A discussion on drafting

[Yakety_Yak]

Ahh! ...Hammo-Ammo.... ever heard the Aesop fable story about Chicken-Little, Henny-Penny et al ...... "The Sky is falling"?

So you think 3 years ago.. Swans having 2 consecutve GF's.... near back to back premiers, with the benefit of your "crystal ball hindsight doom predicter machine"..... (CBHPM) what does it tell you?

-Who would you have played 2nd ruck 06 & 07 if not (in place of) Spida Everitt?

-If Mitch Thorp or Tim Boyle could be picked up cheaply 09 draft (say 3rd rounders for ex Hawks top 10 picks) does the CBHP machine tell you they would be as useless as Brennan.!? ... Instructing you NOT look at them????

-Does it indicate that Kirk, O'loughlin, Hall , L Barry, ought to have been shopped around there and then? (Note ROk'y-Cocky and Jude'y-Beu'dy have been offered as trades with NO TAKERS!) They have regularly been still in Swans best on ground!

A Rocca and to a lesser extent S Grant... showed first hand that recruiting to Sydney is a perilous endeavour, to be approached with caution! The "go home factor" ... thereafter favours selection of locals or those select who indicate & profile suggests that are willing to stay happily long term.


Swans have done their best with late picks and maintaining necessary finals momentum.

Hawks, most important drafting ingredient ,was draft selction of not necessiarly "best available" but ....to fill required "player type" roles. Swans now need tall KPP's

..... in some versions of the story it turns out to be an accorn (not the sky)... in others Hammo Ammo and Chicken Little and Henny Penny et al get eaten by foxy loxy!

The Sydney Swans "sky" hasn't fallen YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Big Cat]

The Sydney Swans "sky" hasn't fallen YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good post. We swapped a first round choice for Darren Jolly! (that's a keeper!) We swapped an early second round choice for Nick Davis! (I don't think anyone would take the chance of going back in time and reversing that pick!)

In 2003 people were saying our list was lousy and most picked us to be perennial cellar dwellers. But look what happened. Out of some late draft picks and rookie selections came the likes of ROK, Kirk, Kennelly etc.

And remember we have another O'Keefe waiting in the wings plus another Irishman.

Is there a glitch in the matrix?

[Lucky Knickers]

Except holding back another youngster??

Not sure which one at the time tho'. If you look at who we cut, who would have been ready, has anyone gone on to another club's senior list?

[Lucky Knickers]

In a few years Carlton will be doing same..

You can't be serious? They've done that already....(falling down the ladder). And we all know they're coming!

[liz]

Except holding back another youngster??

Brennan was still a relative youngster himself, just one physically ready to contribute straight away, rather than wait for 3 seasons to get strong enough.

If you take that observation to its extreme, why don't we delist Currie, White, Jack, Vez et al because they are occupying spots we could use to recruit other youngsters?

[Darren Thomson]

You can't be serious? They've done that already....(falling down the ladder). And we all know they're coming!

CArlton are about as good as they are going to get, I think is the point now, Judd isn't getting better with age, Stevens is getting on a bit(still a good player) and the younger midfielders are stepping up a bit, but Fev wil have a coupple more good years what's he now 28? I can't see them winning a flag with the crew they have now after how many years of tanking? ???? I think this is the point, and the list of players we have traded for and been successful with is endless as has beenpointed out in this thread. Gpo all the way back to Plugger and Roos and start counting. People come to club and those that left, well A Rocca I didn't lose sleep when that big girl left, needed his Mum, people have stayed because it is a good footy club, and they are well coached, which I believe is the reason for our continued succes thru the years when all and sundry in the experts boxes had us marked as the spooners. But even good coaching can only take players so far when they lack natural gifts like Judd or a Franklin, tall men don't get any shorter, but mdgets find it hard to play tall, ROK and Leo being exceptions.

[BSA5]

You can't be serious? They've done that already....(falling down the ladder). And we all know they're coming!

They're not coming. They got there with a minute to go in Round 6 against the Hawks. After Fev's miss, they sheepishly put their pants back on while their fans tried to console them that overrating oneself happens to all teams. Now they're watching TV awkwardly with each other, trying to ignore the white elephant that is the (figurative) premature ejaculation of the Carlton Football Club.

[Darren Thomson]

They're not coming. They got there with a minute to go in Round 6 against the Hawks. After Fev's miss, they sheepishly putt their pants back on while their fans tried to console them that overrating oneself happens to all teams. Now they're watching TV awkwardly with each other, trying to ignore the white elephant that is the (figurative) premature ejaculation of the Carlton Football Club.

Well put

[Young Blood]

When I look at the state of our list, I worry that the sky is about to fall in.

We have at least 12 current players who I doubt have what it takes to perform at senior level in 2010 and beyond:
* 3 players aged 31-32 who will surely retire at year's end: MO'L, Crouch, Barry
* 2 former members of the best 22 who have not performed regularly at senior level for some time: Ablett, Buchanan
* 5 players now aged 22-23 who are yet to show they have what it takes: Moore, Grundy, Barlow, Brabazon, Laidlaw
* 2 players with apparently chronic injury problems: Playfair, Schmidt

That's 12 out of a senior list of 38, and I haven't counted our two oldest players, or the 5 unknown quantities who are yet to play a game. We can't hope to be a contender again until we cut the dead wood.

[ernie koala]

They're not coming. They got there with a minute to go in Round 6 against the Hawks. After Fev's miss, they sheepishly put their pants back on while their fans tried to console them that overrating oneself happens to all teams. Now they're watching TV awkwardly with each other, trying to ignore the white elephant that is the (figurative) premature ejaculation of the Carlton Football Club.

Beautifully put BSA5. Having watched Carltons insipid second half last night, 13 goals to 2, Bombers with 21 fit players (Watson injured), Fev refusing to follow his man down the field, total reliance on Judd (who was well beaten by Welsh)... they were awful. They need more than a nasal spray.

[Ruda Wakening]

So you think 3 years ago.. Swans having 2 consecutve GF's.... near back to back premiers, with the benefit of your "crystal ball hindsight doom predicter machine"..... (CBHPM) what does it tell you?

That Brisbane played in 4 consecutive grand finals and still managed to do a good job of re/building their list?

[ernie koala]

That Brisbane played in 4 consecutive grand finals and still managed to do a good job of re/building their list?

Spot on...Adelaide also, with simillar picks to us, seem to be already on the rise with a good group of young players coming through.

[liz]

That Brisbane played in 4 consecutive grand finals and still managed to do a good job of re/building their list?

Brisbane's achievement in playing in 4 grand finals was outstanding. But after scraping into the finals in their first non-GF year in 2005, they have finished outside the top 8 for the last 3 seasons. And despite retaining much of the core of their very best players from their "dynasty", including Black, Brown and Power.

Port were almost as good during that period as the Lions - indeed they were as good during the H&A but just fell to bits in the finals, 2004 excluded. Since they started to "rebuild" they have had one excellent year, 100+ pt GF thrashing aside, and have been pretty pathetic in the other two completed seasons. This year looks to be more of the same. They certainly don't appear to be any more competitive a unit than the Swans, despite being arguably a couple of years further in the "rebuild" and having had access to significantly higher draft picks than the Swans.

West Coast managed to be so pathetic just two years after winning a GF (and supposedly embarking on a dynasty of their own) that they qualified for a priority pick - and could yet get a pre-first round priority pick in 2009.

All this goes to show just how hard it is to stay at or near the top of the ladder for an extended period and to bounce back quickly, even while retaining a core of superb players.

[Ruda Wakening]

Brisbane's achievement in playing in 4 grand finals was outstanding. But after scraping into the finals in their first non-GF year in 2005, they have finished outside the top 8 for the last 3 seasons. And despite retaining much of the core of their very best players from their "dynasty", including Black, Brown and Power.

Guess it depends on who you called their very best players during the premiership years.

Whilst they still do have the ones you mentioned and of course they're guns -these days they're also moving forward without others such as Voss, Leppitsch, Michael, Lynch, Johnson, Scott, Lappin, Akermanis, Hart, etc.

My point is that after four consecutive grand finals, imo, they still drafted wisely enough to bounce back without bottoming right out.

The years after the grand finals were hardly disasters. They finished 11th, 13th, 10th and 10th... and still (usually) chose not to take the easy option of just topping their list up hoping for a quick fix.

Players that weren't high picks such as Adcock, McDonald, Drummond, Rischitelli, Hooper, Patful, Sherman, Merret and co, are the ones that were picked during the premiership years. Not one of them were taken before pick 30 but all of them have played a part in them currently sitting 5th on the ladder.

Anyway, it's probably one of those 'matter of opinion' discussions, really.

I like the way they've gone about it and i think they've drafted quite well especially given the cattle they've lost.

[Bas]

I still think the Swans management miss the point when using the excuse that they have to prop up the list in the Sydney market.

The Sydney market is not about winning, I think its about entertaining. How boring is it to watch the SWans squeeze out a win after hugging the boundary all night. It is no wonder people stop going even when the Swans are winning.

The Club should refocus the game plan and make it more exciting to watch and create another identity like Plugger was during his time at Sydney.

They tried with Biffo Barry but it didn't work. We need another key position hero. Well several would be nice.

Time to think outside the square. Lower admission, food and drink prices and watch the crowds come back.