AFL dying in Sydney

[ROK Lobster]

With the emphasis on tackling, defensive pressure and running the ball through long series of handballs, the game is becoming more and more like Rugby League every year. Bevan supporters may love it, but the reality it is that the things that made Aussie Rules distinct, such as long kicks, contested marks and the freedom to be creative, are being diluted continually and the interest in the game is sliding. Sydney missed its chance after 2005 to cement its place as the dominant football team in Sydney, and missed the chance to further develop interest in the code in the city. Sadly, the club has, probably without realising it, adopted the Roos personality - effective, but mechanical, dull, and arrogant. From how our forwards play to interaction with the media, from the type of players we recruit to the club's interaction with the AFL, it is all about defence. A siege mentality may bond a group of players together, but it does so by fostering a culture of inclusion and exclusion. While some of the members of the club may feel included, many here certainly do (and I think that the club markets itself well to members to make them feel included), I think that TV viewers, first time spectators and "code nuetrals" have been excluded to the point of indifference.

[connolly]

With the emphasis on tackling, defensive pressure and running the ball through long series of handballs, the game is becoming more and more like Rugby League every year. Bevan supporters may love it, but the reality it is that the things that made Aussie Rules distinct, such as long kicks, contested marks and the freedom to be creative, are being diluted continually and the interest in the game is sliding. Sydney missed its chance after 2005 to cement its place as the dominant football team in Sydney, and missed the chance to further develop interest in the code in the city. Sadly, the club has, probably without realising it, adopted the Roos personality - effective, but mechanical, dull, and arrogant. From how our forwards play to interaction with the media, from the type of players we recruit to the club's interaction with the AFL, it is all about defence. A siege mentality may bond a group of players together, but it does so by fostering a culture of inclusion and exclusion. While some of the members of the club may feel included, many here certainly do (and I think that the club markets itself well to members to make them feel included), I think that TV viewers, first time spectators and "code nuetrals" have been excluded to the point of indifference.

So the game has become more like RL but is less attractive in the RL heartland? Apparentley it is entirely the fault of Paul Roos who won a premiership!!!!!

[bloodboy]

blah blah blah we're better blah blah blah

When will you and your pro-Melbourne cronies wake up and smell the java? New York is the place to be!

I don't think that was what NMW was getting at at all. He is just saying it is a different type of supporter in the two cities, and having lived in both, I totally agree. Sydney people, generally, are not in to sport as much as we Melburnians. Look at the Melbourne Victory as another example, the crowd figures are unbelievable for a three year old team who plays a 'new-fashioned' code! (I say new-fashioned cos it kind of is in Aus). Anyways, it is not about being 'better', just about being different. It is very hard in this case because the Swans are always going to be compared to Melbourne clubs in all aspects (memberships, crowds, etc) but maybe that is just not a fair or realistic comparison to make...

[ROK Lobster]

So the game has become more like RL but is less attractive in the RL heartland? Apparentley it is entirely the fault of Paul Roos who won a premiership!!!!!

It's become more like Rugby League, which has diluted it's uniqueness. People who like league will not watch something that is a poor simulation of it, but people who liked (or may have come to like) something different - because it was not league - will be tunred away the more like league it becomes. I think the same can be said of union - it becomes more and more like league every year, and I think it is suffering because of that.

I am not sure why you consider that I am saying that it is Roos' fault. Roos and club seem to share a very similar outlook at the moment. A defensive one. I think that approach is detrimental to the development of a broader audience. It won us a priemership, but not many fans. The premiership got the band on the wagon, watching us play has shaken most of them off. People who have supported the club through thick and thin will hang around, regardless. It is pretty hard to simply change clubs becuase your team plays ordinary football, but new followers of the code and the club are not so loyal. Sure they "support" Sydney when asked which AFL team they go for, but if the product that they are served up is, drab, dull and defensive, they will go away. When the club refuses to acknowledge it, or gets very defensive about it, people turn away. It smacks of "us" and "them". I would argue, from a code development point of view (and probably from the development of a broader fan base for the club) that the gains of the premiership in 2005 have been countered by the style of play that was developed in order to achieve it, the ideology of the club that fosters it, and the bloody minded belief that it is the only model that can be succesful, despite the fact that the game continues to move on. Part of that is Roos' fault, as is most of the credit for the premiership. I do not thin that the attitude of the club on the whole can be laid at Roos' feet, unless of course we believe that the Swans really are Club Roos and that it is Paul that pulls all the strings. Apart from perhaps Paul himself, I don't think anyone believes that - except maybe those who consider he alone won the priemership and not the 21 players who contributed on the day.

[NMWBloods]

YThe viewing numbers in Sydney for all AFL teams is down, the numbers for Bloods has declined less.

Source?

[satchmopugdog]

I've got the feeling just from anecdotal evidence..ie..kids I teach and people I pay to be my friends.....TV watching as a whole is on the decline..radio seems to be holding its own better than the teley..and computer stuff is taking over.

When Tv can be broadcast through your computer maybe the numbers will rise and it may have nothing to do with the AFLor Swans gameplan.

Just a random set of thoughts

[stellation]

I don't think that was what NMW was getting at at all. He is just saying it is a different type of supporter in the two cities, and having lived in both, I totally agree. Sydney people, generally, are not in to sport as much as we Melburnians. Look at the Melbourne Victory as another example, the crowd figures are unbelievable for a three year old team who plays a 'new-fashioned' code! (I say new-fashioned cos it kind of is in Aus). Anyways, it is not about being 'better', just about being different. It is very hard in this case because the Swans are always going to be compared to Melbourne clubs in all aspects (memberships, crowds, etc) but maybe that is just not a fair or realistic comparison to make...

No no no, NMWBloods has a long term history of being a long reach dickhead!

[Nico]

When NMW talks about neutral supporters I suspect he means neutral AFL supporters. There are plenty of supporters in Melbourne who have no team or have their allegience to one team but watch mountains of footy and have a broad knowledge of all teams in the comp. The people I know in this category support what NMW says and tell me although they still watch the Swans it is seriously hard work. On the contrary I know a couple of people who admire the way we play and our hardness and competitiveness.

With regards the argument about audiences in Sydney being down, I always thought this was seen by all and sundry as a large variable depending on the success of a team.

It doesn't only happen that way in NSW, there have been plenty of times when Collingwood supporters haven't turned up when they were at the foot of the table. The mid nineties were an example and when Eddie McGuire became President he nailed this as a first priority to get their fans back to the games.

I reckon the fact that NSW audiences are down must have a bearing on the "value" of TV rights and the AFL cannot continue to expect it will be an ever increasing cash cow.

[waterfowl]

You couldn't be more wrong. The Bloods have a lot of interest from traditional RL supporters i know in the area i live. The viewing numbers in Sydney for all AFL teams is down, the numbers for Bloods has declined less. What the RL supporters don't like about AFL is soft matches. i believe it is the recent rules changes which has done more to turn RL supporters off AFL than anything else. The technical tiggy touchwood rules and confusing free kicks are the turn off. RL supporters do like hard intense contested football.

Once I clarified to a RL mate what constitutes a push in the back when tackling, he has become a strong follower of the game. Having delayed broadcasts by 1/2 to 3hrs with mostly biased boring commentators (even for home games) certainly doesn't help the cause..

[Matty10]

...it doesn't help when the media (and the AFL for that matter) constantly have a go at the Swans and "the way that they play."

Plus there is a difference between playing a poor style and playing poorly. When we play well our game plan is not an issue.

If the broadcasters didn't preface each Swans game with "this is going to be a tough, dour contest" it might also help their ratings. Generally speaking, people are idiots - if you tell them something is bad often enough they will eventually start to believe it.

I actually find the way that Geelong plays now to be quite boring (they used to be my second favourite team during the 80s and 90s when they played a different style). Their high possession game does not equal entertaining football in my opinion. But they reside in Victoria (which has become more and more parochial) and that is where the bulk of the negative media against the Swans originates.

[Rob-bloods]

Here here, Tim Lane was at it again in the Age today about our style and crowds.

Winning football does it, when we are on form we play good footy, when we are off we are really awful.

Who plays good losing football? All out attack is great unless you get pumped with an unaccountable defence.

Two years ago the victorians were bleating that all interstaters were on top and something had to be done, now Victorians are well placed.....not a cooee!

[NMWBloods]

Yes, it must be because of all the negative media and commentary...

[NMWBloods]

I actually find the way that Geelong plays now to be quite boring

Excluding all Swans and Geelong supporters, I would suggest that less than 1% of the football population would agree with you, especially when compared to the Swans.

[ShockOfHair]

Winning football does it, when we are on form we play good footy, when we are off we are really awful.

Agree. Sydney loves a winner. The audience it is losing is those people who were happy to watch the same style of play two years ago. Audiences are turning off because the Swans are not winning. When they're contenders again audiences will return.

The audience figures presumably trended upwards over 05-06 when we played so they're now inevitably coming down. That's my assumption of course -- anybody know the actual figures over previous seasons?

Also, you also can't read a TV audiences on one stat? Are Sydney TV audiences going down overall? How does AAFL compare with league, rugby and soccer audiences this year?

In fact, TV figures for all AFL games are down.
Sydney Swan's TV ratings fall for third consecutive year | Herald Sun

But whereas TV audience is down 21%, crowds are down 4.8%, (from 35,620 to 33,919). That's mainly because of lower blockbuster crowds. SCG crowd figures are actually up -- even though membership numbers are also down (also no surprise in post-premiership phase).

Rugby international crowds at Homebush have also fallen a lot, at least partly because of its inconvenience and transport problems.

If Swans style of play were the major factor, it's a surprise that more people are going to the home ground to be bored.

[Doctor]

I wonder if these ratings figures include those (like me) who watch the games on Fox rather than the free to air coverage. It's only since this current rights deal started that there have been times when the game was on both at the same time on occasion.