Remember when...

[LaDoleCheckVida]

Partly flooding, partly poor kicking from both sides (especially StKilda), partly abysmal forward structure and midfield play from us, and partly StKilda's midfield folded under pressure for half the game.

Flooding contributes a lot to all those factors unfortunately. I hate flooding and too me it was St Kildas intent from the get go to just flood us from the opening bounce.

As expected of course from Lyons.

I should not bother watching St Kilda/Swans game in the future. They are always an example of how not to play footy.

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

after tonight I have to say that I have serious reservations about some of the Swans older brigade. Leo Barry is a one trick pony who thinks he still run around in circles & get away with it. He is aging, is far slower & is getting easier to catch. He was a virtual liability at times tonight.

I have to say this, I think Barry Hall is past his used by date. I don't know whether it is confident age or whatever, but I have had enough waiting to find out. I have had enough giving him the benefit of the doubt. He has had eye surgery yet again, yet he still does the crocodile approach to chest-marking.

He is not the dominant force he once was & is best used as CHF in a cameo role where he can huff & puff & unsettle the defenders, then can go off when it gets too much for him.

JF

[JF_Bay22_SCG]

Flooding contributes a lot to all those factors unfortunately. I hate flooding and too me it was St Kildas intent from the get go to just flood us from the opening bounce.

As expected of course from Lyons.

I should not bother watching St Kilda/Swans game in the future. They are always an example of how not to play footy.

I was expecting tonight to be ugly. It was, but the closeness of the contest turned it into a bit of a strategic chess-match.

I'm expecting next Sunday against Port to be far more attacking, as Port are a running side with a suspect defensive game.

JF

[floppinab]

after tonight I have to say that I have serious reservations about some of the Swans older brigade. Leo Barry is a one trick pony who thinks he still run around in circles & get away with it. He is aging, is far slower & is getting easier to catch. He was a virtual liability at times tonight.

JF

But was in our, what, top 3 or 4 possession getters, and not all that many of them the junk stuff across half back. Was interesting to see him up at half back and across the wing a lot last night. Guess that had a bit to do with the uber flood and that Gehrig wasn't playing

[CureTheSane]

He's never been a great overhead mark, but his chest marking has deserted him over the past year or so.

Our forward line is garbage - 6 goals!
(our midfield's not a lot better)

Last couple of years.

But I thought that he played OK last night.
There must be a lot of pressure to mark the one or two ball that are presented to him in a way that they can actually be marked.

[Lachie17]

I think that's the key - our delivery to Baz has been a hell of a lot better. Combine that with double and tripple teaming, uber-floods and him working back into form and I don't think we should be too rough on the guy in round 1.

[giant]

The Indian Rubber Man impression in Q3 wasn't pretty. His kicking last night wasn't inspiring either - 2005 Barry seems a long way away.

OTOH Micky O showed he's still one of the best one-grab marks in the league.

[Mike_B]

The Indian Rubber Man impression in Q3 wasn't pretty. His kicking last night wasn't inspiring either - 2005 Barry seems a long way away.

OTOH Micky O showed he's still one of the best one-grab marks in the league.

Even better than MOL at one grab marks is ROK - if only he could teach Baz how to mark overhead on the run.

[Legs Akimbo]

I think that's the key - our delivery to Baz has been a hell of a lot better. Combine that with double and tripple teaming, uber-floods and him working back into form and I don't think we should be too rough on the guy in round 1.

Unfortunately, the malaise goes much deeper than that...

1. He is leading wide and is not playing far enough down the ground. He is a better player when he plays like Reiwoldt. i.e. a running half forward not a wrestling full forward. He looked fitter tonight, but stayed too close to goal to run his player off.
2. He is consistently dropping marks he should take and with his shocking technique, will continue to do so. Needs to mark the ball in front of his face.
3. He is taking on players and getting caught. I lost count of the number of times he took off, tried to break the tackle and was caught or pulled to the ground.
4. His goal kicking as crap. Missed two easy shots he should have swallowed.

Basically, he is a 31 year old guy trying to play like a 22 year old. Barry - get over it, redefine your role according to what you can do, or bugger off. Stop giving away stupid free kicks when you get nailed mate. It is selfish.

However, I agree that the team also contributes by not moving the ball quickly enough into the forward line, resulting in us being susceptible to the flood. Also the forward line players last night were way too static. If Hall is going to make something out of a lead, then MOL and Davis need to lead wide to draw players away from Hall. I think a related problem is that Jolly is not dropping back to the goal square, which takes the opposition ruckman away from Hall's leading space. This is probably because he blew up in the second quarter last night and was struggling to run the game out.

Here's what I would do.

1. Play White as a true FF leading from the goal square with MOL acting as a foil / crumber. If White is not up to it, play MOL as a leading forward and bring in Moore as the crumber or have Buchanon / Bird / whoever resting from Midfield roration, taking on role as the forward pocket /crumber.
2. Play Davis as a HFF, where his long kicking can count. Accept the fact that if he marks it on the 50, he MUST take a shot. He's at least a 60% chance.
3. Instruct Hall to play in the space between the centre square and 30 metres from goal.

Another problem is that whilst ROK is roaming far and wide and pulled in some good marks, he is just not damaging enough. What is his role? he is just acting as some sort of uncessary link and by the time he pulls in his mark, turns around and takes his kick, the other guys have dropped back. Waste of time.

[giant]

I meant contested marks in particular - there must have only been a dozen contested marks in the game and i reckon Mick took a quarter of them.

Nice work from ROK but he's madethat lead up mark he's specialty - don't see him marking close to goals much these days.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Could Davis take ROK's role, and ROK become our FF? I've always wanted to see O'Keefe trialed in the goal square, as he's an extremely reliable mark and a decent shot at goal. O'Loughlin is still great value, and White needs get a go at some point, but the above combination is what I'd like to see if BBBBBBH doesn't get his @@@@ together.

We smashed the Hawks last year, without Hall, and looked awesome doing it. I think it's safe to say we don't rely on him these days, because he gives us nothing.

[Nico]

Could Davis take ROK's role, and ROK become our FF? I've always wanted to see O'Keefe trialed in the goal square, as he's an extremely reliable mark and a decent shot at goal. O'Loughlin is still great value, and White needs get a go at some point, but the above combination is what I'd like to see if BBBBBBH doesn't get his @@@@ together.

We smashed the Hawks last year, without Hall, and looked awesome doing it. I think it's safe to say we don't rely on him these days, because he gives us nothing.

I said after the game - White for Grundy is an obvious.

[ScottH]

...Hall could mark. Sheesh, he has lost it. I hope it comes back, we need it to.

My long term memory is not that good.

[CureTheSane]

St.Kilda looked very fit.

we didn't look fit at all.

The implication that a couple of weeks extra preparation helped the Saints is rubbish.

What helped them was the pre season comp.

Much more like H &A match conditions than a practice game.
Ask any player who comes back into a team after along spell away and he'll say that he doesn't have match fitness.
That's what the Swans were lacking.

Like it or hate it, the coaches should respect the NAB up - even as a tool leading into the part of the season that counts.

[giant]

St.Kilda looked very fit.

we didn't look fit at all.

Really? I didn't see it that way - both teams seems shattered in Q4 but we were the ones making the running (such as it was...).