Where have all the fans gone!!!!

[Bear]

There is no ongoing buzz about AFL in Sydney.

The Swans play and you get a bit of good coverage for the code, then we are drowned out for 2 weeks by 15+ other sporting franchises.. then we play again, then go quiet for 2 weeks... and the cycle continues.

We are trying hard and doing a good job to get 1/17th share, but need more AFL in this city to keep the flow going so we stay relevant as a code and a club.

[Primmy]

I knew I could count on Liz to put her stamp on this thread with a well measured approach.

Exactly! Its all there, watching kids become blokes become men. The "Ahah!" moments, when you can see at last that they get it. Its taken Lewie years to find his niche and now he has and he is playing like a man instead of looking embarrassed he got picked to play. Like watching Macca finally kick the ball between the post. Like watching Stewey fly down the wing eyes darting and delivering the ball like a dart. Like Kell climbing the pack and letting loose his happy face. Like Plugger being, well, Plugger. Like watching the evolution of the anxious Jolls to the self assured senior player. The journey of Jude from over excited labrador pup into a fierce player. Realising that the skinny kid in the practice game against Collingwood at Manuka was a gift we knew nothing about! And at present watching over White, Vespa, Merry, Happy, et al.

Its not all about the high points, its the journey as well. But years ago the Club looked after and valued the members. We had fan days, we met the players, we had the aftermatch to look forward to (traipsing to Kings Cross!!!) and when we could afford to go the the functions. There was a buzz. Somewhere along the line together with the cost cutting of the Big Barbeque, the cancelling of the North Sydney practice match, etc etc they have failed to generate excitement and positive reinforcement.

There is now a feeling of us and them, and it used to be US.

[Jewels]

I am not sure what effect you think "bottoming out" would have on the casual fan. The message of going to the bottom to get better draft picks would be lost on a casual sports fan given the AFL is the only one of the major Australian codes that has a draft. All the casual fan would see is an uncompetitive team and the media coverage would be even more scant that it currently is.

There could be an argument from a purely footballing perspective that it needs to be done. But not from a short term "growing interest in the casual fan" point of view.

And even from a footballing point of view only one premiership in history can remotely be attributed to "bottoming out" - ie Hawthorns. But not only were they fortunate (or smart) enough to do it in over a period when it netted them two fantastic forwards, they also managed to dupe both North and Freo into some incredibly delicious trades along the way.

And then look at Richmond who have been "bottoming out" for the past 25 years. Or Freo who have been bottoming out since they came into existence. You get to a point where a club forgets how to win.

Give me a competitive outfit every time, one with players who respect their jumper, their team mates and the history of the club, who give it their best most times they run out, even if sometimes its not good enough.

And hey, if we can't win a premiership every year, or even seriously contend for one, then how about taking the small pleasures out of each weekend outing, like being treated to the athletic power, grace and skill of an Adam Goodes. Like watching a skinny 17yo from the Adelaide suburbs weave his magic in front of goal as he matures into the first 300 gamer the club has seen. Or watch a scrawny, slow "reject" from southern NSW will himself into one of the mightiest warriors in the league and on occasions quite literally will his team mates into unlikely victories.

Watching Our Team win the premiership in 2005, and nearly doing it again in 2006, was absolutely wonderful. Probably it was even better for those of us who had personally experienced more of the "72 years" than I had. But I'm not going to spend every season worrying about when we'll win another. I'd rather just look forward to next game from the Monday after the last one finished, take maximum enjoyment out of the small pleasures along the way, and have faith that those running the club are busting a gut to get the club to its next premiership, however many years away that might be.

That's a beautiful post Liz, the last paragraph in particular brought a tear to my eye.
Congratulations on your ability to put into words the sheer joy (win or lose) of being a Swan.

[shaun..]

The Superpass to ANZ games was wonderfully cheap and quite a shock after dropping membership this year. $55 for the 4 games (mind you it was a Student priced ticket )

Now drop the prices for SCG games!

That was quick.. got a letter today offering a SCG 3 game Superpass for being a previous member but not renewing for 09.. awesome

[Cardinal]

Well this fan is going to miss the Pies game - it's the Swine flu you see.

But I'll be on board for the Crows.

[Flossie]

I am not sure what effect you think "bottoming out" would have on the casual fan. The message of going to the bottom to get better draft picks would be lost on a casual sports fan given the AFL is the only one of the major Australian codes that has a draft. All the casual fan would see is an uncompetitive team and the media coverage would be even more scant that it currently is.

There could be an argument from a purely footballing perspective that it needs to be done. But not from a short term "growing interest in the casual fan" point of view.

And even from a footballing point of view only one premiership in history can remotely be attributed to "bottoming out" - ie Hawthorns. But not only were they fortunate (or smart) enough to do it in over a period when it netted them two fantastic forwards, they also managed to dupe both North and Freo into some incredibly delicious trades along the way.

And then look at Richmond who have been "bottoming out" for the past 25 years. Or Freo who have been bottoming out since they came into existence. You get to a point where a club forgets how to win.

Give me a competitive outfit every time, one with players who respect their jumper, their team mates and the history of the club, who give it their best most times they run out, even if sometimes its not good enough.

And hey, if we can't win a premiership every year, or even seriously contend for one, then how about taking the small pleasures out of each weekend outing, like being treated to the athletic power, grace and skill of an Adam Goodes. Like watching a skinny 17yo from the Adelaide suburbs weave his magic in front of goal as he matures into the first 300 gamer the club has seen. Or watch a scrawny, slow "reject" from southern NSW will himself into one of the mightiest warriors in the league and on occasions quite literally will his team mates into unlikely victories.

Watching Our Team win the premiership in 2005, and nearly doing it again in 2006, was absolutely wonderful. Probably it was even better for those of us who had personally experienced more of the "72 years" than I had. But I'm not going to spend every season worrying about when we'll win another. I'd rather just look forward to next game from the Monday after the last one finished, take maximum enjoyment out of the small pleasures along the way, and have faith that those running the club are busting a gut to get the club to its next premiership, however many years away that might be.

Liz you just said everything I believe about the Swans. They cant be premiers every year so I just go out and celebrate when we win, lament when we lose.

[Vonsteinman]

...have faith that those running the club are busting a gut to get the club to its next premiership, however many years away that might be.

A number of quotes could have been drawn from this post Liz, but this is the one that sticks out for me.

It continues to astound me that there are so many on this forum who appear to lack this one quality.

I hope there is a real silent majority in Sydney. I also hope that I'm sitting near them this week. After living in Melbourne until the end of '05 and travelling regularly to Sydney, almost incredibly, it's been nearly four years since I've been able to get to a Swans home game.

I've managed to travel from remote WA to games in Perth, with mixed success - that QF in '06, sitting in amongst the travelling fans was nothing short of awesome - and of course managed to get back home for the grand final which fell in holiday time.

I was also at Subi in '07 when Cousins and co ripped the heart out of our blokes and, unable to get tickets with the Sydney supporters, I was forced to sit amongst a bunch of idiots from Perth and endure taunts regarding the freshness of the scarf around my neck.

I could have pointed out that I'd been following my team for longer than their's had existed and that I was in fact on about my fifth scarf, the fourth being lost somewhere in South Melbourne in the wee hours of a September night in 2005. Indeed that my first scarf was one that was begrudgingly knitted by my Carlton-supporting mum so many years earlier.

I chose instead to defend the relatively new supporters of the club, because without these people, my club probably wouldn't be around today.

Now, from the remote NT, I will be driving for hours later today and flying in tomorrow (probably there's no need to point out that with fuel included, the round trip is going to sting me for a fair bit more than the price of a Sydney membership). And I'm not sure how I'll react if I find myself sitting near someone in red and white who is bagging out the coach/players/club.

Thankfully at least I can be guaranteed that the seat next to me will be filled by one who understands. My Sydney-based sister, who had to endure 11 years of the drought before I was born. She was lucky enough to get the seat next to my Dad in '05 -he'd endured about 65 of the 72 years.

These people appreciate the efforts that the club has made since to keep winning games on aging legs and with tired bodies.

They, like every Swans supporter, are excited when a Brett Meredith or Mike Pyke type get their chance. But they also have the faith that you refer to, that week after week, everyone at the club from the CEO to the bootstudder (or the equivalent now that his job is redundant) is doing the best to keep the club moving forward (or "onwards" if you like...)

[ernie koala]

I am not sure what effect you think "bottoming out" would have on the casual fan. The message of going to the bottom to get better draft picks would be lost on a casual sports fan given the AFL is the only one of the major Australian codes that has a draft. All the casual fan would see is an uncompetitive team and the media coverage would be even more scant that it currently is.

There could be an argument from a purely footballing perspective that it needs to be done. But not from a short term "growing interest in the casual fan" point of view.

And even from a footballing point of view only one premiership in history can remotely be attributed to "bottoming out" - ie Hawthorns. But not only were they fortunate (or smart) enough to do it in over a period when it netted them two fantastic forwards, they also managed to dupe both North and Freo into some incredibly delicious trades along the way.

And then look at Richmond who have been "bottoming out" for the past 25 years. Or Freo who have been bottoming out since they came into existence. You get to a point where a club forgets how to win.

Give me a competitive outfit every time, one with players who respect their jumper, their team mates and the history of the club, who give it their best most times they run out, even if sometimes its not good enough.

So what is it your suggesting in this last paragraph ?..that only the current players will respect their jumper,club history etc....and new recruits won't ??
This is just nice sounding sentiment, not reality. The overall culture of the club determines these things.
In terms of bottoming out... Obviously I'm not being clear enough. I am not suggesting purposely bottoming out. What I said was, that if as a result of changing personel and gamestyle the team goes down the ladder for a few years, so be it.(Adelaide come to mind as a club which has drafted well, brought plenty of young players in, changed their gamestyle and they are still more than competitive and they haven't bottomed out.) I think it's a better option than to go down the path of minimal drafting and an unchanged game style played by essentually the same players. We might still be competitive but without some major changes the next couple of years look challenging, and sadly predictable, to say the least. And membership and attendances will continue to dwindle. The writing was on the wall at the end of the 2007 season but the Swans have stubornly stayed on the same course and chose not to take their medicine, it's now looking like a bitter pill laced with compromised drafts.

[liz]

The writing was on the wall at the end of the 2007 season but the Swans have stubornly stayed on the same course and chose not to take their medicine, it's now looking like a bitter pill laced with compromised drafts.

Putting aside our clearly different philosophical outlooks (and the differences we perceive in the onfield game style), at a very practical level, what would have been different in 2008 and 2009 to date had the Swans taken the medicine you think they should have taken?

Who wouldn't have been on the list in 2008? And 2009? Traded or delisted? If traded, what could we reasonably have got for them? Who wouldn't have played as much senior football as they have in those seasons? Who would have played in their place? (Don't forget to allow for contractual status at the end of each season.)

We can all probably nominate a couple of changes but the ones I could nominate I reckon would have been pretty marginal in terms of impact on current list. Clearly you can see more significant changes that would have had greater impact.

[ernie koala]

Putting aside our clearly different philosophical outlooks (and the differences we perceive in the onfield game style), at a very practical level, what would have been different in 2008 and 2009 to date had the Swans taken the medicine you think they should have taken?

Who wouldn't have been on the list in 2008? And 2009? Traded or delisted? If traded, what could we reasonably have got for them? Who wouldn't have played as much senior football as they have in those seasons? Who would have played in their place? (Don't forget to allow for contractual status at the end of each season.)

We can all probably nominate a couple of changes but the ones I could nominate I reckon would have been pretty marginal in terms of impact on current list. Clearly you can see more significant changes that would have had greater impact.

In hindsight, anyone could name a list of unproductive players from 08/09 who should of been traded or delisted, what's the point of that.
Let me ask you some questions...
Do you think the Swans are well placed re..............
1. The average age of the list going into a period of compromised drafts?
2. The number of experienced players who will either retire or be delisted just prior to the period of compromised drafts (ie next 15 months)?
3. How effective the Swans gamestyle is against quality opposition (ie probable finalists)
4. The number of games the Swans win in wet conditions recently?
5. The number of away games the Swans have won in 08/09?
6. The overall depth of the Swans list at present?
7. The number of games played by players recruited over the past 4 years compared to other clubs?

[Bloody Hell]

In hindsight, anyone could name a list of unproductive players from 08/09 who should of been traded or delisted, what's the point of that.
Let me ask you some questions...
Do you think the Swans are well placed re..............
1. The average age of the list going into a period of compromised drafts?
2. The number of experienced players who will either retire or be delisted just prior to the period of compromised drafts (ie next 15 months)?
3. How effective the Swans gamestyle is against quality opposition (ie probable finalists)
4. The number of games the Swans win in wet conditions recently?
5. The number of away games the Swans have won in 08/09?
6. The overall depth of the Swans list at present?
7. The number of games played by players recruited over the past 4 years compared to other clubs?

All the points you make (in the form of questions) are directly related to what we were doing 4 years ago.

We are on the way down. Are we at our lowest ebb? I doubt it. The main problem we have is our middle age players aren't good enough. Aside from McVeigh I can't see anyone who could be argued to have the potential to be mentioned amongst the best in the league.

Kirk - O'Keefe - Bolton - Hall - O'Loughlin

Some dark days ahead.

[Frog]

Real supporters stick whatever the circumstances. I've been a member for as long as I can remember and my team is located a thousand kilometers away. I travel three hours to every Victorian game. If I lived in Sydney I'd be at every game with bells on.

You are not married, you don't have kids, certainly not teenagers, most definitely not ones that go to Uni, you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth OR you have a very well paying job that only requires you to work 3 days a week ...

Am I close?

Neither are you on your statement of what a real supporter sticks to. Use IMO next time. I take offence to what you said there.

[The Big Cat]

Kirk - O'Keefe - Bolton - Hall - O'Loughlin

Some dark days ahead.

I think you may have shot yourself in the foot! Everyone's criticising our drafting and the need to get high picks. BUT:

Kirk - Rookie List
O'Keefe - Pick 56
O'Loughlin - Pick 40
Hall - Trade
Bolton - (Craig? - Preseason draft) On your list, only Jude Bolton was a high draft pick - 8

[The Big Cat]

Kirk - O'Keefe - Bolton - Hall - O'Loughlin

Some dark days ahead.

I think you may have shot yourself in the foot! Everyone's criticising our drafting and the need to get high picks. BUT:

Kirk - Rookie List
O'Keefe - Pick 56
OI'Loughlin - Pick 40
Hall - Trade
Bolton - (Craig? - Preseason draft) On your list, only Jude Bolton (if he's the Bolton you mean) was a high draft pick - 8

[The Big Cat]

You are not married, you don't have kids, certainly not teenagers, most definitely not ones that go to Uni, you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth OR you have a very well paying job that only requires you to work 3 days a week ...

Am I close?

So far off you couldn't shoot me with a long range missile. I am married. I have five kids. They all have gone to Uni while I was a member of the Swans. I worked a full time job all my working life (as a teacher, so pretty ordinary pay) until I retired a couple of years ago only to see my super get obliterated by the financial crisis. I was born with a sheep dog in my face on a small unprofitable farm and would not have had tertiary education except for the studentships of the late sixties and seventies.

I see supporting my team as a priority. Oh, by the way, I don't drink or smoke which no doubt many failed members put before the club. But fair enough, each to their own. I know that some Swans supporters would have to choose between necessities and buying a membership and obviously they can't afford it.

But don't cry poor if you put alcohol and cigarettes before other choices such as supporting your club. Certainly don't cite poor form as an excuse. Or not being able to buy the odd ticket. Or the ticketing "Fiasco". All membership money goes directly to the club. Buy a ticket at the gate and the Swans get bugger-all!

In my opinion of course.