Well done, Roosy

[swansrule100]

Christ some people are precious. Aker's article was poorly expressed and edited, and obviously (typical Aker) a grab at the headlines, but what he said actually made sense. Even if clubs on the whole are accepting of homosexuality, there will always be players at a club, like any workplace, that are to varying degrees uncomfortable with homosexuality. The difference is that in a workplace like an office, it's easy to avoid any situations that certain people might find uncomfortable or "compromising", and so any disruption is minimal. That's not the case at a footy club, where there is intense physical interaction, and it must be said, undertones of potential homoeroticism. People of any degree of homophobia would be forced to confront their discomfort, and intentionally or not, would act differently towards a gay teammate. Just as the law of averages says that there will be some gay guys at footy clubs, the law of averages also says there will be some homophobes, whatever the dominating culture, and in a footy club, neither have anywhere to hide.

Aker is a bit of a wanker, sure, but to say that article means he's homophobic is short-sighted and completely missing the point.

yeh i get what u mean. To me the issue is he didnt say what he wanted to say very well and it just brings all the focus onto him and his club and its not worth the hassle.
you cant write an article about homosexuality or racism and other topics without lighting a fire. People just jump on it, so not sure why aka bothered.

The other thing is someone somewhere at the club, player association or the herald sun at least approved this article surely? now they run and hide and turn on him a bit

[BSA5]

Gay men and lesbians should be able to come out whenever it feels right for them. Who is he to tell them otherwise. The problem isnt the gay person coming out, its the bigotry they may have to deal with thats the problem. But if they want to tackle that, as so many gays like myself have done, that's up to them.

Isn't that the point though? Aker is seeing all this stuff saying clubs are completely homophobia free, yada yada yada, and has probably thought to himself, "hey, that's not quite right, I could totally see a gay bloke coming out and it being absolutely hell for them". So he's gone and written a very poorly expressed article to this effect. He's not saying gay people shouldn't be allowed to come out, just that in his opinion, a player might be better off waiting until they've stopped playing for there own sake, at least while there are still elements of homophobia amongst footy clubs. It seems to me that the main reason Aker has stirred so much controversy is that he's not parroting the line fed out by the AFL, club CEOs, coaches, etc (which aren't necessarily untrue either, just that they don't address the whole issue). He's saying that it's not all fine and dandy with regards to acceptance at footy clubs, nor would it be in any workplace, and that something does need to be done about it before a gay player could come out comfortably. Of course he adds his own recommendation at the end, but he's an opinionated guy, we all know that, but it's not like the points he's making don't have a great deal of sense and truth about them.

yeh i get what u mean. To me the issue is he didnt say what he wanted to say very well and it just brings all the focus onto him and his club and its not worth the hassle.
you cant write an article about homosexuality or racism and other topics without lighting a fire. People just jump on it, so not sure why aka bothered.

Aker bothered because he's attention seeking and opinionated. This isn't always a bad thing, but in this instance it blew up in his face. It would have been better had the article not been written, but my point is that it doesn't reflect Aker's homophobia, it reflects that he's a wanker, and we all knew that already, so why is it so newsworthy?

[Damien]

Christ some people are precious. Aker's article was poorly expressed and edited, and obviously (typical Aker) a grab at the headlines, but what he said actually made sense. Even if clubs on the whole are accepting of homosexuality, there will always be players at a club, like any workplace, that are to varying degrees uncomfortable with homosexuality. The difference is that in a workplace like an office, it's easy to avoid any situations that certain people might find uncomfortable or "compromising", and so any disruption is minimal. That's not the case at a footy club, where there is intense physical interaction, and it must be said, undertones of potential homoeroticism. People of any degree of homophobia would be forced to confront their discomfort, and intentionally or not, would act differently towards a gay teammate. Just as the law of averages says that there will be some gay guys at footy clubs, the law of averages also says there will be some homophobes, whatever the dominating culture, and in a footy club, neither have anywhere to hide.

Aker is a bit of a wanker, sure, but to say that article means he's homophobic is short-sighted and completely missing the point.

The key issue in the article is that the message was, come out and it will be a circus, the AFL isn't ready and you could ruin the fabric of your Club. I don't think he meant to be homophobic, but what he did was probably worse. Instead you end up with gay/lesbian teenagers playing sport at a high level who are now additionally stresed about what sort of life they will lead if they continue down that path and of course if any AFL players are in the closet currently, well they just put a deadlock on it.

To be honest to say "he isn't homophobic', really misses the point here. Aker got want he wanted, publicity, and anyone who is actually or could be an elite sportsperson who happens to be homosexual and not out, got another reason to stay repressed, in the closet and probably deeply unhappy.

We all get there are a varying points of view in the community, but Aker's article is the height of stupidity. It's like writing an article "I have no problems with at all, love them, but I'd suggest they don't move into my area because they will change it to much and the oldies will hate it" Might be true, might make sense, but it's racist and doesn't help anyone. What Jason did can a) incite homophobia b) hurt people who are professional sportspeople and gay.

I am very happy that so many great AFL figures have come out and showed us we have moved on from the 1950s.

[cruiser]

The key issue in the article is that the message was, come out and it will be a circus, the AFL isn't ready and you could ruin the fabric of your Club. I don't think he meant to be homophobic, but what he did was probably worse. Instead you end up with gay/lesbian teenagers playing sport at a high level who are now additionally stresed about what sort of life they will lead if they continue down that path and of course if any AFL players are in the closet currently, well they just put a deadlock on it.

To be honest to say "he isn't homophobic', really misses the point here. Aker got want he wanted, publicity, and anyone who is actually or could be an elite sportsperson who happens to be homosexual and not out, got another reason to stay repressed, in the closet and probably deeply unhappy.

We all get there are a varying points of view in the community, but Aker's article is the height of stupidity. It's like writing an article "I have no problems with at all, love them, but I'd suggest they don't move into my area because they will change it to much and the oldies will hate it" Might be true, might make sense, but it's racist and doesn't help anyone. What Jason did can a) incite homophobia b) hurt people who are professional sportspeople and gay.

I am very happy that so many great AFL figures have come out and showed us we have moved on from the 1950s.

Well said Damien.

[Matty10]

Well said Damien.

Ditto.

[BSA5]

The key issue in the article is that the message was, come out and it will be a circus, the AFL isn't ready and you could ruin the fabric of your Club. I don't think he meant to be homophobic, but what he did was probably worse. Instead you end up with gay/lesbian teenagers playing sport at a high level who are now additionally stresed about what sort of life they will lead if they continue down that path and of course if any AFL players are in the closet currently, well they just put a deadlock on it.

To be honest to say "he isn't homophobic', really misses the point here. Aker got want he wanted, publicity, and anyone who is actually or could be an elite sportsperson who happens to be homosexual and not out, got another reason to stay repressed, in the closet and probably deeply unhappy.

We all get there are a varying points of view in the community, but Aker's article is the height of stupidity. It's like writing an article "I have no problems with at all, love them, but I'd suggest they don't move into my area because they will change it to much and the oldies will hate it" Might be true, might make sense, but it's racist and doesn't help anyone. What Jason did can a) incite homophobia b) hurt people who are professional sportspeople and gay.

I am very happy that so many great AFL figures have come out and showed us we have moved on from the 1950s.

Oh, I totally agree it was stupid. He could have written an article to a similar effect but expressed with much more clarity and, well, tact. Or he could just have not written it at all. But a lot of people are saying things like "he's stuck in the 50s", "he's a homophobe", etc, and I think that's plain wrong. He's a tactless idiot, he's an opinionated wanker, but those other sorts of comments are wide of the mark.

Also, I don't think the key message was that it would ruin the fabric of the club, I think it was that the results of a player coming out would be too much for an individual to bear at this particular point in time. Aker is a buffoon, but I do genuinely believe he reckons gay players would be better served following his advice, and the points he made were quite right. The overall effect of the article has been negative, but I don't think Aker is a bad person because of it, nor do I think he's a homophobe.

To use your moving into a neighbourhood example, if I, a 20 year old white Australian male, went to live in New York, do you think I would be offended if a black guy told me I'd probably be better off not living in Harlem? If a black guy wrote an article saying that racial tensions in black communities against whites meant that if white people suddenly started moving in, they might be putting themselves in danger, would that be racist?

[Matty10]

I don't think the key message was that it would ruin the fabric of the club, I think it was that the results of a player coming out would be too much for an individual to bear at this particular point in time.

BSA5, I think one of the biggest problems with the article is that it would be easy to discern from what Aker said that the 'individual' concerned, as you mentioned above, is actually him. You might be right in that it was just so poorly written that it was not clear, and he is not homophobic etc, but the article does not really read that way. I thought the subsequent response by Roos and co., was great.

If a black guy wrote an article saying that racial tensions in black communities against whites meant that if white people suddenly started moving in, they might be putting themselves in danger, would that be racist?

Probably not, but if it was said by a resident of the area it could be construed as a threat.

[CureTheSane]

Christ some people are precious. Aker's article was poorly expressed and edited, and obviously (typical Aker) a grab at the headlines, but what he said actually made sense. Even if clubs on the whole are accepting of homosexuality, there will always be players at a club, like any workplace, that are to varying degrees uncomfortable with homosexuality. The difference is that in a workplace like an office, it's easy to avoid any situations that certain people might find uncomfortable or "compromising", and so any disruption is minimal. That's not the case at a footy club, where there is intense physical interaction, and it must be said, undertones of potential homoeroticism. People of any degree of homophobia would be forced to confront their discomfort, and intentionally or not, would act differently towards a gay teammate. Just as the law of averages says that there will be some gay guys at footy clubs, the law of averages also says there will be some homophobes, whatever the dominating culture, and in a footy club, neither have anywhere to hide.

Aker is a bit of a wanker, sure, but to say that article means he's homophobic is short-sighted and completely missing the point.

Yeah I agree.

The way I interpreted (what I saw) of his interview was not homophobic at all.
I saw it as a positive thing.
It sets more of a reasonable environment for a gay footballer to come out.

Acker, in raising teh topic has at least put it up for discussion, as is happening here.
I believe this in teh end creates a more tollerant community.

[BSA5]

BSA5, I think one of the biggest problems with the article is that it would be easy to discern from what Aker said that the 'individual' concerned, as you mentioned above, is actually him. You might be right in that it was just so poorly written that it was not clear, and he is not homophobic etc, but the article does not really read that way. I thought the subsequent response by Roos and co., was great.

The article only reads that way if you want to think that's how he thinks. If you read the article with the attitude that he's a neutral observer, then it doesn't come across as homophobic at all. Aker said something controversial, and now people are jumping all over him, trying to bring him down. By all means call him opinionated, a headline grabber, whatever, but that's reading something into it which isn't really there. It's no secret a homophobe might not like a gay bloke slapping him on the arse or showering with him. Aker saying as much doesn't make him a homophobe.

Probably not, but if it was said by a resident of the area it could be construed as a threat.

Yeah, it could be. But there's nothing to suggest that it should be.

[CureTheSane]

Gay men and lesbians should be able to come out whenever it feels right for them. Who is he to tell them otherwise. The problem isnt the gay person coming out, its the bigotry they may have to deal with thats the problem. But if they want to tackle that, as so many gays like myself have done, that's up to them.

Acker is implying that gay footballers will not be tolerated by the 'macho hetrosexual footballers'
He is stating what he percieved as being a factual comment.
If it is or not, only time will tell.

Issues like this demonstrate clearly how intolerant our society syill is....

[Damien]

Oh, I totally agree it was stupid. He could have written an article to a similar effect but expressed with much more clarity and, well, tact. Or he could just have not written it at all. But a lot of people are saying things like "he's stuck in the 50s", "he's a homophobe", etc, and I think that's plain wrong. He's a tactless idiot, he's an opinionated wanker, but those other sorts of comments are wide of the mark.

Also, I don't think the key message was that it would ruin the fabric of the club, I think it was that the results of a player coming out would be too much for an individual to bear at this particular point in time. Aker is a buffoon, but I do genuinely believe he reckons gay players would be better served following his advice, and the points he made were quite right. The overall effect of the article has been negative, but I don't think Aker is a bad person because of it, nor do I think he's a homophobe.

Sorry I still think you are missing the point, which is fine and you are entitled to an opinion on the matter, but if you are a gay sportsmen/women in the closet reading:

Imagine the publicity associated with a current player admitting he's gay. It would be international news and could break the fabric of a club.

Not sure it would make you feel too happy about yourself, who you are and what you do..

So you are gay, not really happy and wondering if it is time that you live your life honestly, and the next minute you read a triple premiership player's article that suggests someone outing themsleves could break the fabric of the club. Or you are gay and 16, great footy player and you figure that the world is changing. Not good reading.

Aker isn't gay, the only thing he has a right to have an opinion on is how HE would react to a player coming out. The first player to come out I am sure will be more than ready and it's up to the rest of us to deal with it.

To use your moving into a neighbourhood example, if I, a 20 year old white Australian male, went to live in New York, do you think I would be offended if a black guy told me I'd probably be better off not living in Harlem? If a black guy wrote an article saying that racial tensions in black communities against whites meant that if white people suddenly started moving in, they might be putting themselves in danger, would that be racist?

Slightly different suggesting whites moving into a violent African American neighbourhood would be in danger, I would suggest that is fairly well removed from my example, which was more about general fear people have of something new coming into a scenario that has never had to adjust or deal with it before. Just because footy clubs have always been a certain way historically, doesn't mean the world will fall in once a player has come out.

Nothing in Jason's article is constructive or helpful for anyone.

I wont bother commenting again on the issue, but I will say Jason would have won more friends with an honest article about where he sees football and this issue and what he thinks a Club and Player could do to manage it. Telling people not to come out for the sake of the game, club or even themselves, is none of his business.

[Bas]

Well a certain swimmer hasn't come out of the closet even long after retirement. What does that tell you about society in general. Can't just confine it to AFL. Kowalski did but really who cares. If it's helped him then that has been great but makes no difference to me as to how I see him.

So if a player comes out saying he's gay, what does every other player in the team go on "dropped soap alert in the shower". As I said previously, got the drugs issue off the front page. That issue is more important IMO.

[Matty10]

The article only reads that way if you want to think that's how he thinks. If you read the article with the attitude that he's a neutral observer, then it doesn't come across as homophobic at all. Aker said something controversial, and now people are jumping all over him, trying to bring him down. By all means call him opinionated, a headline grabber, whatever, but that's reading something into it which isn't really there. It's no secret a homophobe might not like a gay bloke slapping him on the arse or showering with him. Aker saying as much doesn't make him a homophobe.

But Aker isn't a neutral observer in this scenario as he is talking about his own experiences / feelings - which do not seem that clear (why for example does he say, in relation to a former gay team-mate, that what he "should have done was to sit down and talk with him in an attempt to understand his life" - after he said that he was uncomfortable showering with him - what does that even mean?).

I also don't think that people are reacting to these comments negatively because it is Aker and they are trying to bring him down, they are reacting negatively because of the content of an article written by a current AFL player.

[BSA5]

Sorry I still think you are missing the point, which is fine and you are entitled to an opinion on the matter, but if you are a gay sportsmen/women in the closet reading:

Not sure it would make you feel too happy about yourself, who you are and what you do..

So you are gay, not really happy and wondering if it is time that you live your life honestly, and the next minute you read a triple premiership player's article that suggests someone outing themsleves could break the fabric of the club. Or you are gay and 16, great footy player and you figure that the world is changing. Not good reading.

I don't disagree with that. Aker could definitely have chosen his words better. Doesn't make what he said wrong or homophobic though, but many people are still maintaining that he, or at least his column, is. I'm not saying you're one of them either, but they're definitely out there.

Aker isn't gay, the only thing he has a right to have an opinion on is how HE would react to a player coming out. The first player to come out I am sure will be more than ready and it's up to the rest of us to deal with it.

Bull@@@@. He interacts with footy players every day. He's entitled to his opinion that some of those players wouldn't be comfortable, that this could have negative ramifications for the club culture, and taht this is something that needs to be worked on.

Slightly different suggesting whites moving into a violent African American neighbourhood would be in danger, I would suggest that is fairly well removed from my example, which was more about general fear people have of something new coming into a scenario that has never had to adjust or deal with it before. Just because footy clubs have always been a certain way historically, doesn't mean the world will fall in once a player has come out.

But he's not suggesting the world will fall in, just that it will become rather tumultuous for a while, with the focus right on the player who has come out.

Nothing in Jason's article is constructive or helpful for anyone.

I wont bother commenting again on the issue, but I will say Jason would have won more friends with an honest article about where he sees football and this issue and what he thinks a Club and Player could do to manage it. Telling people not to come out for the sake of the game, club or even themselves, is none of his business.

Agree with all that. It's a pity it wasn't written by a more sensible, more anonymous writer. It could have been a great article. As it was, it was some good points lost amongst Aker trying to grab headlines and broadcast his opinion.

[Captain]

I certainly don't think Aker is homophobic.

He is just stating a fact, that football clubs (at all levels) are full of macho guys who could make life very awkward for a gay person coming out.