Finals System tired and in need of a revamp?

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  • CureTheSane
    Carpe Noctem
    • Jan 2003
    • 5032

    Finals System tired and in need of a revamp?

    I saw the other thread on a final 12 teams which is just ridiculous.

    Lately though I have been thinking about Hayden and Gilchrist's comment that the tri-series is a tired format.
    I tend to agree with them.
    20/20 has had an impact, and so has the renewed interest in tests.
    The World Cup is still important, but there format there is different to the tri-series.

    Anyway, I have thought for a while that making the finals isn't any real achievement, especially for teams like the Swans who are run well.
    My angle is that well run teams who have the proper medical support and are not in financial hardship etc are able to put all time and effort into winning games and as a whole unit should be able to finish in the TOP HALF of the competition.

    So we get through a full 22 round season and are left with 4 weeks of finals to pick the best.
    I am thinking that each opposition team is played once over 15 weeks.
    After this the competition is split into two halves.
    Top 8
    Bottom 8

    Let's take the Top 8 competition
    Over the next 7 weeks the teams in the top 8 play each other once, creating a new ladder.
    The two teams who end up on the top of the new ladder play in the Grand final.

    Same with the Bottom 8 competition, they all play and end up with a "best of the rest" winner.

    This finals system would also shorten the season by 2 weeks overall.

    This is all just a dumb idea I pondered when thinking about the competition as a whole.
    The point of the thread is to discuss whether the current system of finals is as relevant as it used to be.

    The complaints I have are as follows.
    1. finishing in the finals is not massive achievement, it is only finishing in the top half of the comp.
    2. ideally teams would play each other once or twice in the H&A season eliminating the 'season draw'
    3. 22 rounds is a long time to have to play to make the finals and I find myself not be as concerned as I should be with a loss, so long as the team is traveling well and appears likely to make the finals.
    The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.
  • Robbo
    On the Rookie List
    • May 2007
    • 2946

    #2
    The main thing is whether the current finals system is fair, not whether it's entertaining.

    I definitely think it's fair, so no need to go changing it.

    Comment

    • CureTheSane
      Carpe Noctem
      • Jan 2003
      • 5032

      #3
      Originally posted by Robbo
      The main thing is whether the current finals system is fair, not whether it's entertaining.

      I definitely think it's fair, so no need to go changing it.
      Firstly, the finals are the culmination of the seasons play.
      We need to assess whether the season in itself is entertaining.

      I think the H & A season is not as exciting as it used to be.
      Maybe because there are so many interstate teams, maybe because the Swans are never on FTA tv any more.

      Sure, the finals themselves are interesting, but could the finals and whole season be more interesting?

      As to whether it's fair, well there are many many arguments as to why it's not fair.
      Too much interstate travel by some teams and not enough by others.
      "Blockbuster games" being planned regardless on teams form.
      Playing 7 teams twice only and the selection procedure for those seven teams.

      Tome, you can only say "no point in changing it" if you have considered and compared all available options.

      Remember the 'rebel Packer game'?
      Compare our comp to soccer where the teams vie to make it into the premier league.
      Or compare it to the Ice Hockey play offs.
      There are many different formats for sport out there, and they are worth some thought.
      The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

      Comment

      • ScottH
        It's Goodes to cheer!!
        • Sep 2003
        • 23665

        #4
        2 leagues. 1 Top 8, 1 bottom 8.
        Play each other twice.
        Same finals format currently used.

        Winner of GF (Top 8) = Premiers.
        Loser of GF (Bottom 8) gets promoted to top 8 for team 8 in the top 8, who gets relegated.

        Comment

        • goswannie14
          Leadership Group
          • Sep 2005
          • 11166

          #5
          My thoughts.

          Extend h&a season to 30 weeks, allowing each team to play the others twice.

          Final 8 split into 2 groups consisting of teams finishing 1, 3, 5 & 7 and 2, 4, 6 & 8.

          WEEK 1
          Game A, 1 v 3 Winner to week 3
          Game B, 2 v 4 Winner to week 3
          Game C, 5 v 7 Loser eliminated
          Game D, 6 v 8 Loser eliminated

          WEEK 2
          Game E, loser A v winner C
          Game F, loser B v winner D

          WEEK 3
          Game G, winner A v winner E
          Game H, winner B v winner F

          WEEK 4
          Grand Final winner G v winner H
          Does God believe in Atheists?

          Comment

          • swantastic
            Veterans List
            • Jan 2006
            • 7275

            #6
            12 teams in the finals, Demetriou has finally gone friggen mad that is the stupidest idea the AFL have come up with.

            The top 4 teams getting a rest in the first week,then why even have a top 12
            Now this is a thread that i would expect on the ego -centric, wank session that is redandwhiteonline.com...

            Comment

            • goswannie14
              Leadership Group
              • Sep 2005
              • 11166

              #7
              Originally posted by swantastic
              12 teams in the finals, Demetriou has finally gone friggen mad that is the stupidest idea the AFL have come up with.

              The top 4 teams getting a rest in the first week,then why even have a top 12
              It was Mark Williams' idea. Not the AFL.
              Does God believe in Atheists?

              Comment

              • swantastic
                Veterans List
                • Jan 2006
                • 7275

                #8
                Originally posted by goswannie14
                It was Mark Williams' idea. Not the AFL.
                ...Doh oh well their both nuff nuffs any way,but with this idea i think Mark takes the cake.
                Now this is a thread that i would expect on the ego -centric, wank session that is redandwhiteonline.com...

                Comment

                • swantastic
                  Veterans List
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 7275

                  #9
                  Originally posted by goswannie14
                  My thoughts.

                  Extend h&a season to 30 weeks, allowing each team to play the others twice.

                  Final 8 split into 2 groups consisting of teams finishing 1, 3, 5 & 7 and 2, 4, 6 & 8.

                  WEEK 1
                  Game A, 1 v 3 Winner to week 3
                  Game B, 2 v 4 Winner to week 3
                  Game C, 5 v 7 Loser eliminated
                  Game D, 6 v 8 Loser eliminated

                  WEEK 2
                  Game E, loser A v winner C
                  Game F, loser B v winner D

                  WEEK 3
                  Game G, winner A v winner E
                  Game H, winner B v winner F

                  WEEK 4
                  Grand Final winner G v winner H
                  Your not just a pretty face are ya
                  Now this is a thread that i would expect on the ego -centric, wank session that is redandwhiteonline.com...

                  Comment

                  • Robbo
                    On the Rookie List
                    • May 2007
                    • 2946

                    #10
                    30 weeks is way too long. If the season went for that long then pretty much everyone would be booked in for surgery.

                    Comment

                    • ScottH
                      It's Goodes to cheer!!
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 23665

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Robbo
                      30 weeks is way too long. If the season went for that long then pretty much everyone would be booked in for surgery.
                      And the early rounds would be the equivalent of the NAB cup, as all the senior players would still be recovering from the off season chop shop visits.

                      Comment

                      • goswannie14
                        Leadership Group
                        • Sep 2005
                        • 11166

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Robbo
                        30 weeks is way too long. If the season went for that long then pretty much everyone would be booked in for surgery.
                        Originally posted by ScottH
                        And the early rounds would be the equivalent of the NAB cup, as all the senior players would still be recovering from the off season chop shop visits.
                        I agree, but I thought that suggesting that the comp be cut to 12 or 14 teams would open up an even greater can of worms.
                        Does God believe in Atheists?

                        Comment

                        • TheGrimReaper
                          Suspended by the MRP
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 2203

                          #13
                          Final top 6 after 30 home and away games, end of story!

                          Comment

                          • BSA5
                            Senior Player
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 2522

                            #14
                            I've always liked the idea of 20 rounds. You play 5 sides twice, the other ten just once. The next season you play a different 5 twice. Then the third season you play the remaining five twice. Over three years, you play each side the same number of times. Of course, that won't work in an 18 side competition, but I have a sneaking suspicion those plans will fall through anyway. Oh, and keep the top 8. There's nothing wrong with it. This is just another example of changing rules for the sake of it.
                            Officially on the Reid and Sumner bandwagon!

                            Comment

                            • Spring
                              On the Rookie List
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 4

                              #15
                              Originally posted by goswannie14
                              My thoughts.

                              Extend h&a season to 30 weeks, allowing each team to play the others twice.

                              Final 8 split into 2 groups consisting of teams finishing 1, 3, 5 & 7 and 2, 4, 6 & 8.

                              WEEK 1
                              Game A, 1 v 3 Winner to week 3
                              Game B, 2 v 4 Winner to week 3
                              Game C, 5 v 7 Loser eliminated
                              Game D, 6 v 8 Loser eliminated

                              WEEK 2
                              Game E, loser A v winner C
                              Game F, loser B v winner D

                              WEEK 3
                              Game G, winner A v winner E
                              Game H, winner B v winner F

                              WEEK 4
                              Grand Final winner G v winner H
                              One of the problems with this type of system is there is no cross over amongst the two groups at week 3, so teams 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 could never play in the grand final. Perhaps if games G and H were structured so the winners of E and F played in reverse, you would allow more combinations of teams to play in the grand final.

                              I think the current system allows the most combinations to play in the GF while generally allowing tangible benefits to teams who finish higher on the ladder.

                              Comment

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