Is 2009 the final harrah for the current team

[dimelb]

Goodes (groin) Bolton (groin) Malceski (knee) Kennelly (shoulder) Hall (between the ears) MOL (ankle) and we still won a final. I suspect Malceski is the unknown but with others we do know they will be right for the season start.

It is not a big "IF" these guys stand up for the year because they will be fully fit. The IF is whether the club as a whole stands up relatively injury free as in 2005 and 2006, like Geelong did in 2007 and Hawthorn in 2008.

We have gone into the finals the last 2 years the walking wounded, yet we got there as the walking wounded.

Keep them on the park, plus as Liz says get the expected improvement from the younger players and as far as I am concerned we will give more than a good account of ourselves. I am more than happy to see Moore, Bird, Vespremi and Jack taking over in the midfield and feeding the forwards with more quality delivery. Is Meredith a wildcard?

For 2009 my glass is half full, not half empty.

I think Meredith is a wildcard and Laidlaw is another - both are good prospects.

[top40]

Time and time again people (including Swans fans) underestimate Paul Roos' ability to lift a young unknown kid like Jack or Craig Bird. Look at 2003 when everyman and his dog predicted a wooden spoon. The Swans had only been out of the finals at that stage for one single season.

Sydney will not be premiers in 2009, or 2010 for that matter, but they will be in the 8 or close to the 8 by season's end. And we don't have to come last to rebuild. Also, look at teams like Hawthorn and how very quickly they can rise to the top from the bottom.

My tip is that we will again be in the serious hunt for number 5 flag by the year 2012

[Nico]

Time and time again people (including Swans fans) underestimate Paul Roos' ability to lift a young unknown kid like Jack or Craig Bird. Look at 2003 when everyman and his dog predicted a wooden spoon. The Swans had only been out of the finals at that stage for one single season.

Sydney will not be premiers in 2009, or 2010 for that matter, but they will be in the 8 or close to the 8 by season's end. And we don't have to come last to rebuild. Also, look at teams like Hawthorn and how very quickly they can rise to the top from the bottom.

My tip is that we will again be in the serious hunt for number 5 flag by the year 2012

Interesting comments by Gerard Healy on 3AW tonight. He said there has been a survey of club comps around the world that shows it is incredibly difficult for a club in any comp to win consecutive flags. Not countries or player awards but club successes. No hard info came out about why, just it appears it is very, very difficult to climb the mountain 2 seasons running.

[johnno]

...and another thing for everyone out there to ponder, in 2008, how many games did Barry Hall and Mickey O'loughlin play in together, I'm guessing not many. We either had one or the other(due to injury and ...umm cough ummm suspension), in the few games that they both were on the park together, what was our win/loss record? I dont know off the top of my head, but I'm guessing we won more then what we lost. My point is, if we can have them both out there on the park for the majority of the season, I think we will do a lot better than what most people think....again.

[ItsAllGoodes]

In theory, yes - but everyone is one year older and for us that means the frailties that showed up last year (Leo not quite so quick, MOL falling to injury, Hall that more distracted, Kirk a bit more sore and sorry, ROk more homesick etc) will only be magnified. I'd love to be surprised, certainly would could hope for more luck in 2009 (tho we probably had more than our fair share 2005-7) and there's not a huge gap between the top 6 - but realistically we'll be lucky if 2009 is a better year than 2008.

If you accept the frailties being magnified you have to also argue that the good attributes can also be magnified - Jack, Bird, Moore all improving, Vesz playing 22 games and becoming a real contributor, McVeigh improving even more etc. Perhaps one or two more youngsters unearthed (such as Currie and Meredith, amongst other possibles)

So if the core of players in the middle bracket - B2, Mattner, maybe Buchanan etc can have good seasons and Goodes and Kennelly can have better years with injury etc, there is no reason why we cant make the Finals yet again

[johnno]

...and another thing for everyone out there to ponder, in 2008, how many games did Barry Hall and Mickey O'loughlin play in together, I'm guessing not many. We either had one or the other(due to injury and ...umm cough ummm suspension), in the few games that they both were on the park together, what was our win/loss record? I dont know off the top of my head, but I'm guessing we won more then what we lost. My point is, if we can have them both out there on the park for the majority of the season, I think we will do a lot better than what most people think....again.

O.K, to answer my own question, after doing some research, I can tell you that in 2008, Hall and O'Loughlin played in 7 games together, for 5 wins and 2 losses, and one of those losses was in round 1 to StKilda by 2 points in that shocking game of football and the other was against Collingwood where everyone seems to play a shocker against them. So my point is, as before, I believe if we can keep both of them healthy, injury free and brain snap free for most games in 2009, I think we will win more games than we lose, which will mean once again we will make the 8 and possibly sneak into the top 4.

[Go Swannies]

O.K, to answer my own question, after doing some research, I can tell you that in 2008, Hall and O'Loughlin played in 7 games together, for 5 wins and 2 losses, and one of those losses was in round 1 to StKilda by 2 points in that shocking game of football and the other was against Collingwood where everyone seems to play a shocker against them. So my point is, as before, I believe if we can keep both of them healthy, injury free and brain snap free for most games in 2009, I think we will win more games than we lose, which will mean once again we will make the 8 and possibly sneak into the top 4.

Top 4 would be nice but it's only a stepping stone and we can't win a Premiership with the current game plan. I was at the Grand Final and my new partner (and halfway convert - though she's the one who got us the box seats) asked towards half time if was sad that the Swannies weren't out there. I replied that I wasn't at all as we'd be 100 points down against either of those teams.

We perfected tempo footy and it deservedly won us a flag. Now it's play on at all cost. The Cats are brilliant at boxing in their opponents but leaving attack players in the clear. The Hawks defence along the 50 m line is legendary but they are just as good at running their opponents' lines (Chance Bateman anyone?). Our stop and start footy will not get us another Premiership.

To misquote Paul Keating "it's time to throw the switch to Vaudeville, Roosy". Now it's just a matter of picking who will be the next Williams or Maxfield or Kelly. Any guesses?

[dimelb]

Top 4 would be nice but it's only a stepping stone and we can't win a Premiership with the current game plan. I was at the Grand Final and my new partner (and halfway convert - though she's the one who got us the box seats) asked towards half time if was sad that the Swannies weren't out there. I replied that I wasn't at all as we'd be 100 points down against either of those teams.

We perfected tempo footy and it deservedly won us a flag. Now it's play on at all cost. The Cats are brilliant at boxing in their opponents but leaving attack players in the clear. The Hawks defence along the 50 m line is legendary but they are just as good at running their opponents' lines (Chance Bateman anyone?). Our stop and start footy will not get us another Premiership.

To misquote Paul Keating "it's time to throw the switch to Vaudeville, Roosy". Now it's just a matter of picking who will be the next Williams or Maxfield or Kelly. Any guesses?

Williams is the player we have missed most since 2005, and Maxfield or Kelly would certainly have been useful. We still have a pretty tight defence, but we haven't put the ball into the forward 50 quickly enough or often enough. If I understand Roos correctly, that quick, frequent service is part of tempo footy. As I've said elsewhere the problem is that instead of wait then strike we have played wait, wait, then turn it over. It is the young brigade who will restore the strikepower: Bird, Moore and Jack especially. I omit Vesz because I expect him to be on the receiving end of the others' passes.

[Hartijon]

Geelong's effort in the GF prove just how tough it is to win a GF even with a team they thought was the "greatest team of the century" . We can be confident of a good showing from the 2009 team which is a good blend of experience and youth. Anybody can beat anybody in this AFL comp and it's who gets their best team playing at their peak in September wins the flag. Hey,had we kicked straighter against the Dogs, had incredible luck against the Cats the next week,we coulda been there this year. For success we need
1.Hall to play all matches and be a powerforce at CHF
2.Someone else (presently unknown)to stand up like McVeigh did
3.The defence to remain the same and hope Leo stays fit..its a great backline
4.Goodesy at his Brownlow best
5.Roosey to come up with a planB and C
6.Find someone who can replace Davis as an accurate kick under pressure.

Then ,given the above ..watch out .here comes the
SWans!!! ..am I dreaming??

[laughingnome]

5.Roosey to come up with a planB and C

Paul Roos' plans are like novacaine. Given time they'll always work.

[Darren Thomson]

I don't know about the leadership issue. I have watched the guys when they played reserves and you can pick the naturals. Mal, Vespa, Jack could be interesting, and yes Jako gets a nod from me too (well in the future anyway). We still have got Teddy, who could do very well, and the considered even pace of Lewie, not spectacular but a good person. There is still Adam, and don't we count B2? The leadership in this club is fluid, it doesn't rely on just one person.

You are quite correct sir

[BRISWAN]

Goodes (groin) Bolton (groin) Malceski (knee) Kennelly (shoulder) Hall (between the ears) MOL (ankle) and we still won a final. I suspect Malceski is the unknown but with others we do know they will be right for the season start.

It is not a big "IF" these guys stand up for the year because they will be fully fit. The IF is whether the club as a whole stands up relatively injury free as in 2005 and 2006, like Geelong did in 2007 and Hawthorn in 2008.

We have gone into the finals the last 2 years the walking wounded, yet we got there as the walking wounded.

Keep them on the park, plus as Liz says get the expected improvement from the younger players and as far as I am concerned we will give more than a good account of ourselves. I am more than happy to see Moore, Bird, Vespremi and Jack taking over in the midfield and feeding the forwards with more quality delivery. Is Meredith a wildcard?

For 2009 my glass is half full, not half empty.

This is the best post I have seen for some time and totally agree that flag winners need minimul injuries to taste ultimate sucess.

[ernie koala]

Hindsight tells me ...2006 was the"final harrah"...but not of the team.....
but of the THE STILTED STRANGLING TEMPO GAME PLAN . Worked great for a few seasons but now it should be buried in history, it's used by date has long since passed. New game plans have evolved , like Hawthorn's rolling zone and Geelong's high tempo style. We need a new game plan. Hopefully that's what Roos and co are working on this off season.