Swans the new Richmond

[aardvark]

If second in our B&F is "fringe", what do you have to do to earn a spot? And do you really think any of the reserves you mention would have contributed more over the season than Kirk, who has dropped to just 6th this season for AFL tackles?

And, personally, I think Moore does straighten up our forward line, they just didn't have much to do yesterday so he was largely surplus to requirements.

Read the post properly, I'm not talking about yesterday and i didn't say anything about dropping kirk. and IMO Shaw has been a disaster zone all year except maybe against Carlton.

[aardvark]

Aaaahh not sure what your on, but a certain team nearly went back to back premiership winners in 05-06 without ever bottoming out.

Cant argue with you there

[Go Swannies]

Read the post properly, I'm not talking about yesterday and i didn't say anything about dropping kirk. and IMO Shaw has been a disaster zone all year except maybe against Carlton.

Its the fringe players I have a problem with like Ted, Shaw,Mattner,Bevo,Moore ect.

I understand the argument for not dropping Kirk ect.

I think I read it properly. I simply disputed that Shaw can be regarded as a fringe player - any more than Goodes or Kennelly can be said to be "fringe"when they are playing like crap. And your implication is that Kirk has a role to play even if he doesn't deserve to be in the team on merit. I was counter-arguing that Kirk is in our best 22.

[aardvark]

I think I read it properly. I simply disputed that Shaw can be regarded as a fringe player - any more than Goodes or Kennelly can be said to be "fringe"when they are playing like crap. And your implication is that Kirk has a role to play even if he doesn't deserve to be in the team on merit. I was counter-arguing that Kirk is in our best 22.

The post is not about individual players its about the direction taken by club this year and into the future as opposed to the direction I believe they should have taken. I respect your feelings re Kirk and Shaw but they're not relevant to the overall discussion.

[Jewels]

I for one prefer the teams that I follow to do their best to win every week. I also accept that at certain times the teams that I follow are not necessarily the greatest and I have learned to accept the good with the bad. I also know that teams can have off days and when playing against a team that is 'on' can sometimes result in a flogging. That happened yesterday but I'm not going to sook about a spoilt baby about it.

I think we are a better team, and have more heart, to string too many performances like yesterday's together. I would much rather see a team have a go, and not do particularly well, rather than tank thanks very much...

Ahhh, at last something worth reading amidst the doom and gloom. Thank you Jono

The post is not about individual players its about the direction taken by club this year and into the future as opposed to the direction I believe they should have taken. I respect your feelings re Kirk and Shaw but they're not relevant to the overall discussion.

You named said players so therefore they are relevant to the discussion.

[Peace]

At least Richmond can beat teams above themselves on the ladder!

[ScottH]

anyone else think ponting should retire?

No, throw him on the ball.

[Mr Magoo]

At least Richmond can beat teams above themselves on the ladder!

yeah but name more than one team they have beaten below them on the ladder

As for playing the young guys - other than the ones they have played, many of the others have succummed to injury just as they have started to string together good games at reserve level so you cant expect them to play unknown quantities , first or second or even third week back from injury straight into seniors. This year MOD, Currie , Heath , Rohan and TDL have all sufferred injury , Reid is a first year KP player so you wouldnt expect him to get a run particularly as he is physically undeveloped and LJ is having his first full season after injury. I think Vez has also had injuries but also it has been reported he is not fit enough. You should only be throwing inexperienced players into the mix when they are fit , in form and the ONLY thing preventing them from being ready is a lack of experience at that level.

[swansrule100]

No, throw him on the ball.

well he does tend to chase the ball even if its a mile away from him

[DST]

There is no conclusive evidence that tanking (or playing the kids for the sake of it) to gather early draft picks is the only and best way to build a premiership list.

In fact most evidence points to a mixture of shrewd drafting, trading for etablished players on a needs basis and rookie promotions as the best way to finely tune a list that is required to be able to win a premiership.

We have a solid squad with some good middle aged players and a bunch of young up and comers that show something. In all likelyhood we could be only two gun midfielders away from another tilt at serious finals football if White and Johnstone become what they are capable of and Reid joins Grundy and LRT in defence.

We may even be lucky to land one of those gun midfielder under F/S next year in Tom Mitchell.

The difference between 8th and top 4 is finely balanced and then it comes down to how good you are on the day from the PF onwards.

DST

[SimonH]

The list is barely half the equation. It's how you put it on the field that counts. That has never been more apparent than in 2010 (although a pretty close second would be the largely insipid performances of Geelong in 2006, when the world-beating, seemingly invincible list of 2007-10 was basically all there). Contrast the best and worst of Richmond, Brisbane, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Adelaide, Hawthorn and Carlton this year-- each of them has really flown when on song, 6 of them recording wins/draws against one of the top-4 sides that will almost certainly take home the flag. And at their worst, each of them has put in a pretty decent nomination for worst team in the competition.

They've each had a few injuries (who doesn't?), but none of these sides' lists has changed at all this year.

[The Big Cat]

I think people miss the strength of our recruiting last year. Not only did we have a terrific draft but (with the exception of Bradshaw who fell out of the sky) all our trading was aimed at bolstering that AGE GROUP which we have lost from our list due to lack of ability or injury of draftees eg. Laidlaw, Brabazon, DOK, (probably Thornton), Smokey Davis, Schmidt, etc. Thus the influx of early to mid 20s aged recruits.

[The Goodes]

Actually, I think we ARE Tanking at the mid-table level. The Richmond game was winnable (and was won), but our boys stoped playing, and allowed bottom-feeders to get the points. The players COULD have done more against Melbourne, but they elected to follow the same suit as the Richmond game (only with a worse result). I think there is a view to allow us a better chance when it comes to recruitment. Jetta was a 1st year Senior debut pipe-dream. Kirk is done. Playfair is gone. This year is over. The draft will be very interesting. Big player turnover to follow. Hanners, Rohan, Jack, Smith et al = bright future.

[Bleed Red Blood]

I think people miss the strength of our recruiting last year. Not only did we have a terrific draft but (with the exception of Bradshaw who fell out of the sky) all our trading was aimed at bolstering that AGE GROUP which we have lost from our list due to lack of ability or injury of draftees eg. Laidlaw, Brabazon, DOK, (probably Thornton), Smokey Davis, Schmidt, etc. Thus the influx of early to mid 20s aged recruits.

Mmmm. Our drafting/trading under Roos 2003 till 07 really missed the mark imo. We had very little success with the national draft, gave away (relatively) good picks for Richards, Chambers, Everitt and Playfair who are all a bust. the key position players we did draft in that time we're all "project players" drafted late and didn't work out. If Grundy hadn't come on the way he has (and plenty thought he wouldn't) can you imagine how @@@@@@ we'd be this year with Boltons injury. And Hall and O'Loughlin we're always going to go, there was no succession plan for them at all (Past White, whom only last year was playing as a Ruck and has a long way to go still).

I also think Roos has failed in his trading for Mattner and Shaw. whilst we got them relatively cheap and they've been basically a success in terms of they're contributing players, the game doesn't revolve around 'Rebounding defenders' and it has unbalanced the team. We have plenty of on-ballers waiting in the wings, Meredith, Vez, MOD, Thornton, Smith, Heath hell even Jack could handle a back flank and they have many more years ahead of them. You could even throw McGlynn back there and TDL could take his spot up forward.

[ernie koala]

I agree, our problems stem from our recruiting, or lack there of, in particular 06, 07and 08. We recruited the minimum numbers requiired from the draft and topped up with some ordinary players. And when we did decide to move on some players it was Schnieds and Dempster(both in their early 20s) for pick 26.
IMO we missed the boat by drafting so few between 06-08. The last thng we want to do now is bottom out while there is little on offer given all the best 17 year olds, as well as draft picks, are gone). It adds up to a lack of forward thinking/planning that was required 3-4 years ago.