Roos..Excellent coach, Lousy recruiter

[connolly]

You seem to be saying that because you're not excited by our list of 17-22 year olds, our recruiting team is crap.

I am trying to say that

.

No what he is saying is that we haven't recruited a young ready to go outstanding player. And that is fairly obvious. And that as a consequence we have been deficient in that aspect of recruiting - a fair assessment.

[ROK Lobster]

Look, I love a spot of Roos bashing as much as the next guy... but... isn't Stewart Maxfield in charge of recruiting?

Another @@@@ing apologist.

[liz]

No what he is saying is that we haven't recruited a young ready to go outstanding player. And that is fairly obvious. And that as a consequence we have been deficient in that aspect of recruiting - a fair assessment.

Agreed that we haven't recruited a Judd, Selwood, or Palmer. (Though at a level down from those few, Bird and Vezpremi were pretty much ready to go and look capable of being very, very good players with a bit more experience.)

Whether an assessment that our recent recruiting efforts have thus been abysmal is fair depends on how much value you place on instant gratification.

[AnnieH]

Except when we actually play COllingwood.

I do believe we have one more premiership cup in our good cupboard from this century than the wobbles do.

It's just been out of reach for Mr Maltmouth.

[goswannie14]

No what he is saying is that we haven't recruited a young ready to go outstanding player. And that is fairly obvious. And that as a consequence we have been deficient in that aspect of recruiting - a fair assessment.

But that is a consequence of not having many top 10 picks. The majority of ready to go players are usually in the top few picks, with an occasional exception.

[AnnieH]

Rev, please tell me that's our baby in your pic.

[ernie koala]

Whether an assessment that our recent recruiting efforts have thus been abysmal is fair depends on how much value you place on instant gratification.

Suddenly you use the word, 'abysmal", I assume to strengthen your argument ..I used the words "ordinary at best, lamentable at worst".
You also talk of waiting before judging. Recruiting has no start or finish, it goes on continuously year after year. So you're saying recruiting can't be judged or scrutinized, because we'll always have a number of the new recruits that haven't developed yet. Obviously I'm not trying to judge whether Johnson or Hannerbry were good picks, I'm looking at our entire stock of youngsters built up over a number of years. At the PRESENT...it looks ordinary.

[stellation]

I think Maxfield took over the mantle for the 2007 draft from Barham. He might have been involved in some capacity before, but that was the first draft he got to sit at the head table and read out the numbers. And the club engaged Kinnear Beatson to complement the recruiting team in that year too.

Wasn't he the main scout in 2006 as well?

[chalbilto]

Suddenly you use the word, 'abysmal", I assume to strengthen your argument ..I used the words "ordinary at best, lamentable at worst".
You also talk of waiting before judging. Recruiting has no start or finish, it goes on continuously year after year. So you're saying recruiting can't be judged or scrutinized, because we'll always have a number of the new recruits that haven't developed yet. Obviously I'm not trying to judge whether Johnson or Hannerbry were good picks, I'm looking at our entire stock of youngsters built up over a number of years. At the PRESENT...it looks ordinary.

So that we can have a better understanding of which youngsters you find that look ordinary, from which years are you referring to?

[ernie koala]

So that we can have a better understanding of which youngsters you find that look ordinary, from which years are you referring to?

I'm refering generally to the Roos years and where the list is at now, as stated many times throughout this thread.
This is a general view of mine regarding our recruiting, and particually our recruiting strategy, over this period. If you want a list of under acheivers, there's another thread running at the moment with exactly that heading.

[Primmy]

Agreed that we haven't recruited a Judd, Selwood, or Palmer. (Though at a level down from those few, Bird and Vezpremi were pretty much ready to go and look capable of being very, very good players with a bit more experience.)

Whether an assessment that our recent recruiting efforts have thus been abysmal is fair depends on how much value you place on instant gratification.

And this series of discussions Ladies and Gentlemen, is why I encourage you all to attend any Ressies game you can. You get to make a first hand appraisal of just what our future may bring.

Coulda told you way back that I thought the Blond Brick (Peb) was going to make the big time, his intense concentration even when nowhere near the ball said it all. He never took his eyes off the contest. Could have told you that Willoughby initially did well, reached a plateau, and stayed there. And my opinions of some of the kids that dropped out of the system will serve no purpose at this stage.

[liz]

Suddenly you use the word, 'abysmal", I assume to strengthen your argument ..I used the words "ordinary at best, lamentable at worst".
You also talk of waiting before judging. Recruiting has no start or finish, it goes on continuously year after year. So you're saying recruiting can't be judged or scrutinized, because we'll always have a number of the new recruits that haven't developed yet. Obviously I'm not trying to judge whether Johnson or Hannerbry were good picks, I'm looking at our entire stock of youngsters built up over a number of years. At the PRESENT...it looks ordinary.

I thought I was quoting you when I used the word abysmal but was too lazy to go back and look. But "abysmal" / "lamentable" portray pretty much the same sentiment in this context. Apologies for incorrectly assigning a description to you.

Of course you can assess recruitment at some stage. The fact there will always be years where you can't fairly assess it is kinda irrelevant. I think we just have different ideas about how soon that is. Certainly 2008 one can't. And I would be wary indeed about making any kind of judgement about 2007 or 2006 just yet.

Going back further than that, you have to be wary about comparing clubs and what options they had. No-one would hesitate to conclude Hawthorn's 2004 draft is already an outstanding success, given they netted Roughhead and Franklin who are already top-30 (at least ) players. But they did have two top 5 picks, so you can hardly compare them with Sydney. Securing Jolly and Moore with our first two picks doesn't look like a bad return given the picks we had.

I think we can fairly say that 2003 was a bit of a bust year for the Swans, with Willoughby not making it and Schmidt yet to make any meaningful contribution. (Though if you look at the overall quality of that draft, it looks pretty thin on the ground.)

But our 2002 draft illustrates the danger of making assessments too quickly. This time last year we were looking at one pretty good player who we believed was out for the season (with an injury that might have - and still might - affect him long term). And then we had two plodders in McVeigh and Bevan (via that year's rookie draft) who were RWO favourite whipping boys.

Fast forward a year and Mal's knee is looking pretty good, while McVeigh and Bevan were the two most improved players on the list in 2008 (with Moore). McVeigh suddenly looks every bit the player we dreamed he might become. I'd say we should be pretty happy right now with what we got from that draft.

And if we've had to wait 5 years before getting a real feel for 2002, surely we should be very cautious in making any assessments about more recent drafts.

[bandwagon]

My gut feel was to largely agree with Ernie's OP. But looking at the 2002 & 2003 drafts we are probably above average. However what feels like a paucity of quality kids is probably more due to the low quantity of picks we have invested in the draft.

In 2004 we only drafted one kid (Moore).
In 2005 we didn't have any picks in the top 50.
In 2006 we picked DOk and our next pick was number 49.

I reckon our drafting is ok - I wish Ross would take the punt more often.

[ernie koala]

Just read the SMH artical re : recruiting.....Now I know who to blame for our ordinary stock of youngsters........TAMI ROOS..