What changes are needed to go from also rans to a contender?

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  • ernie koala
    Senior Player
    • May 2007
    • 3251

    What changes are needed to go from also rans to a contender?

    We get exposed by teams willing to play with the same intensity as us. Our decision making and skills drop away dramatically under pressure. Our pace is generally slow.
    This is what separates the top teams from the also rans. In 05/06 we handled the pressure, now we don't.
    Changes:
    Playfair.....ordinary at best, disposal is lamentable.
    LRT....Getting found out way too often
    Ablett/J Bolton....only room for one
    Everitt.....He should retire soon, can't run, or bend over, anymore

    Close to retirement.....Leaper
    Please no going back.....ie Mathews, Crouch

    I'd like to see more of Smith(he's quick), Schmidt, White, O'Dwyer, Vespremi
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect... MT
  • hot potato
    Sir Ashmole Gruntbucket
    • Jun 2007
    • 1122

    #2
    Tsunami instinctive run on football, there is nothing to lose. The Swans are in danger of missing the finals altogether if they keep playing constipated footy and BATS IN THE BELFREY reactions to free kicks against.
    "He was proud of us when we won and he was still proud of us when we lost' Tami Roos about Paul Sept 06.

    Comment

    • stellation
      scott names the planets
      • Sep 2003
      • 9721

      #3
      I'm going to come out and admit it- after watching the last 2 games I honestly don't know what's wrong and what can be done.
      I knew him as a gentle young man, I cannot say for sure the reasons for his decline
      We watched him fade before our very eyes, and years before his time

      Comment

      • Robbo
        On the Rookie List
        • May 2007
        • 2946

        #4
        To tell the truth, I don't think we have the cattle (talent) to -really- compete with Geelong and the Bulldogs.

        Our shutdown style game plan used to cover for our lack of class a few years ago but sides know how to beat us at our own game now.

        Comment

        • DeadlyAkkuret
          Veterans List
          • Oct 2006
          • 4547

          #5
          Originally posted by Robbo
          To tell the truth, I don't think we have the cattle (talent) to -really- compete with Geelong and the Bulldogs.

          Our shutdown style game plan used to cover for our lack of class a few years ago but sides know how to beat us at our own game now.
          Yep. New style is needed unless we just want to be a goodish top 8 side. The bad news is Longmire will probably take over after Roos and nothing will change. God I hope not!

          Comment

          • ROK Lobster
            RWO Life Member
            • Aug 2004
            • 8658

            #6
            Excitement machine Paul Roos has the answer:

            Comment

            • hammo
              Veterans List
              • Jul 2003
              • 5554

              #7
              It's more than personel - I think our game plan needs to be looked at.

              If you watch Geelong, Hawthorn and the Dogs play, the first thing you notice - apart from the skill level - is how they play on at all costs and generally kick long.

              It contrasts significantly to the Swans' slow build-up, stop-start, chip down the wings to the pockets approach. The good teams have worked out how to beat us.

              Unfortunately I don't think we have the players to play any other way.
              "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

              Comment

              • hammo
                Veterans List
                • Jul 2003
                • 5554

                #8
                Originally posted by ROK Lobster
                Excitement machine Paul Roos has the answer:

                http://news.smh.com.au/sport/back-to...0714-3eyi.html
                Yup, blame the defenders but praise a forward line that can kick only 10 goals
                "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

                Comment

                • DeadlyAkkuret
                  Veterans List
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 4547

                  #9
                  It's the midfielders. A lot of people talk about not being able to win a flag without a gun full foward, but West Coast managed to win one on the back of an elite midfield.

                  I can't remember a premier (other than Sydney) than didn't have a star studded engine room, or atleast two game breakers in there. We have one and that's Goodes.

                  Comment

                  • NMWBloods
                    Taking Refuge!!
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 15819

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Robbo
                    To tell the truth, I don't think we have the cattle (talent) to -really- compete with Geelong and the Bulldogs.

                    Our shutdown style game plan used to cover for our lack of class a few years ago but sides know how to beat us at our own game now.
                    It seems either that or our game plan needs changing. Our midfielders are poor and our forward line has no structure. We rely too heavily on rebound from the half back line and that is either being countered effectively by the opposition or being undone through injury.
                    Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                    "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                    Comment

                    • NMWBloods
                      Taking Refuge!!
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 15819

                      #11
                      Originally posted by ROK Lobster
                      Yes, more defensive is the answer! Hell, we let our opponents kick a whole 26 goals in two weeks!! Let's ignore the fact that we kicked only 16 goals in two weeks and are only the 10th highest goal scoring team in the comp!

                      "Our forward line was probably the least of our worries on the weekend, it was actually really one of the few positives.
                      La la land!
                      Last edited by NMWBloods; 14 July 2008, 05:50 PM.
                      Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                      "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                      Comment

                      • hot potato
                        Sir Ashmole Gruntbucket
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 1122

                        #12
                        Originally posted by hammo
                        It's more than personel - I think our game plan needs to be looked at.

                        If you watch Geelong, Hawthorn and the Dogs play, the first thing you notice - apart from the skill level - is how they play on at all costs and generally kick long.
                        It contrasts significantly to the Swans' slow build-up, stop-start, chip down the wings to the pockets approach. The good teams have worked out how to beat us.

                        Unfortunately I don't think we have the players to play any other way.
                        The running teams generally DON'T kick that long it's more like 30 - 35 metres to a lead 2 metres ahead of their opponent. Then there are always support players streaming past. When the Swans players take a mark, there are rarely support players running past, SO THEY ACTUALLY RUN BACKWARDS 20 METRES!! The trouble is the skill level just to hit a target from 30 metres is really dreadful, going over heads OR too short, and if you can't kick thru the ball and get goals, it's all over, because 10 goals in four quarters is about all The Swans are capable of ATM.
                        "He was proud of us when we won and he was still proud of us when we lost' Tami Roos about Paul Sept 06.

                        Comment

                        • originalswan
                          On the Rookie List
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 550

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ernie koala
                          We get exposed by teams willing to play with the same intensity as us. Our decision making and skills drop away dramatically under pressure. Our pace is generally slow.
                          This is what separates the top teams from the also rans. In 05/06 we handled the pressure, now we don't.
                          Changes:
                          Playfair.....ordinary at best, disposal is lamentable.
                          LRT....Getting found out way too often
                          Ablett/J Bolton....only room for one
                          Everitt.....He should retire soon, can't run, or bend over, anymore

                          Close to retirement.....Leaper
                          Please no going back.....ie Mathews, Crouch

                          I'd like to see more of Smith(he's quick), Schmidt, White, O'Dwyer, Vespremi
                          Generally agree we really seem to struggle against pressure and skillful opposition. We lose the ball too easily and miss targets that were unthinkable two years ago.

                          The next game against Carlton is crucial - lose and we will even struggle to make the 8 win and we have a shot at the top 4 - remembering we still have Geelong, the Bulldogs and our bogey team Collingwood to play again.

                          Comment

                          • SimonH
                            Salt future's rising
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 1647

                            #14
                            Yeah, in about 100 words that's it. Except I think Leo has plenty still to offer; just in a different role to that he's been asked to play for the last 5 years. Which is a whole different thread. (No, really: it is.)

                            One possible concern for future years (and now) is that a lot of our up-and-comers have okay pace without being really quick: Schmidt, McVeigh, Bird, Moore, Jack (Jack I think is medium-quick). Apparently DOK and Vespa aren't potential Stawell Gift winners either. Of course the old guys of the middle are famously slow with the exception of when-will-he-be-right Fossie (and the lamented-but-not-even-gone Crouch).

                            Pace isn't the be-all and end-all (no-one knows that better than David Spriggs) but it really helps to have one or two guys who can just put the foot down and burn off the opposition, a la Cyril Rioli yesterday or Daisy Thomas/Leon Davis last week. Goodes can actually do it, but that's because of his strength as much as his speed.

                            We certainly have to hope that Currie is as good as everyone says, because we're on the bones of our arse for ruckmen in the senior squad, and we can't afford to trade away any more picks for big men in the 2008 draft.

                            Geelong is the template right now. Their style is more fluid than ours, but it is not 'play on at all costs' at all. While the Hawks and Dogs may be the 2nd and 3rd best sides in the comp (by a fair distance) in the minor round, neither one is the full package and either one is capable of being found badly wanting under the pressure of finals.

                            Roos is actually half-right: if we score from near enough to 60% of our inside 50s, then the forwards are doing a fine job (as long as Buchanan and Playfair aren't taking many of the set shots). What needs a jab is the midfield, to produce plenty more inside 50s than we got yesterday.

                            Comment

                            • NMWBloods
                              Taking Refuge!!
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 15819

                              #15
                              Originally posted by hot potato
                              The running teams generally DON'T kick that long it's more like 30 - 35 metres to a lead 2 metres ahead of their opponent. Then there are always support players streaming past. When the Swans players take a mark, there are rarely support players running past, SO THEY ACTUALLY RUN BACKWARDS 20 METRES!! The trouble is the skill level just to hit a target from 30 metres is really dreadful, going over heads OR too short, and if you can't kick thru the ball and get goals, it's all over, because 10 goals in four quarters is about all The Swans are capable of ATM.
                              I pretty much agree with all of that Sir Grunty! However, the running teams do kick long more often that the Swans. A long kick is defined as at least 40m and you see more of those (and the 30-35m ones) compared to our dinky little 20m ones. We are the second lowest team in the competition for long kicks. Collingwood has 30% more than us.

                              What's interesting is that we're the third lowest team in the competition for disposals, but we're third highest for disposal differential (ie: our disposals minus our opponents). We are definitely still playing a lockdown, low possession, low scoring style of play. However, against highly skilled teams that is obviously not working.
                              Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                              "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                              Comment

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