Is it injuries or do the Swans need a clean-out & to rebuild

[Mark Busuttil]

To compete, I think a few players need to go. Playfair is not up to AFL standard. Crouch & Mattews being out for so long worries me, Spider is on his last legs & can we find a forward that can kick straight consistently (or do we need McVeigh to kick 6 every week). The fumbling & turnovers in defence are embarrassing. Where is the daring & dash that we used to have.

Injuries are a problem (Goodes & O'Loughlin) but Magic only has 2, maybe 3 years left. B Hall has even less I reckon. I think a drop down the ladder is coming. We may only win 1-2 more games this year. It's so frustrating that mid-year, everything looked so promising & now we're 4th & have to look to next year. Unless a miracle happens, we won't complete against Geelong or Collingwood - we could finish 7th, 8th or worse.

The Swans are a very sad lot at the moment.

[connolly]

The Swans are a very sad lot at the moment.

Strange conclusion. Surely Brabazon showed in the last quarter that he will be a good running midfielder. McVeigh was outstanding, Bevo needs no tyre pumping, Vezpremi is a class act, Bird plays with a maturity that is beyond his years and Jack showed pace, aggression and skill. LRT played very well under pressure. Given that all these players are under 24 surely there is a lot to like today and the Bloods are a very promising lot?

[BSA5]

A big strong forward is a must. From all reports we're pretty set in the other areas. We have plenty of young midfielders, Currie and Orreal developing well in the ruck, and Faulks, Murphy and White all looking promising in defence. But we need a forward. Grundy or White are the two obvious options, and I think Barlow has potential there is well, provided he hardens up, but they're all playing different positions at the moment, and there is no hard evidence they'll succeed forward.

[Bas]

I tried to search for thread I did a few weeks back who I thought would go. I suggested Currie which had a few people complaining but that was because I hadn't had a chance to get to ressie games this year or if I did it was late in the game.

I'm glad I was wrong and sounds to be developing very well.

Without going into another "to be deleted" the Swans are in avery delicate situation over the next few years. The special draft for the new Clubs will coincide with a number of our older legs retiring.

Hopefully the up and comers are up to AFL standard and not just good players in the reserves.

Many said the Club was gone after Plugger and then Kelly, Dunks and Cresswell, Schwass finished playing but we won the GF in 05.

I think the most promising thing this year is that Jack, Bird, Moore have played all year and have been competitive against quality midfielders. They have had stuff ups but then how many here would have had these three playing all year.

The Swans might not make too many changes to their list for next year. AS a minimum of 3 have to go I'd be guessing-
1. Matthews;
2. White;
3. Grundy:
4. Brennan;
5. Davis;
6. Bucky - maybe.

I'd hope the Swans trade for a top 10 pick next year considering the talent available. A FULL FORWARD OR CHF PLEASE!!!!!!!

[liz]

The Swans might not make too many changes to their list for next year. AS a minimum of 3 have to go I'd be guessing-
1. Matthews;
2. White;
3. Grundy:
4. Brennan;
5. Davis;
6. Bucky - maybe.

I'd hope the Swans trade for a top 10 pick next year considering the talent available. A FULL FORWARD OR CHF PLEASE!!!!!!!

You point out we lack up and coming KPPs and then want to delist two we have, in White and Grundy?

Grundy looked at sea early against Hahn but became a pretty solid player as the game wore on (if we ignore that horrid kick across goal). I still reckon he's a forward, not a defender.

White didn't have much impact but he's still finding his feet. And he did a couple of nice things to keep the pressure on. He's still young and developing -- and I reckon he's a backman, not a forward.

And how are we going to get a top 10 pick? (unless we lose the rest of our games this year). The only currency that might net us one are Goodes, McVeigh (on this year's form), O'Keefe or possibly Vez (pretty pointless trading last year's almost top 10 pick for another). I don't want to see any of those players go. To get a top 10 pick nowadays you need a superstar who wants to leave. No-one trades players worthy of top 10 picks out of choice. The ones who have attracted such a trade in recent years - Judd, Nathan Brown, Carey - all wanted (or had) to get out. The only exception I can think of was Tarrant - some very astute trading by the Pies in hindsight - but it was with Freo!!

There will be some tough decisions coming up at the end of the year with list management. We may not have many stand-out superstars amongst the young players but almost all look capable, or in the cases of DOK, Laidlaw and Thornton, haven't been able to show this year whether they're capable or not. Amongst the rookies, Bruce, Smith and O'Dwyer are all putting forward strong cases for another year on the list, and that's on top of Murphy and Orreal who are deadset certainties to be on the list next year.

[NMWBloods]

I still don't understand why Grundy is not tried in the forward line. And for that matter if White plays defence in reserves, why do we play them the other way around in the seniors. I'm still hoping that Barlow can become an athletic key position player (eg: like Leppitsch).

[mcs]

there is a slide coming, but I dont think itll be too far down the ladder (Ie see Brisbane). There might be one bad year in 09 or 10 I would think, but we have enough quality coming through that with some astute picks up (Or to put it bluntly some luck) in the draft and maybe a trade or two we could imo be well and truly back on the rise by perhaps 2011 odd. Hopefully to go with that would be a move to a more attacking game plan as well. We will slide, it happens to most but I dont think it will be too bad and there may only be 1 'bad' year involved. This years draft will be critical though before Gold coast and West Sydney pillage the next few!

[Legs Akimbo]

You point out we lack up and coming KPPs and then want to delist two we have, in White and Grundy?

Grundy looked at sea early against Hahn but became a pretty solid player as the game wore on (if we ignore that horrid kick across goal). I still reckon he's a forward, not a defender.

Disagree. I think he will do a 'Leo' and become a good rebound backman. He might not be the most agile player but he reads the play, has a beautiful kick and we know he is good one on one.

[Bas]

[QUOTE=liz;401511]You point out we lack up and coming KPPs and then want to delist two we have, in White and Grundy?

[QUOTE]

I like both Grundy and White but I've been following this game for 12 years now and at the cool hard end of the day,lt is really ia meat market.

White was always going to be a draft and see proposition. Grundy is the same. Grundy more likely to stay than White but really thay both are ordinary and you need exceptional talent to play KPP these days.

[timbo]

Its definately injuries.

we lost by 3 goals to the 2nd team on the ladder yesterday.

here are the three:

teddy richards miss in the goal square.
brabazon's handball to boyd
grundys kick backwards to gilbee.

there are plenty more misses that should have been goals in the early 3rd quarter. we outplayed the dogs in 3 of the 4 quarters but just couldnt post it on the board.

we played ok, considering the number of kids in the team.

[barry]

We will have a natural clean out at years end.

Everitt, Matthews and Davis will all be gone at the end of the year.
Chances are Leo Barry, Jarad Crouch might call it quits too.
In a year or two MOL, Hall, Kenelly, will all be nearing the end.
Players like Grundy, Brennan, Playfair will always be on the cusp of being delisted, as they are used for depth rather than class.

No need for drastic action, Our list which peaked in 2005, is reaching its retirement age meaning each year there will be 3 or so senior players retiring, freeing up lots of cap room, and places on the list.

[hammo]

We will have a natural clean out at years end.

Everitt, Matthews and Davis will all be gone at the end of the year.
Chances are Leo Barry, Jarad Crouch might call it quits too.
In a year or two MOL, Hall, Kenelly, will all be nearing the end.
Players like Grundy, Brennan, Playfair will always be on the cusp of being delisted, as they are used for depth rather than class.

No need for drastic action, Our list which peaked in 2005, is reaching its retirement age meaning each year there will be 3 or so senior players retiring, freeing up lots of cap room, and places on the list.

I think this is largely correct. There will be natural attrition over the next couple of years - you can add Kirk to the list above.

The decision for the club is a) is the talent on the list good enough to have a crack in 3-5 years and b) do we accelerate our rebuilding by trading established players for draft picks.

The jury is still out on the first question, although I don't see too much class around - apart from Veszpremi. Certainly our KPP stocks are looking critically short on talent and ability. If Murphy can be fast-tracked as a CHB it may plug a hole that LRT is incapable of filling.

The second question really depends on which of our players would interest other clubs but with a supposedly great draft coming up for talls, maybe the club will look at getting 2 or 3 picks inside the first 25. Then again, trading for picks is most un-Swanslike and we're just as likely to trade for a journeyman or two.

[jenky28]

This is a tad off the topic but i gotta put it somewhere!
I thought Crouch provided good run yesterday particularly in the second half like the Crouch of 2005. If he gets bak to that he will go on imo.

[NMWBloods]

This is a tad off the topic but i gotta put it somewhere!
I thought Crouch provided good run yesterday particularly in the second half like the Crouch of 2005. If he gets bak to that he will go on imo.

Yep - that was the best I've seen him since 2005. Gives the selectors some decisions though over what we do in the future.

[swansrule100]

a few points sort of crop up here.

Our use of people in the forward line seems wrong, people are playing in completely different spots in the ressies then chucked into the senior side in an opposite role.

I think the forward line has become a weak link purely because we almost hide players there.

I think our form slump has shown we have a brighter future than a lot outside the club think.

My biggest concern is where are the key defenders comming through?, wheres someone who is earmarked to play there? is it barlow?

I think we are in the midst of rebuilding and we have done well to be 4th in a transitional year.

I would personally clean out the following players at this stage

definite

mathews- got a lot out of himself but cant make it anymore
crouch- good game on the weekend, maybe play the year out, but has little to offer beyond this season

buchanan- we have enough hard nut types, does he over anything more than say moore? who is a lot younger- though i will be surprised if he goes


my maybe pile

fosdike- though if he got fitness back has a bit to offer

davis- if we arent picking him get rid of him, though belongs in the side imho

ablett- wont happen is in the senior group, but has not developed and is treading water- needs a different role though and im a fan of his so its a tough call.

j.bolton- only because he has trade value- wouldnt delist, i think his stocks outside the club are highish

lrt- is he ever going to make it?

playfair- see above- but could stay


essentially i think we have an abundance of in and under rugged midfielders who scrap away with a lack of class and skill. We need to be looking for key defensive and forward posts.

I think we have good young mids and rucks look promising. But im not sure who the bookends are in the future.