" defender.

Even while he's nominally been our FB, he's being playing a hybrid flanker / KPP role. If you just judged him on his ability to stop the much bigger, taller key forwards he'd barely be judged adequate, let alone have won himself AA honours. But his ability to perform adequately as a defender while imposing his advantage when the ball hits the deck and is being rebounded from defence is what has turned him into a very effective player. I don't see any reason why he can't revert to something more like a HBF'er role if someone else emerges to play as a key back man.

[TheGrimReaper]

SO when I do his profile at RWOwiki, what should I class him as?

A Tall Defender or....

Medium Defender?

Technically he is a medium defender being only 184cm but plays tall.

[Nico]

Adding onto 2005's comments...

Barry went back to defence at the start of 2001, I think it was. Dunkley was our fullback at that time, with Schauble mostly playing at CHB. When Dunks retired at the end of 2002, Schauble moved back a line and, injury permitting, was the closest thing we had to a fullback for 2003 and 2004. He didn't play much at all in 2005 and it was then that Leo really took over the mantle as full-time FB. Up to that point, he'd been an occasional fill-in when Schaubs was injured but had been predominantly played as a half-back flanker / come third "tall" defender.

Even while he's nominally been our FB, he's being playing a hybrid flanker / KPP role. If you just judged him on his ability to stop the much bigger, taller key forwards he'd barely be judged adequate, let alone have won himself AA honours. But his ability to perform adequately as a defender while imposing his advantage when the ball hits the deck and is being rebounded from defence is what has turned him into a very effective player. I don't see any reason why he can't revert to something more like a HBF'er role if someone else emerges to play as a key back man.

I'll stick to my guns on this one. I remember watching him play some awful games off half back and he would continually kick into players coming towards him. The opposition would run him to his left on the boundary (why he was played that side of the ground is beyond me, but I reckon Eade was coach) so he was always coralled and just disposed of the footy however he could. I would say he was not much of a team player back then. I believe since he has gone back to FB he has developed the sidestep stuff he does and became almost paranoid about running in a straight line.

Credit to him because I reckon it prolonged his time with us and became a better than serviceable player. I was one of his greatest critics when I first started on RWO but he really has reinvented himself in the FB role and I will probably still curse and not watch when he goes on one of his suicide runs.

[liz]

Why not learn the ropes from the best in the business,and have two players in that role.

Goodsey and a Mini-Goodsey i wouldnt say no to that and i'm positive that 90%+ of supporters wouldnt say no.

Why not? Partly because I don't think a team really needs or can handle two players playing that kind of role, unless they are both exceptional. But mostly because I don't think Barlow will ever learn to play that role by simply playing that role. As I pointed out, Goodes has played a number of far more structured roles within the team and they've surely contributed to the way he now reads the game and understands where it is going, which is why he knows where to run. He also has the assuredness about his skills that means he makes very quick decisions when he gets to wherever he's run - by which I don't mean his skills are exemplary but he at least makes decisions quickly and confidently. It is completely unrealistic to expect Barlow to have that level of assuredness at barely 21 years of age and with a limited football background behind him.

Do you agree Liz that players can look hot in the ressies but when they hit the big time they fold?

Well it might be the reverse with O'Dwyer he might be good in the ressies but he might learn quicker from the seniors and come along a lot quicker, than say a Laidlaw.

Your right tho you cant judge Laidlaw on one @@@@ty geelong game(weather) even tho he did miss an easy shot after the commentators gave him big raps.

He might, anything is possible, but I've seen nothing to suggest to me he will.

Players like O'Dwyer (and Jon Simpkin) are capable of a few eye-catching things that initially have you licking your lips but when you watch them for a bit longer you realise that they have limited defensive instincts - ie are apt to pay absolutely no attention to their opponents, and burn far far too high a percentage of their disposals. There is no reason to believe that O'Dwyer will suddenly learn to do things like that at senior level if he can't do them in the Canberra league. Clearly the Swans think he has the basic ability and the work ethic required to address his current limitations or they wouldn't have redrafted him. But he's still got to be regarded as very much a longshot ever to play a game of senior footy, let alone debut in round 1.

I do think that there are some players who may not completely dominate at reserves grade but can adapt quite quickly to senior footy. I suspect Moore would if given enough opportunities to play a role he's suited to. Despite winning the Canberra league's B&F last year he never dominated games in the way that Malceski and McVeigh did. But I suspect he'll be able to make the adjustment to the speed and intensity without too much trouble.

Alternatively, if you have a highly skilled 'outside' player who just doesn't get enough ball at reserves level, they may well still slot into senior football where they have better quality team mates able to feed them good quality ball and help them to make space. It is possible that someone like Dan O'Keefe might fit into this category, although he will need to lift his intensity significantly before he gets a look in.

O'Dwyer has pace but he's by no means a highly skilled player - not at the moment anyway. And I think people are forgetting that the two games where he's shown a few mixed glimpses of what he might be able to do were barely better than reserves grade standard.

[ernie koala]

I do think that there are some players who may not completely dominate at reserves grade but can adapt quite quickly to senior footy. I suspect Moore would if given enough opportunities to play a role he's suited to. Despite winning the Canberra league's B&F last year he never dominated games in the way that Malceski and McVeigh did. But I suspect he'll be able to make the adjustment to the speed and intensity.

I agree, Moore is a natural footballer with great instincts and good hands. He needs to be given the chance to cement a spot. ie 3-4 games in a row, on the field...not warming the bench.

[originalswan]

I agree, Moore is a natural footballer with great instincts and good hands. He needs to be given the chance to cement a spot. ie 3-4 games in a row, on the field...not warming the bench.

I also liked the looks of Moore when he was given an opportunity a couple of years ago.

The problem is that there is simply an abundance of players (around his age) who could play in a similar position, that seem to be at the front of the queue, eg. Schmidt, Jack, McVeigh (only a year or two older), Laidlaw and possibly D. O'Keefe who was talked up last year but generally seems forgotten this year.

[liz]

The problem is that there is simply an abundance of players (around his age) who could play in a similar position, that seem to be at the front of the queue, eg. Schmidt, Jack, McVeigh (only a year or two older), Laidlaw and possibly D. O'Keefe who was talked up last year but generally seems forgotten this year.

I think these guys are best suited to different types of roles so they're not necessarily in direct competition to each other (except initially to get that '22nd picked, spare-parts-on-the-bench role).

O'Keefe I see in the same bracket as McVeigh in the sense I suspect they'll both play their best footy as a mid-sized creative forward, not crumbers exactly but like shorter versions of O'Loughlin (and hence without the contested marking ability that he had (has) at his best).

Laidlaw I think will make his mark as a Matthew Nicks type, either on a HF or HB flank. He has very good pace but it is probably "straight line" pace ala Dempster, rather than weave and prop / explosive pace like Kerr, for instance. He is also a superb overhead mark for his size, as Nicks was, and a decent enough kick at goal from set shots, and gets good penetration on his kicks - though not in the Malceski class.

Moore is probably an obvious understudy for someone like Monty. Goodish at extracting the ball from stoppages, prepared to run and carry but without express pace, and creative in setting up opportunities from just outside 50m.

The immediate threat to both Moore and Schmidt is the rapid emergence of Bird. It looks like Roos is going to be willing to throw Bird straight into the centre, at least for short stints. And that is where Moore and Schmidt will be looking to make their mark too. But I can't see all three fitting into the midfield in the short term because none is express pace. Especially while we stll have Kirk and Jude as primary centre-bounce starters. I am not sure that Schmidt and Moore both have enough time left to hang around on the outer waiting for those two to retire. I suspect one will establish himself and the other will have to look elsewhere for opportunities within the relatively short term.

Jack brings something different to the table because of his pace and his willingness to duck and weave. He's not a pure outside midfielder because he can win the hard ball too, but he doesn't seem to have the pure extraction skills of a Mitchell, Black, Harris or Kirk, whereas Bird or Schmidt or possibly Moore may prove to have this ability. Old Royboy has made the point that throwing Jack into defence as a small defender last year wasn't really fair on him because it's not a role he's played much in Canberra. But Crouch is the obvious comparison player so he may need to learn to play that role if he's to establish himself as a senior regular. And like Crouch, he'll need to combine defensive / run-with nous with the ability to break-lines offensively. Streaming out of defence may be the best way he can use his pace to good effect.

It's a good mix of younger smalls that the club has pulled together, with complementary attributes. The numbers game tells us that they won't all get enough opportunities to establish themselves though.

And I'm looking forward especially to getting a glimpse of Veszpremi when the season gets under way to see what he brings to the table. I'm hoping he'll prove to be another genuine midfield line-breaker, but more in the bash-and-crash Maxfield mould.

[BSA5]

Ablett's not really a midfielder - doesn't get a lot of the ball and doesn't use it particularly well.
J Bolton is on his last legs.
The thinking (I suspect) was for Malceski and/or Mattner to play on the wing - hence the reference to wingers.
Fosdike is unlikely to develop a lot at 28 years of age!
Mattner started his career in the midfield - only went back a couple of years ago.

Ablett is a defensive midfielder. He's a tagger, and a bloody good one at that. He is crucial to our side.

Yep, Bolton is just about on his last legs, but he still has a bit to offer. He's still in our best 22. That may change over the course of the year, but for the moment, he still deserves a spot.

Players are always developing, no matter how old they are. Not necessarily getting better, but changing. I reckon Fosdike is at the point where he can be given a starting position. I actually haven't understood Roos' thinking, so often playing him off the bench.

As for Mattner, I didn't know that, but that doesn't change anything. So he can play both in the midfield and in the backline. I reckon Bird has a better claim to a spot in the side than Laidlaw, and probably O'Dwyer as well (I'm really trying not to get ahead of myself in regards to O'Dwyer, and remind myself that I've only seen him play one game, but I'm just really excited by him!).

[originalswan]

Ablett's a reasonable tagger, but not much in attack.

J Bolton is arguably not in our best 22.

I'm not sure why Fosdike would suddenly be starting when he hasn't been for the past couple of years. He used to start.

How does Bird have a better claim - from a couple of pre-season matches? Is Mattner in midfield and Laidlaw at HB better than Bird in midfield and Mattner at HB?

And O'Dwyer after one game? Surely not ready?

I think that people are being a little too quick in dismissing Jude. He did play under some injury restrictions last year and can only improve from having a full pre season.