I'm out of patience

[hammo]

O'Keefe - is a completely left sided player. Every coach in the comp knows he will turn to his left and they tag him on his left side. His one footedness possible cost us a grand final for gods sake and he has done nothing to rectify his predictability. He has to begin to either kick on the right or handpass on the right otherwise he should be shunted back to his forward flank;

O'Keefe had a snap from 20m out on his right foot at the end of the 3rd quarter but couldn't make the distance. It allowed the umpire to impose himself and ping Baz for another free when the shot really should have sailed into row Z.

[Lohengrin]

You lost me at that point. Some of McVeigh's best work is done in very heavy traffic, either in the middle or in front of goal, when he is able to read the drop of the ball and weave into space. Agree that he doesn't have the physical strength of a Goodes or a Judd to barge through traffic when he can't weave, but that doesn't make him an outside player.

Yep - 5 clearances for McVeigh - that's inside work.

[connolly]

You lost me at that point. Some of McVeigh's best work is done in very heavy traffic, either in the middle or in front of goal, when he is able to read the drop of the ball and weave into space. Agree that he doesn't have the physical strength of a Goodes or a Judd to barge through traffic when he can't weave, but that doesn't make him an outside player.

He is very good at possessing as he has quick reflexes, clean hands and is very evasive. But that is my point he is very easily pushed or bumped off a contest. He lacks the physical strength to knock an opponent off the ball (a Bartel he aint) and win a physical contested contest. He should be played as an outside midfielder. Roos is trying to make him into something he will never be. We need a few physically strong midfielders who can win the ball in the "hot"" physical contests. We only have two at the moment - Kirk and Bolton. We need another two. We get smashed in the contested ball when Bolton and Kirk are rested. Coaches are now tagging Kirk to nullify his physical contest. We have to play strong bodied players in the midfield. We do have the outside pace and skill with McVeigh and Goodes. Bird is too young for heavy physical contests and may be already showing the effects of a young body being put into the panel beaters. If his handpassing was up to it Pyke may be worth a try. We have to do something because we are being consistently beaten in this facet of the game which used to be our strength.

[Captain]

You lost me at that point. Some of McVeigh's best work is done in very heavy traffic, either in the middle or in front of goal, when he is able to read the drop of the ball and weave into space. Agree that he doesn't have the physical strength of a Goodes or a Judd to barge through traffic when he can't weave, but that doesn't make him an outside player.

Interesting. I argued that last week he was down on form. Everyone claimed he was an outside midfielder and wasn't being fed the ball.

People seem to have it both ways when it comes to McVeigh. The man can do no wrong.

[TheHood]

BBBH has an inflated opinion of himself that feeds into his on-ground attitude and yesterday he thought himself beyond hard defensive work after dropped marks etc. That was my first patience tester. The others:

Monty; prob won't have his contract renewed, we should have kept Schneids;

Bevo; is having an awkward year, beaten a lot in contests and just not running off as an offensive option ENOUGH times IMO;

Mal; I have no idea what his position is because he's not running hard enough as an option into space and leaving too much up to Shaw and Marty to generate a miracle off half-back; and

Bulldog; I hate to say this, but he's too small for AFL footy as a forward target. He's being made to look average. He crumbs okay if he's in the right position but that's a big IF.

[Hartijon]

Getting the message yet?

For those who labelled as defeatist any assumption that this was a rebuilding year,surely by now you are starting to get it. We cannot beat the Hawks reserve side! Even if by some second 1/2 of the season revival (which I hope happens),we make the finals the gap between our best and Geelong/St Kilda's best is an awesome chasm. Those teams equal with us or below us at least have exciting youngters playing every week and we are about to meet a few when we play the Crows and Pies..(both matches we should lose on current form and past history.)
Therefore strong supporters have been posting suggestions for the future,suggesting what youngsters should play and where we still need to recruit. This is not defeatist..this is reality! I like some of Connolly's suggestions.Certainly the big body of Pyke with handball to outside runners would be better than what we see now.Thorton must be wondering how poorly can those in the 1's can keep playing before he gets a run. Get Bevan out of defence, and if you are going to play Reg(I wouldn't ) put him at FF,MOL to the pocket.
There are lots of exciting possibilities to revive this great team.Currently we are so frustrated because nothing is being learnt by the losses we suffer.Same "play the kids" rubbish from Roos (then he doesn't),same game plan ,not changed for the whole game, same lame efforts rewarded by a game next week from serial offenders. My patience is wearing thin.

[liz]

Interesting. I argued that last week he was down on form. Everyone claimed he was an outside midfielder and wasn't being fed the ball.

People seem to have it both ways when it comes to McVeigh. The man can do no wrong.

"Everyone" claimed it, did they? When does a suggestion by one or two become "everyone"?

[goswannie14]

"Everyone" claimed it, did they? When does a suggestion by one or two become "everyone"?

Seems to be happening a lot in the last couple of weeks.

[Captain]

"Everyone" claimed it, did they? When does a suggestion by one or two become "everyone"?

Everyone could imply the whole world couldn't it?

By everyone I was referring to everyone that posted subsequently in that thread. Not one poster agreed.

Will keep things a bit simpler for you next time.

[SwansFan1972]

In any other season, I'd be equally dismissive of the "play the kids" approach (which is generally a bit of a cop out and a sales pitch to sell hope and a few more memberships - a la Richmond).

This season is different though - it is a race in three (probably only two) and although in past seasons calling it at the midway mark would have been silly, this year is unlike any in recent memory. When has a ladder had two teams so obviously superior - top two decided by mid season - and four games behind that pair two wins separating 3rd and 11th? It shows how much mediocrity there is in the league outside that top two, and that 13 teams are kidding themselves to think a flag is a possibility this year (we'll give the dogs a 5% chance, just to keep it a little bit interesting)!

What better season than to seriously turn over the list? There are signs that the spirit in the club is taking a belting, which is manifesting on-field as a noticeable deterioration in what were once key strengths (playing for each other, being hard at the contest, delivering the ball with accuracy by hand or foot). I'm not close enough to the club to know what exactly is causing it all, but we all (mostly) acknowledge that the club is in transition, so the powers that be need to make that process as smooth and as rapid as possible.

If I can indulge in one suggestion, perhaps we need to ditch the orthodoxy that a finish in the eight is a bare minimum each season, when that might actually be compromising what should be the main aim - to win another flag?

It really sucks to have to declare a season hopeless (premiership wise) this far out, but reality can't be ignored - and really, what is served by scraping and scratching into the eight this year? We need to get the best out of this year to set up for the future, so if some turnover of players costs a few spots on the ladder and/or a place in the finals, what will have been lost? At best, a final or two which we know deep down can't lead to anything meaningful.

If we aren't challenging for the flag, ladder position loses a lot of its meaning on-field, and becomes relevant only for things like getting an early jump on the next season and draft picks!

This year we need to suspend dreams of premiership glory, to have a realistic chance of enjoying them again a few seasons down the track.

(ps. there is one non-kid who would make a hell of a difference, but he is so far out of reach it will always remain a dream. Any club should move heaven and earth to get Luke Hodge on the list. Without him, Hawks would have been out of the contest by three quarter time - he's the best organising defender going around, and the best in ages).

[liz]

What better season than to seriously turn over the list?

...

At best, a final or two which we know deep down can't lead to anything meaningful.

If we aren't challenging for the flag, ladder position loses a lot of its meaning on-field, and becomes relevant only for things like getting an early jump on the next season and draft picks!

This year we need to suspend dreams of premiership glory, to have a realistic chance of enjoying them again in few seasons down the track.

I half agree with what you're saying, though I truly wonder what it does for the long term development of younger players if early in their careers they play in teams that know they have no chance of winning games. I'd also like to think - maybe erroneously - that the value that youngsters get from playing in a finals game, even winning one as we did last year, is invaluable.

There is a gap between what Roos is saying and what he is doing at the moment in terms of playing younger players. The only real "youngster" we had out there yesterday was White, in terms of games played, at least. Jack and Bird have now played over 30 games, are physically mature enough, and this year have demonstrated they are in our best 22. Grundy's not far off, though his position in the best 22 isn't as secure/obvious.

Roos' failure to play more of the younger players might just indicate he is ultra-conservative and/or hates to lose. Yet he has said a couple of times this year that he would rather lose with younger players than lose by less with the same old same old. He's still not playing them.

It might just be telling us that he doesn't believe that the younger players he has at his disposal are the players capable of rebuilding the senior team. With the injuries we've had, that doesn't mean doom and gloom for our future, it just means we aren't getting much of a chance to test it out this year. Which is a shame.

And realistically, the only two players who could feel hard done by and/or must be starting to wonder if they are in the club's long term plans are Thornton and Barlow. (That is presuming that MOD and Brabazon realise that unless their disposal at ACTAFL level improves markedly, they can't possibly expect to play senior football).

Of the rest of our promising prospects, Vez, Meredith, Johnston, Murphy are or have been injured. DOK has been injured for two years and is only now starting to get unhampered game time. Hannebury isn't available. Currie has been playing but obviously carrying injuries (and missed this week). Smith and Laidlaw have shown a propensity to reinjure themselves just when on the brink of selection, while Gilchrist and Pyke (and Orreal) are development prospects.

There is no point in getting game time into young players if they are not going to be around long enough for the club to reap the benefits.

[Lohengrin]

He's going to have to play the younger players very soon as many of the older players won't be there or won't be especially effective next year.

[Kanga]

Cheer Up

You are playing North in a few weeks. Chalk up the win now......

[Hartijon]

You are playing North in a few weeks. Chalk up the win now......

that's the problem.we can't!

[Hartijon]

Sending out an SOS

SOS time: Nick Davis: come back all is forgiven.just kick a few goals each match and win the game off your own boot,...it no longer matters about chasing your man,eating KFC etc etc.We have experienced the boring season without you and ANYTHING is better than what we have now!