Acquiring "ready made" players

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  • ROK Lobster
    RWO Life Member
    • Aug 2004
    • 8658

    Acquiring "ready made" players

    There seems to be a common belief that the Swans are very good at picking up other club's discard and turning them into champions. There also seems to be some belief that this is a good way to go, and a better bet than the draft lottery. IMO, it is a load of twaddle, and the Swans have not really had a great deal of success with this style of recruitment.

    Bolton is an example of its success. Clearly a very good player who could not get a consistent run in a great team. Shows that the recruitment style has some benefits if you can pick up good youngish players from the great sides - hence Geelong's lower list will be picked over by all and sundry. But this methid simply relies on good players finding themselves at strong clubs at the wrong time.

    Mattner may well become another good example. Apparently a genuine discard of the Crows (although did not come super cheap) found a niche in our backline and may become a player of similar importance to the club as Bolton. Here's hoping.

    Beyond these two I cannot think of another example of a discarded/surplus player achieving more at the Swans than where they came from.

    Ted has had more game time, but has not gone to another level with us. Ted is a good player but is not a superstar, nor will he ever be.

    Everitt - simply 2 years too late.

    Some may say Hall - he seemed to get his head right in Sydney for a few years but would have likely achieved a similar level of success anywhere else. Certainly was not a St Kilda discard - he didn't come cheap.

    Brennan, Spriggs, Chambers all come to mind as players who have justified their original club's decision to let them go after coming to Sydney.

    Vogels is another who was seen as some sort of recruiting master stroke who is no doubt tearing it up in the bush again.

    Can anyone think of others, for or against. Schauble and Williams come to mind, but they were pretty run of the mill trades IIRC.

    Our reputation for developing other's discards rests on Bolton. Our reputation for developing Melbourne's bad boys rests on Plugger and Hall (both of whom may have matured in similar ways anyway, although I am sure the club can take a lot of credit for their improvement).

    It is time for Sydney to go back to the draft for its talent.
  • Mogg0
    On the Rookie List
    • Sep 2006
    • 211

    #2
    Nah, that's crap.

    Williams - You call Paul Williams run of the mill?!
    Schwass
    Schauble
    Roos
    Hall - You can spout ay hypotheticals you want, he underachieved at St Kilda and came here and blitzed it.
    Jolly couldn't get a game under Jeff White
    Mattner
    Bolton
    Davis worked for about 3 seasons
    Grandson of South Melbourne legend Keith Schaefer.

    Comment

    • NMWBloods
      Taking Refuge!!
      • Jan 2003
      • 15819

      #3
      Most of those weren't discards - many were already great players (Williams, Schwass, Roos).

      Davis hasn't really improved a great deal since Collingwood nor did Schauble.

      Jolly couldn't get a game behind White because the latter was so good. Jolly always had the potential just not the opportunity.
      Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

      "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

      Comment

      • swansrule100
        The quarterback
        • May 2004
        • 4538

        #4
        i agree with what your saying, the main success stories from other clubs were not discards.

        I would say we have picked up too many discards over the years like allison, tingay, daffy, bennett, bomford, oconner, chambers, playfair et al

        I want to see us unearth some young talent and also target our needs, like a tall defender, we havent had a decent tall solid defender in the last 5 years
        Theres not much left to say

        Comment

        • ROK Lobster
          RWO Life Member
          • Aug 2004
          • 8658

          #5
          Originally posted by Mogg0
          Nah, that's crap.

          Williams - You call Paul Williams run of the mill?!
          Schwass
          Schauble
          Roos
          Hall - You can spout ay hypotheticals you want, he underachieved at St Kilda and came here and blitzed it.
          Jolly couldn't get a game under Jeff White
          Mattner
          Bolton
          Davis worked for about 3 seasons
          Other than Matner and Bolton, who I named, who was a "discard" in your list (other than Paul Roos who Fitzroy were so keen to discard, bit only on account of his hair do I am told). Saying that Hall underachieved at St Kilda is like saying Shannon Grant underachieved at the Swans.

          No one called Williams run of the mill.
          Last edited by ROK Lobster; 21 September 2008, 04:00 PM.

          Comment

          • ROK Lobster
            RWO Life Member
            • Aug 2004
            • 8658

            #6
            Originally posted by NMWBloods
            Jolly couldn't get a game behind White because the latter was so good. Jolly always had the potential just not the opportunity.
            Another similar example of the Bolton principle in the sense that Jolly was a good player in the wrong team at the wrong time.

            Comment

            • Yakety_Yak
              On the Rookie List
              • Sep 2006
              • 58

              #7
              Originally posted by ROK Lobster
              Another similar example of the Bolton principle in the sense that Jolly was a good player in the wrong team at the wrong time.

              Maestro,

              Very curious? How many games did you watch Jolly before he became a Swan?

              Go ahead cheat if you like, and look up his stats

              Or alternately stick with the "winning formula" and guess!

              Comment

              • NMWBloods
                Taking Refuge!!
                • Jan 2003
                • 15819

                #8
                Originally posted by Yakety_Yak
                Maestro,

                Very curious? How many games did you watch Jolly before he became a Swan?

                Go ahead cheat if you like, and look up his stats

                Or alternately stick with the "winning formula" and guess!
                I saw him quite a bit before he came to us. When we drafted him there was a lot of angst about giving up pick #15 for him, but my view was that he was a reasonable player being held back by limited game time under White. That seems to have played out.
                Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                Comment

                • ROK Lobster
                  RWO Life Member
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 8658

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Yakety_Yak
                  Maestro,

                  Very curious? How many games did you watch Jolly before he became a Swan?

                  Go ahead cheat if you like, and look up his stats

                  Or alternately stick with the "winning formula" and guess!
                  I'd hazard a guess at between 10 and 20. I certainly knew who he was before he came to Sydney and thought he was a good prospect as a second ruckman to Ball. To be honest though, I tend not to keep a record of how many games of football I watch. How many times had you seen him play to come to the conclusion that he was a hack before he got to Sydney?

                  Comment

                  • Mogg0
                    On the Rookie List
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 211

                    #10
                    Schauble and Williams come to mind, but they were pretty run of the mill trades IIRC.
                    That's where you said the whole Williams thing was run of the mill. He was a key plank in 05.

                    He was traded for draft picks in 2000 but I reckon we got the better end of that deal.
                    Grandson of South Melbourne legend Keith Schaefer.

                    Comment

                    • AussieAnge
                      On the Rookie List
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 1057

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mogg0
                      That's where you said the whole Williams thing was run of the mill. He was a key plank in 05.

                      He was traded for draft picks in 2000 but I reckon we got the better end of that deal.

                      He was talking about the trades being run of the mill not the players. IIRC we traded Grant for Schwass but I can't remember the trades for Schaubs or Williams
                      Bring it on!

                      Comment

                      • ROK Lobster
                        RWO Life Member
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 8658

                        #12
                        Originally posted by AussieAnge
                        He was talking about the trades being run of the mill not the players. IIRC we traded Grant for Schwass but I can't remember the trades for Schaubs or Williams
                        Williams might have been off contract. I recall the Swans threw him a whole lot of cash which he took following his failed business venture in Tasmania.

                        Comment

                        • ROK Lobster
                          RWO Life Member
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 8658

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mogg0
                          That's where you said the whole Williams thing was run of the mill. He was a key plank in 05.

                          He was traded for draft picks in 2000 but I reckon we got the better end of that deal.
                          Genius.

                          Comment

                          • Yakety_Yak
                            On the Rookie List
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 58

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ROK Lobster
                            I'd hazard a guess at between 10 and 20. I certainly knew who he was before he came to Sydney and thought he was a good prospect as a second ruckman to Ball. To be honest though, I tend not to keep a record of how many games of football I watch. How many times had you seen him play to come to the conclusion that he was a hack before he got to Sydney?
                            He wasn't a hack IMO! but hardly a premier ruckman, but was simply lacking a regular chance.

                            The only player I can think of who might have been recruited as "hack" might be Chambers. Some might say Playfair too, but I disagree!

                            It was a response to your OP aspertion . Troll on!

                            Comment

                            • ROK Lobster
                              RWO Life Member
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 8658

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Yakety_Yak
                              He wasn't a hack IMO! but hardly a premier ruckman, but was simply lacking a regular chance.
                              Um, that's the point. It is a limited recruiting strategy without a great deal of success to show for it and hardly enough to justify the reputation the strategy has. Bolton, Jolly are good examples of good players picked up who were not getting a chance behind a good team or a better player. However, Jolly was hardly a discard and hardly came cheap.

                              Not sure why you accuse me of trolling, but I remember that you have snuck out before and had a snipe before disappearing again.
                              Last edited by ROK Lobster; 21 September 2008, 08:18 PM.

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