Are we overrating the win against Port?

[stellation]

He may just have meant that he had not seen Sydney playing slightly more directly and slightly less willing to kill the ball, not that he didn't see Sydney being able to win coming.

[liz]

But it's not like the Swans haven't played as openly as that before. Indeed, we kicked 17 goals against them last year.

Surely if you're coaching a team, you prepare them to take on the opposition assuming the opposition are going to play as well they are capable of, and try to work out ways to stop them. You can't go into a game assuming the opposition is going to be as insipid as we were the week before against the Saints, especially when you have no intention of employing the same tactics that the previous week's opposition did to contribute to that insipidness.

[hammo]

You can add more & Bird that that assessment too Liz.

I think Bird has shown that he is still an 18 year old and very early in his football development. He is clearly going to be a gun but has been caught out a bit so far with skills and teh pace of the game. Will probably play about a dozen games this year.

Which is why the relatively sudden maturing of Jack is so exciting. I think his pace has taken a few opposition sides by surprise. And while I've been one of the chorus, along with ORB and BBB, singing his praises in recent times, even I have been taken somewhat aback by the crispness, vision and accuracy of his disposals in the first two games.

Yep I agree. I must admit I thought he was too small and had dodgy skills. Not any more!

Get it in quick! There was a token puff piece about it after the game, and I think it was Hall who said the plan was to not mess around with it and kick it to the forwards much quicker. It's all good to say this after a huge win against a team with no midfield grunt and a witches hat defence, but it has to become a regular plan and we have to implement it against those teams you mentioned.

Agree. It's all very well smashing a team when you're well on top but until I see us back ourselves to break a team's flood against us, then we know our gameplan has evolved.

On the point of whether the win is being overrated, I doubt it. A win is a win, particularly this early in the season. I would have taken a win against St Kilda last week also regardless of how well we played. As we know an extra 4 or 8 points is always nice at the end of the home and away season.

[stellation]

How many times have we kicked 17 goals in the past few years? I think it's reasonable leading into a game to not expect us to go out and put that many goals on the board.

[top40]

I can not help but have a slight sense of d?j?@ vu. Remember Round 22 last year. It was a beautiful sunny Sunday afternoon at the SCG. We were magnificent, beating the eventual semi finalist, Hawthorn, 22 goals to 10, or by a margin of 72 points. (How similar is that to last Sunday?s Port win!).We then travel interstate for a Saturday night game, our heads held high, our confidence soaring. The result: the worse result of 2007; we are smashed by 38 point by Collingwood.

In essence, we just need to keep a lid on one very good win.

[liz]

6 times in 2007 ( three of those over 20 goals)

6 times in 2006 (one of which was the PF; twice over 20 goals)

5 times in 2005 (but quite a lot of 15s and 16s)

Just 3 times in 2004 (I think - my records are incomplete from that year) - that was probably the dourest year under Roos.

8 times in 2003

So we do it about 25% of the time. Sure, it doesn't happen all the time but partly because many other teams actually show a lot of respect towards the Swans' forward line and adopt tactics to stop it happening. For all the talk of the Swans being the floodmeisters, we have uber-floods set against us quite often. And who wouldn't given it's been shown to be a tactic they've struggled to overcome.

But if you put to one side the teams incapable of decent defence (ie Richmond and Carlton in recent years, sometimes Brisbane and Melbourne too), its been the teams that have backed their running power and "silky skills", like Port, the Dogs and Hawks, who've been most likely to be on the wrong end of a decent score line against them.

[NMWBloods]

We generally don't do it against the top sides.

6 times in 2007 - Melbourne (2), Carlton, Richmond, plus Port and Hawthorn.

6 times in 2006 - Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, Hawthorn, plus Bulldogs and Fremantle

5 times in 2005 - Hawthorn (2), Carlton, Essendon, Brisbane

So generally speaking we don't do it against top 4 sides, most of the time it is against bottom 4 or those fringe finalists.

Williams probably was deluded into thinking Port was a top 4 side, whereas they're probably a fringe finalist. And as Liz notes, it's the ones who try to open up the game.

[stellation]

I'm not trying to suggest that Williams is a coaching genius, I just don't think that saying you didn't expect it was an acknowledgement of not being prepared

It was a beautiful Autumn day and everything just clicked for the Swans on a day where everything didn't just click for Port, it happens. It was ace!

[2005]

Which is why the relatively sudden maturing of Jack is so exciting. I think his pace has taken a few opposition sides by surprise. And while I've been one of the chorus, along with ORB and BBB, singing his praises in recent times, even I have been taken somewhat aback by the crispness, vision and accuracy of his disposals in the first two games.

Your right here Liz, its been his crispness with his ball use in the first 2 weeks that has suprised me.
Last year and the 2 NAB games this year that I saw ,he turned it over on a regular basis, though Im sure he has been told he has a spot if his form warrants it and he is playing the game as he normally does without the fear of being dropped.Sure he will make mistakes though his speed and his sureness with the pill has been at the top end in these 1st 2 weeks.

[liz]

I reckon that for the quicker players it comes down to understanding their speed and when to use it. It's what turned Kennelly from a good player into a very good one - he learned when to go full bore and when he didn't have to.

Jack is genuinely quick by AFL standards. His basic disposal skills improved no end last year but he often made the mistake, even at reserve grade, or kicking while he was unbalanced because he was still running too quickly. It's a mistake he'll still make from time to time but he seems to have quickly got a handle on how his speed relates to what's going on around him and isn't trying to overdo it.

[TheGrimReaper]

That is the type of game-plan that I like to see the Swans play week in, week out.

[Triple B]

Plus they would have to be coached by one of the biggest technical ignoramuses in the league in Mark Williams. Not only does he never seen to have a plan b against sides like us or the Crows who use a zone-based defensive net, he never seems willing to change tactics to stop the bleeding. Thus when Port are down & hurting, you can really murder them.

He certainly changed tactics to stop the bleeding in the 3rd quarter on Sunday.

I could barely believe my eyes when they had ONE, yes that is one, player in the forward line for 3 consecutive centre square bounces. B2 was standing down between CHB and FB with no opponent and not a player within 40 metres of him. They had a player on either side of the square just on the PA side of the centre and four players contesting the bounce. That leaves 11 players crowding up our forward line + the most annoying runner in the AFL, that little bald runner who has been filling up space illegally for years.

[Industrial Fan]

He certainly changed tactics to stop the bleeding in the 3rd quarter on Sunday.

I could barely believe my eyes when they had ONE, yes that is one, player in the forward line for 3 consecutive centre square bounces. B2 was standing down between CHB and FB with no opponent and not a player within 40 metres of him. They had a player on either side of the square just on the PA side of the centre and four players contesting the bounce. That leaves 11 players crowding up our forward line + the most annoying runner in the AFL, that little bald runner who has been filling up space illegally for years.

Are you referring to McLaren there?

[Triple B]

Are you referring to McLaren there?

Nah, he's been thieving oxygen for years.

[shaun..]

He certainly changed tactics to stop the bleeding in the 3rd quarter on Sunday.

I could barely believe my eyes when they had ONE, yes that is one, player in the forward line for 3 consecutive centre square bounces. B2 was standing down between CHB and FB with no opponent and not a player within 40 metres of him. They had a player on either side of the square just on the PA side of the centre and four players contesting the bounce. That leaves 11 players crowding up our forward line + the most annoying runner in the AFL, that little bald runner who has been filling up space illegally for years.

Stop the bleeding... there wasn't much blood left at that point . It resulted in a swans goal (or two) though