Battle lines drawn

[floppinab]

Roos draws battle lines with Team GWS - AFL.com.au

While Team GWS will have exclusive access to southern NSW, there is set to be a fierce battle for the talent-rich region of north-western Sydney

And this provides further food for thought

About Team GWS

The location of that line east of Baulkham Hills is going to provide a deal of consternation among both clubs given success and number of junior clubs in that area. Will be interesting to see this one played out.

[Mug Punter]

Jusat read that Team GWS link.

What an absolute w@nk! Full of corporate speak and weasel words.

That site, more than anything, illustrates this shambolic project, A plastic team that no-one in Sydney really wanted in the first team being forced down our throats. There is one reason and one reason for this team apart from Demteriou's ego and that is to generate TV money.

It will be divisive and generate poor crowds, I can see Team GWS being an absolute embarassment.

[Blood]

It will be divisive and generate poor crowds, I can see Team GWS being an absolute embarassment

Hmmm, i'm not so sure.

The AFL are geniuses when it comes to managing their product and whilst GWS will be up against it initially, i can see the AFL's patience and deep pockets being the key ingredient to the clubs eventual (relative) success.

[Mug Punter]

Hmmm, i'm not so sure.

The AFL are geniuses when it comes to managing their product and whilst GWS will be up against it initially, i can see the AFL's patience and deep pockets being the key ingredient to the clubs eventual (relative) success.

Just my opinion of course but I just feel that the AFL have made a massive massive mistake here. The Swans have been busting their ar$es for nigh on 30 years now and are still just existing (let's see how we are in two years time if we aren't back as a Finals team)

As a Swans fan who attended their first match against Melbourne there is no way I will be giving Team Demetriou one cent of my hard earned and I think that many Swans fans share my hard-line view.

So, where are these fans going to some from given that very few Swans fans will jump ship and many will have a positively antagonistic view against the new Franchise (HATE that word but they are just a business model not a real club)? Will the League heartland of Sydney suddenly start watcing AFL just because it is 40 minutes closer? I doubt it and suspect that the vast majority of GWS's "constituency" will remain as apathetic as they are now.

For mine, it is Club Cuckoo Land of the highest order. Clearly Bonzo wants to leave a legacy and I reckon he will with two really really ordinary clubs.

Given the Swans' bitter experiences the only way I can see this happening is for massive subsidation financially and draft-wise over a 20 - 30 year period. Remember this hare-brained idea was dreamt up in the boom and we are now in a prolonged bust. Will the Melbourne clubs continue to support this once they start to feel the pinch and teeter on going under when Team Demetriou and trouserring $5 - 10M extra than anyone else?

Also, I wouldn't expect the current truce to last long between the Swans and Team Demetriou. The NSWAFL are clearly in the GWS camp which I see as a massive conflict of interest. If the Swans get shafted with this, and I believe that this is inevitable, then expect a bloody divisive battle from which there will only be one loser and that is the game of AFL in Sydney...

[Lucky Knickers]

The key difference I see to GWS versus the Swans is the massive funding commitment and structures that the AFL are defining. I can't see that GWS and GC17 are comparable to the Swans experience of the 80s
Of course NSWAFL are going to support GWS. In doing so, they are ensuring a big slice of the $100m slated for spending.
We have already seen that the AFL are putting money where their mouth is in terms of creating the 4 academies.
Are we in a prolonged bust? What is the basis for that view? We are certainly in a period where there is pressure on the corporate sponsors, however, the AFL does have a fair amount of money in the bank given the latest TV rights deal.
I think there is going to be some impact on the Swans undoubtedly but I would hope that a stronger code in NSW will have medium to long terms benefits for the Swans.
I think that the AFL is also trying not to go head-to-head with NRL in terms of not position themselves as an "or" proposition but more as an "and". Die hard leagu-ies won't give up their team but maybe they will embrace an AFL club as well.
I'm really looking forward to the opportunity to watch more live football without an interstate trip involved.

[Mug Punter]

All those points you make are reasonable when seen as a "business case".

My argument is quite simple. I don't believe Sydney has enough interest in AFL to sustain a viable 2nd team that is self-sufficient for 20-30 years. This team was not borne out of any grass-roots campaign but rather out of some business "growth strategy".

Personally I won't have a bar of the new mob but if enough "consumers" share your view then that wil help. Certainly they will need substantial Swans fans to "adopt" them as a second team for any chance of success.

Look at the grass roots of Sydney. Yeah we may have more kiddies playing Auskick or in schools but at the senior club level and U16/U18 level the code has not really advanced much in the last 10 - 15 years despite the enormous investment. Hardly a good sign for predicting huge growth.

Gonzo is obviously taking an "if we build it they will come" approach and I guess only time will tell. Tellingly this experiment will need the support of several AFL administrations over 20-30 years with enough bottle to carry it through when the going gets tough. Gonzo will perservere as it is his "legacy" but I wouldn't place any bets on his successors....

I also fail to see how suddenly enough corporate support will suddenly materialise without the Swans being massively affected.

[Lucky Knickers]

All those points you make are reasonable when seen as a "business case".

My argument is quite simple. I don't believe Sydney has enough interest in AFL to sustain a viable 2nd team that is self-sufficient for 20-30 years. This team was not borne out of any grass-roots campaign but rather out of some business "growth strategy".

Given it took 25 years for the Swans, I think that time frame is not unrealistic., although I would hope that it would come down to 10-15 given the AFL made little investment in the Sydney market outside of the initial marketing campaign with the lads emerging on the steps of the Opera House. After the novelty factor wore off and the challenges of the private ownership and funding battles, there was not much done to support the club for many years. It's hard to compare grass-roots such WCE, Freo, Crows and Port versus targeted growth strategy that lead to the Swans and Lions.

Personally I won't have a bar of the new mob but if enough "consumers" share your view then that wil help. Certainly they will need substantial Swans fans to "adopt" them as a second team for any chance of success.
.

That's your choice of course but hopefully they might win you over.

Look at the grass roots of Sydney. Yeah we may have more kiddies playing Auskick or in schools but at the senior club level and U16/U18 level the code has not really advanced much in the last 10 - 15 years despite the enormous investment. Hardly a good sign for predicting huge growth.

I agree 100% and I think that there is a big shift in the AFLs approach and they might finally be listening. There were interesting press conference from the Swans/GWS and Lions last week talking about the imperative of making AFL a junior rep players sport of choice. Hopefully investing in the 4 academies will help bridge that gap from juniors to NSW scholarship players.

Gonzo is obviously taking an "if we build it they will come" approach and I guess only time will tell. Tellingly this experiment will need the support of several AFL administrations over 20-30 years with enough bottle to carry it through when the going gets tough. Gonzo will perservere as it is his "legacy" but I wouldn't place any bets on his successors...d.

It goes without saying that this is an impossible proposition without time and money being committed and spent appropriately. I'm not sure about your comments on ADs successors. I think it reasonable to conclude that there is broad support on the AFL board for growth and I think that next TV rights deal will be a big driver for that.

I also fail to see how suddenly enough corporate support will suddenly materialise without the Swans being massively affected.

I agree that this is the biggest challenge for the Swans. Given NSW is the biggest TV market and the TV rights are paramount, I would hope that two teams and double the exposure would bring the sponsors running. I'm sure the AFL will too. The challenge for the Swans will be to ride out the novelty factor of a new team so it's good to see the club correct some of the arrogant and small minded choices and decisions they've made with regard to membership.

[Mug Punter]

Again, all fair points.

I also accept the fact that the Swans will now need to service their members better. Who knows one day we may even be grown up enough up here to vote in our own chairman once Mao-Tse Colless falls off the perch....

From my view this is a big big play by the AFL. It will either be a miserable failure that will leave them looking like fools and cause massive ructions or it will open up what is the last substantial untapped AFL market in Australia. The stakes are high and despite what they say they are taking on the NRL front on.

I personally think they have massively under-estimated the task at hand and how they react in Season 3 when they are playing in front of 5,000 people on freebies at the Sydney Showgrounds (what a soulless place compared to the SCG) will be telling.

In a perverse way the Swans are really in a no-lose situation here. If the AFL do _really_ open up the West it will create a pie probably double than what the Swans have now and they both benefit. If the Swans are decimated corporate-wise and supporter-wise then the AFL are, I believe, morally bound to underwrite them whilst this circus is going on.

What would be totally unaceptable to the Swans and everyone that has stuck it out there since 1982 is for the AFL to bankroll a completely unviable entity that makes the Swans future uncertain....

[BRISWAN]

Can't see a second team being any more succesful in Sydney tha Freo in Perth

[Bas]

I can't wait for them to start. I'll get more value out of my AFL membership.

I think the AFL's intention is to build a new supporter base that are not yet AFL supporters.

A market monopoly is not good for consumers. Bring on the competition.

[BSA5]

Can't see a second team being any more succesful in Sydney tha Freo in Perth

Off-field Freo have been quite a big success. And if it weren't for @@@@ty management, they'd have had a fair bit of on-field success too.

[goswannie14]

As a Swans fan who attended their first match against Melbourne there is no way I will be giving Team Demetriou one cent of my hard earned and I think that many Swans fans share my hard-line view.

Welcome to reality. That's how it works for the majority of people in Victoria. You support your team, no-one else, after all you support your team, not the league.

Maybe, because I have grown up in Victoria and understand this type of support, I don't understand the "I'll join up with GWS and go and support them when the Swans aren't playing in town" mentality.

[Cheer Squad]

What would be totally unaceptable to the Swans and everyone that has stuck it out there since 1982 is for the AFL to bankroll a completely unviable entity that makes the Swans future uncertain....

My concerns exactly. The AFL will care about Team GWS in a way that the VFL never did for the Swans.

[Beaussie]

Jusat read that Team GWS link.

What an absolute w@nk! Full of corporate speak and weasel words.

That site, more than anything, illustrates this shambolic project, A plastic team that no-one in Sydney really wanted in the first team being forced down our throats. There is one reason and one reason for this team apart from Demteriou's ego and that is to generate TV money.

It will be divisive and generate poor crowds, I can see Team GWS being an absolute embarassment.

LOL and the basketcase that was the South Melbourne Swans being shipped off to a new market in Sydney was somehow different?

[Lucky Knickers]

Maybe, because I have grown up in Victoria and understand this type of support

Spoilt. You can breath AFL if you want. Head down to your local oval and watch a game, watch VFL or head to MCG if it takes your fancy to see a big blockbuster (where is the green with envy smilie).

My concerns exactly. The AFL will care about Team GWS in a way that the VFL never did for the Swans.

I certainly bloody hope so! Isn't that a good thing - that they don't repeat old mistakes and try and give this new club every opportunity to succeed?