KFC for thought

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  • ROK Lobster
    RWO Life Member
    • Aug 2004
    • 8658

    KFC for thought

    Warning: this is a little long, and a bit of a ramble but I am not going to put too much effort into it. Anyway, we have a week off, it might help pass the time. And if you feel inclined to reply, please read all of it and make some sort of sensible response. Thanks.

    The worst thing that could have happened to the career of Nick Davis was the final quarter of the famous Geelong semi-final.

    He played an excellent game that night, but the final quarter was brilliant. It was a once in a career quarter. I remember a Nico post on here about being in the zone, about Nico running a wing (I think) and hitting every target, lace out with a sublime left foot. Plenty of sportsmen and women talk about it. It happens but it cannot be summoned. I think that this quarter raised unrealistic expectations in fans, in the club and most importantly in Nick himself about what his true "potential" is.

    Firstly, I think that regardless of how good the 1/4 was, its true quality was over stated because (a) the rest of the game was so crap, (b) the Swans came from behind, and (c) it was an elimination semi-final. Had Nick played a 1/4 like that in a home and away game aganst the side running 12th when the Swans led by 17 at three quarter time, it would be lucky to be mentioned beyond ther following Monday. The hype of the moment (and what a moment it was) has propelled the quarter into mythical status. That is fine, it remains a great 1/4 of football, but the moment should not be confused with the qulaity of the football. There are probably plenty of blokes who have played an absolute blinder for a 1/4 or a 1/2 in their day but their moment has been forgotten because it was not in a come from behind semi final win in front of 40,000 screaming fans and a live television audience of heaps.

    1/4quarter, coupled with Nick's previous reputation as KFC loving, lazy, sometimes disinterested "wasted talent", have combined to produce a belief that this is what Nick is capable of if he applies himself. I don't think it is. He could develop the strength of Hall, the motor of ROK, the courage of Jude and the speed of Malceski and quite likely never play another 1/4 like that. That 1/4 was a moment in time that will never return - sadly.

    I think that along with the fans, Nick believed it could happen too. I thought at the start of 2006 he looked absolutely fantastic - and I thought that he was one of the few that looked commited early in the season when the others looked flat. I believe that he got on the spirit of the bloods bandwagon a little bit late, but that he was a true believer of the hype. He thought that if he commited himself he would be able to reproduce his semi-final form - hence the 2 or 3 Brownlows comment during the 2006 pre-season. He got sucked in by the hype and the spirit of the bloods (I suspect the coaching staff may have too) and thought that if he trained like Kirk, he could reproduce that form.

    In the context of the flat start to 2006 and injury - which had disillusioned him before - I think Nick (probably not the most persistent bloke in the club) probably got over the spirit of the bloods stuff pretty quickly, and lost his way in 2006. I still think his dropping was very badly handled by the club and has as much to do with why he is in the reserves now as anything else. He was made a scapegoat - there is no way he was the only underperforming player at that stage of 2006. However, it is easy to understand why in the context of the hype of his 2005 performance, his reputation as a wasted talent and a recorded fall in attitude at that stage of the season. I think that Nick, besides his football talent, has a great knack of getting himself in the wrong place at the wrong time - which proably shows a real lack of PR smarts and a genuine lack of judgement.

    I think we all expect too much of Davis if we expect him to be 2005 semi final Davis. I like the LRT handball into space Davis goal from 30m out from off the ground v Carlton Davis. He can work hard, and often does, but is not quick and tends to want to be where the ball is going rather than where it is. I think Luke Hodge plays very similarly much of the time (I also think that Hodge is a much better player than Nick, and certainly a better tackler but has a same tendancy to try and get to the outside a pack where the ball is likely to come out). I thnk that his footy smarts are a great asset, and that he creates plenty of opportunites by being clever, much like MOL (MOL is a better mark, but also has a lot more of his leads honoured).

    I think that Roos has failed to get the most out of Davis and that the blame should be shared. Roos has achieved a lot at the club and credit to him. But he has failed when it comes to Davis which is a shame for those of us that enjoy watching Nick. That said however, Roos may have got a lot less out of the club had he been the type of coach that could have achieved more with Nick. Roos is certainly stubborn, and in my opinion arrogant. Once Nick crossed the line he was always going to struggle with Roos and his henchmen.

    In the final quarter against Geelong in 2005 Nick Davis set himself a bench mark that he could not reach. He set an expectation of himself that he could not fulfil. Combined with his reputation as a natural talent with a suspect attitude, the ease with which he seems to become disillusioned (part of the suspect attitude) and the approach taken by the club in 2005 and following, he was on a hiding to nothing from that moment on.

    Someone needs to work out how to get the best out of Nick Davis. It would be best if it was him that was the someone. The club needs to consider it to, and work out what they really want from him and how they might get it. He is not irreplaceable - he is proably not in our best dozen - but he is far too good a player to be playing in Canberra. Rather than look at the 2005 game I think the 2006 GF shows his true value. He is a genuine match winner when playing confidently and well. We are a better side with him in the team and we have no other player that is like him, no like-for-like replacement. I genuinely hope that the club and Nick can work together, set some realistic expectations and find a way to get him firing for the run home. We are a better chance of a flag in 2008 with Nick Davis playing well in our best 22 than without.
  • SimonH
    Salt future's rising
    • Aug 2004
    • 1647

    #2
    A good point well made. But the final note of cautious optimism sounded pretty distant and forlorn in light of what you'd said earlier.

    The other point that you didn't make about why that quarter has come to carry a ridiculous amount of gravitas, is that the Swans won the flag that year (of course everyone is so aware of it, it scarcely needs to be said). If Sydney had been outscored by the Saints in the final quarter of the prelim final, then that quarter would have been little more than a nice highlight reel for the folks back home. For the wider footballing world, it would've been a fleetingly memorable moment from an ultimately failed team, soon discarded as it focussed on the huge, history-making Weagles v Saints grannie.

    The best case scenario for Nick Davis is: he works his way back into the side in the balance of the year, and by playing serviceable team footy (containing enough 'team' to satisfy the Bloods) with occasional flashes of brilliance, plays out 2009 and 2010 in the league side before retiring. (I can't see him having any interest in pushing on well into his 30s.) Maybe some of those flashes of brilliance might even come in a final (dare to dream, in a GF); but the chances that they will be a bright, shining light between success and failure like in 2005, are infinitesimally small.

    Even on that scenario, the 2005 semi-final will be the thing he's remembered for. His Everest after which everything else had to look pretty ordinary by comparison.

    I don't think there's anything he or anyone else can probably do about that. Nor would they necessarily want to. The following concept has doubtless been put more eloquently: A hero once in your life, is better than the never in your life that most sportspeople get.

    Comment

    • Go Swannies
      Veterans List
      • Sep 2003
      • 5697

      #3
      You make a fair point that he reached a sublime highlight that could never be repeated. In some ways it was like the Hird final quarter against the Eagles - you knew you were witnessing something very special.

      So maybe we all expect too much of him. But I don't buy the Nick is singled out for special treatment argument. I think that Nick will always seek the easy option. In the 2005 "bloods" code every player apparently agreed that they would work under a self imposed code of discipline. I remember an interview with Roos that was interrupted by a player coming in to tell Ross that a player had transgressed the code and he was just letting the coach know that the players would all be doing a dawn penance session because of that.

      As we know, the code turned the Swans around - just as a similar epithany did for the cats last year. My understanding is that Nick was well accepted within the club. But over months and years they all became tired of doing penance when it was nearly always the same player who wasn't measuring up to the team standards. If you have ever had a job where you've had to work harder to cover for a lazy workmate you probably know how they feel.

      So we have the situation where the players - and club - can turn their backs on the Bloods code and simply welcome Nick back to the seniors. I think they all expect that the overall team performance will drop if they don't all monitor each other within the code. Or they ask Nick to meet the code and match the performance targets that they set - so far he doesn't seem to have done that, or even tried very hard to do it.

      From a few conversations with Nick, I don't think he is stupid. But I think he is self indulgent. It was interesting to see a recent thread on Big Footy where Kirk was voted as the best captain in the AFL. Kirk and Davis are at either ends of the spectrum - Kirk is the moderate talent who works so hard that he's now one of the elite. Davis is the great talent that, on a regular good day would drop into the best 22 of any team in the competition. But he may never do the hard yards to ever get that chance again.

      It's remarkable how far Nick has fallen - and I can't see it as anyone's fault but his own. We've all seen players turn their lives around after being traded - Medhurst is one this season. But Chris Tarrant shows that a change may not always be enough if there's no urge to do better after the kick up the bum of being let go. If Nick doesn't play seniors for the Swans this year I presume he'll be put up for trade. But I'm not convinced any other team would want him.

      As I said in another thread, I think that is really sad. I wonder if he'll look back as a 50 year old and think "why did I waste the chances that were given to me?"

      Comment

      • NMWBloods
        Taking Refuge!!
        • Jan 2003
        • 15819

        #4
        Originally posted by ROK Lobster
        I think we all expect too much of Davis if we expect him to be 2005 semi final Davis.
        I've said this a few times. The expectations on what Davis can produce are too high. He can play better than he has been recently (and we don't really know why he isn't) but the benchmark for a reasonable game from him is set far higher than for most. I agree with ROKL that most of it stems from that quarter, and is frequently illustrated by comments that Davis has only played one good quarter in his time at the Swans, which is obviously not true.
        Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

        "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

        Comment

        • connolly
          Registered User
          • Aug 2005
          • 2461

          #5
          ROK that is one of the most insightful contributions I have read about footballer anywhere. Maybe a factor in Davo's predicament is that the game for small forwards has also changed significantly since 05 and he couldn't make the change for the reasons you have set out. Many of us can't make the change and there is always a pity in that. Lets hope he finds his way back but i remain a sceptic.
          Bevo bandwagon driver

          Comment

          • DeadlyAkkuret
            Veterans List
            • Oct 2006
            • 4547

            #6
            Great thread. ROK, like Davis in that semi, has outdone himself

            A lot of people (mostly supporters, but perhaps his peers, too) expect too much from Davis and the St. Kilda match in round 1 is the single most obvious example of that.

            He had 14 disposals, 7 marks and kicked 1 goal 2 behinds. In my opinion he was one of the few players who could have stolen that game for us and almost did. When we have a player like Henry getting a game (Yes, I know he provides a contest) I struggle to see how he's of more value than Davis.

            Players such as Jude, McVeigh, Mathews, Bevan etc have struggled through most of their career but were given many opportunities because they 'do the team things'. Three of those players are enjoying impressive seasons to date, but what Kept McVeigh in the team last year? How did Bolton keep getting game after game? It's hard not to think some bias is in play here.

            Grundy or White could easily replace a guy like Playfair, but Davis is one of a kind and a 15 disposal & 2 goal game from him can be the difference between those close games that we just seem to lose, and clinching them.

            Comment

            • Reggi
              On the Rookie List
              • Jan 2003
              • 2718

              #7
              Originally posted by NMWBloods
              illustrated by comments that Davis has only played one good quarter in his time at the Swans, which is obviously not true.
              Name the other one
              You don't ban those who supported your opponent, you make them wallow in their loserdom by covering your victory! You sit them in the front row. You give them a hat! Toby Ziegler

              Comment

              • AussieAnge
                On the Rookie List
                • Sep 2003
                • 1057

                #8
                Well said ROK., you make some good points.
                Interestingly (or at least I thought so) on Before the Bounce recently they did a feature on the 5 best most influential individual performance in a quarter of football and Nick/Swans SF '05 did not feature.

                GS, I understand what you are saying but I'm not a fan of peer reviews, I've experienced it in the past and it doesn't work, creates factions and bad morale.

                IMO a good manager (whether in business or sport) can manage all different personalities and be able to get the best out of all of them without alienating any of them and doesn't have a "one size fits all approach". It seems as Roos has this one size approach and it clearly hasn't worked for Roos/Davis. Having said that managing people is difficult and I am not commenting on his results for the club.
                Bring it on!

                Comment

                • Wardy
                  The old Boiler!
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 6676

                  #9
                  Originally posted by AussieAnge
                  Well said ROK., you make some good points.
                  Interestingly (or at least I thought so) on Before the Bounce recently they did a feature on the 5 best most influential individual performance in a quarter of football and Nick/Swans SF '05 did not feature.

                  GS, I understand what you are saying but I'm not a fan of peer reviews, I've experienced it in the past and it doesn't work, creates factions and bad morale.

                  IMO a good manager (whether in business or sport) can manage all different personalities and be able to get the best out of all of them without alienating any of them and doesn't have a "one size fits all approach". It seems as Roos has this one size approach and it clearly hasn't worked for Roos/Davis. Having said that managing people is difficult and I am not commenting on his results for the club.
                  Agree, looking at the situation, I think we are expecting too much from him now - and it probably is the quarter of his life that he played. - But I think the "onesize fits all" theory that appears to be Roos's style is close to the mark. It seems that Roos is persisting in trying to put a square peg (Nick) into a round hole (the Bloods culture). And thus far it aint working.
                  I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure..................
                  Chickens drink - but they don't pee!
                  AGE IS ONLY IMPORTANT FOR TWO THINGS - WINE & CHEESE!

                  Comment

                  • Go Swannies
                    Veterans List
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 5697

                    #10
                    Originally posted by AussieAnge
                    GS, I understand what you are saying but I'm not a fan of peer reviews, I've experienced it in the past and it doesn't work, creates factions and bad morale.
                    So you don't think it worked for the Lions, the Swans and the Cats?

                    Aker at the Lions is probably very close to Davis at the Swans (though it's Aker so it was all played out in the press) and again, it was apparently his team mates - as much as Leigh - that said enough is enough. And Aker isn't lazy, merely indiscreet. And he was dumped though he offered a lot more to the Lions over a longer period of time than Nick has given the Swans.

                    Comment

                    • RogueSwan
                      McVeigh for Brownlow
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 4602

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Reggi
                      Name the other one
                      Third or fourth quarter of the 2006GF?
                      "Fortunately, this is the internet, so knowing nothing is no obstacle to having an opinion!." Beerman 18-07-2017

                      Comment

                      • NMWBloods
                        Taking Refuge!!
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 15819

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Reggi
                        Name the other one
                        Exhibit A.
                        Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                        "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                        Comment

                        • connolly
                          Registered User
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 2461

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DeadlyAkkuret
                          Great thread. ROK, like Davis in that semi, has outdone himself

                          A lot of people (mostly supporters, but perhaps his peers, too) expect too much from Davis and the St. Kilda match in round 1 is the single most obvious example of that.

                          He had 14 disposals, 7 marks and kicked 1 goal 2 behinds. In my opinion he was one of the few players who could have stolen that game for us and almost did. When we have a player like Henry getting a game (Yes, I know he provides a contest) I struggle to see how he's of more value than Davis.

                          Players such as Jude, McVeigh, Mathews, Bevan etc have struggled through most of their career but were given many opportunities because they 'do the team things'. Three of those players are enjoying impressive seasons to date, but what Kept McVeigh in the team last year? How did Bolton keep getting game after game? It's hard not to think some bias is in play here.

                          Grundy or White could easily replace a guy like Playfair, but Davis is one of a kind and a 15 disposal & 2 goal game from him can be the difference between those close games that we just seem to lose, and clinching them.
                          All the players you mentioned are task orientated. Davo appears to be trying to extend his 15 minutes of fame. His destruction of Geelong in the last quarter in the 05 semi should be called the Andy Wharol quarter.
                          Bevo bandwagon driver

                          Comment

                          • CureTheSane
                            Carpe Noctem
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 5032

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Go Swannies
                            So you don't think it worked for the Lions, the Swans and the Cats?

                            Aker at the Lions is probably very close to Davis at the Swans (though it's Aker so it was all played out in the press) and again, it was apparently his team mates - as much as Leigh - that said enough is enough. And Aker isn't lazy, merely indiscreet. And he was dumped though he offered a lot more to the Lions over a longer period of time than Nick has given the Swans.
                            I agree with Ange.
                            Simply, management try to instill a TEAM atmosphere within a team.
                            You set a hierarchy and stick to it.
                            Is it not enough that there is already a coach, captain, and leadership group in place?
                            A leadership should do just that - lead by example and IMO should not be able to influence the team make up.
                            Just my opinion......

                            As for what ROK wrote, it all made much sense, particularly the Roos accepting blame part.
                            Without knowing exactly what has gone on re-Davis and his 'demise' I would suggest that Roos needs to take ownership of him as a player and if what has been reported is to be believed, he should be doing more than 'asking him to decide if he wants to play footy'

                            I'd like to see him back, but I also think he may still be worth something come end of season trade talks.
                            Not much point having a player like Davis plodding along in the reserves.....
                            The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

                            Comment

                            • CureTheSane
                              Carpe Noctem
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 5032

                              #15
                              Also, re-the comment about Davis' quarter being forgotten had it not been a final etc etc.

                              One who springs to mind who in hindsight was always remembered for a great spurt of play is Adam Schneider.
                              He lived of that pre season form for a very long time and really was never able to replicate it.
                              The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

                              Comment

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