Slow down, you move to fast

[giant]

The match on Sunday reminded me so much of many Pies debacles that it can't have been a coincidence. They played a very similar game plan to the Pies and, just like the ferals, they made us look painfully slow (didn't we have this same discussion after the last Homebush game? If we didn't, we should have). A lot of this had to do with not having the footy and turning it over when we did, as Roos has noted. But it also had to do with our four main inside mids - Kirk, B1, McV, & Kennedy - having absolute shockers (btw I've already confessed to only watching the first 30 mins of Sunday's game so some of this is hearsay!).

[Bloody Hell]

Spot on.

Many years ago I had a footy coach who was explaining what speed on the footy field actually meant. To demonstrate it he had two players stand 20 metres apart from each other. He then made 1 player run to the other player and back again, and at the same time he'd kick the footy to the player standing 20 metres away, and have that player kick it back to him. No surprise what made it back first.

The point he was trying to make to us young kids was if you have the skills you can always look quick.

There's two types of quick. Quick with the footy and quick without.

Defensively we look slow, which is about leg speed and pressure. At the top defensive pressure is more important IMO.

[RogueSwan]

...
Crouch's ability to keep up with and run-off any opponent was a major asset. Williams ability to do likewise was the same.Mobile and talented rucks were an advantage, but quick thinking and hard working runners.....

I think this is a big problem, hard working runners.
We used to have a few big guns, Hall, ROK, Goodes, Kirk, Kennelly who weren't necessarily lightning fast but the could run all day. They didn't seem to slow down as the game wore on.

[Primmy]

Yeah he is one of ones played 2 games looked good got dropped Ves played one game looked real good got dropped Tdl played 2 games looked ok got dropped Heath played solid 2 games.....dropped

Not wanting to be a spoil sport, pain in the bum, but when you watch the ressies you can see the patterns emerge. MOD can be a very good player, or not. Ves can play a good game, or not, Heath has played some crackers, and not, TDL is being eased into a much much faster game than he is used to.

I hope you can see the issues I can see with all of this. The problem with Ves and MOD is they are hot and cold - all the time. They don't have consistency. they have flashes, but they can't afford to play blokes who flash a bit, and then fade off. I am hoping Ves comes good, because a lot of his problems are with his motor, and his not terribly well developed "team" awareness. MOD, I wish I wish, but I don't know.....

Heath is just a kid, and had a reco last year anyway while still in school (geddit? this is his first year) but he is steadily improving.
TDL will do just fine, but not this year, not yet, but he is improving.

The major issue here is with the level of improvement and application - it doesn't always fit. Like young Willoughby (a couple of years back). Very excited about him - for the first few months. then noticed it was all the same. No steady improvement, just motored along at the same rate - don't want to be unfair, but after a bit you just knew it was not going to happen.

Occasionally the coaching staff get it wrong. Mostly they don't. Sometimes great things come from players when they have been delisted, and they realise that they have blown it unless a club picks them up and they can take on a more improved attitude and aptitude. It happens.

[Bas]

If we get rid of all these players, who do we get to replace them? Expect to see fairly mich the same team except for about 3 additions.

[Ratna]

Obviously the team is in a transition phase but I think there is a combination of lack of speed, lack of confidence skill and outdated game plan (or not adapted to changing plan when under pressure more accurately). The year is over, IMO we will play finals but it will only mean a game of finals experience for the up and comers.

Would a rotation policy of the fringe players be useful and possibly offer insight. To say to the players on the fringe you will all get X number of games for the rest of the season, here is a chance put your best foot forward. Keep a majority core of experienced players to hopefully limit floggings, but allocate a few places for the fringe players to be rotated through each week. There is heaps to dislike about a policy like this as it would give no team stability, if a player performed you would be obliged to move him on to stick with the policy and it is not picking the best team each week. On the other hand, it might offer insight for the future, which may be as valuable as what we would lose by implementing such a ridiculous policy. I

If we go on to recruit pace please let it be accompanied by skill, pace without skill is pointless, at least skill without pace can look OK on a small ground like the SCG

[rojo]

I was there on Sunday, my one and only live game for the year, and have been too stunned to give an opinion, and it would only be to repeat what has already been said by others. I just could not believe how ineffective and poor, players I didn't expect like McVeigh and Kennelly were. They were made to look slow as a team, but on reflection, I don't think it was just foot speed that was the issue, they were mainly trailing behind after the ball was turned over from contested footy situations. How many times were Swans players caught with the ball, or even had the ball wrenched out of their hands, unable to clear it to advantage? The really disappointing aspect of the whole afternoon was the inability of anyone to make a stand. With Kirk retiring who else apart from Adam Goodes is there to stand up when the going gets tough! It seems like no-one.

The highlights (yes, highlighs) for me were Jetta and Goodsey's runs along the boundary line heading for the goals - even though they didn't make it! I was wondering why Jetta stopped and did his little side step which ended with him getting caught, twice, until watching Adam powering along at full pace with someone right on his tail and then kicking it to was it 2 Melbourne players waiting in the goal square. There was no Swans' player in sight, and good as he is Adam could not do a Buddy Franklin. Ben McGlynn finally arrived but too late. I assume Jetta stopped because there was no-one ahead of him and for some reason he is always looking for someone to pass it to - if only he would just keep running!! The other highlight was Jesse taking a few contested marks and kicking goals. There has been some criticism of his game, but there weren't too many others tall or small doing that.

[Scottee]

Obviously the team is in a transition phase but I think there is a combination of lack of speed, lack of confidence skill and outdated game plan (or not adapted to changing plan when under pressure more accurately). The year is over, IMO we will play finals but it will only mean a game of finals experience for the up and comers.

Would a rotation policy of the fringe players be useful and possibly offer insight. To say to the players on the fringe you will all get X number of games for the rest of the season, here is a chance put your best foot forward. Keep a majority core of experienced players to hopefully limit floggings, but allocate a few places for the fringe players to be rotated through each week. There is heaps to dislike about a policy like this as it would give no team stability, if a player performed you would be obliged to move him on to stick with the policy and it is not picking the best team each week. On the other hand, it might offer insight for the future, which may be as valuable as what we would lose by implementing such a ridiculous policy. I

If we go on to recruit pace please let it be accompanied by skill, pace without skill is pointless, at least skill without pace can look OK on a small ground like the SCG

I agree with your thinking . Totally agree that pace(whether its speed, tank or both) is useless without all the other attributes, but it is one attribute you can't do without in today's game. Probably the thing that I find most frustrating is that our fastest player has not yet combined his pace with skill in either handball or kicking (except on brief occasions earlier on). However, for whatever reason we were slow in every respect last week.

I think the rot started when we "economised" by joining the Canberra comp. Player development has been stymied since then. The only players that seem to have kicked on are those that were persevered with even though they were not up to par initially. Like LRT previously, Grundy, Jack , Smith, Moore, White, Bird all had consistent runs in the ones before thay finally "clicked". Contrast with players at other clubs who often come in and fire from day 1 after decent competion in the VFL/WAFL etc.This has been the biggest false economy at the club even taking into account bad investments.Better competitions sort the men from the boys much quicker and obviously if you can't excel in the lesser comp you aren't going to maker it in the big league.You also don't have to make such a huge transition to the pace of the game when you finally do get promoted.

I think out only alternative is to as you suggest rotate as many through the seniors on a strategic basis to sort out who is who.

[Mr Magoo]

Not wanting to be a spoil sport, pain in the bum, but when you watch the ressies you can see the patterns emerge. MOD can be a very good player, or not. Ves can play a good game, or not, Heath has played some crackers, and not, TDL is being eased into a much much faster game than he is used to.

I hope you can see the issues I can see with all of this. The problems with Ves and MOD is they are hot and cold - all the time. They don't have consistency. they have flashes, but they can't afford to play blokes who flash a bit, and then fade off. I am hoping Ves comes good, because a lot of his problems are with his motor, and his not terribly well developed "team" awareness. MOD, I wish I wish, but I don't know.....

Heath is just a kid, and had a reco last year anyway while still in school (geddit? this is his first year) but he is steadily improving.
TDL will do just fine, but not this year, not yet, but he is improving.

The major issue here is with the level of improvement and application - it doesn't always fit. Like young Willoughby (a couple of years back). Very excited about him - for the first few months. then noticed it was all the same. No steady improvement, just motored along at the same rate - don't want to be unfair, but after a bit you just knew it was not going to happen.

Occasionally the coaching staff get it wrong. Mostly they don't. Sometimes great things come from players when they have been delisted, and they realise that they have blown it unless a club picks them up and they can take on a more improved attitude and aptitude. It happens.

My initial comment on MOD was more so on his efforts when he has been promoted. While I dont watch ressies I keep a close eye on fellow ROWers comments and thre has been discussion on his inconsistency , yet when he has been promoted he has not been inconsistent (hardly had a chance to be I guess). It would be disheartening I believe for someone like MOD to string together good games in ressies, get promoted, be equally impressive in firsts and then to find that despite all that your back in ressies the next week and a more senior player or another peer who hasnt shown a hell of a lot on the trip to Canberra is in the firsts at your expense.

[aardvark]

Here's an idea. Play the ressies in the VFL it cant cost that much more than Canberra. We could even call them South Melbourne......or use an affiliate club like Port Melbourne.

[aardvark]

With the AFL bringing in a cap on interchanges this will have the effect of making the slightly slower players more influential again so we may not be too far off the mark speed wise next year.

[Primmy]

My initial comment on MOD was more so on his efforts when he has been promoted. While I dont watch ressies I keep a close eye on fellow ROWers comments and thre has been discussion on his inconsistency , yet when he has been promoted he has not been inconsistent (hardly had a chance to be I guess). It would be disheartening I believe for someone like MOD to string together good games in ressies, get promoted, be equally impressive in firsts and then to find that despite all that your back in ressies the next week and a more senior player or another peer who hasnt shown a hell of a lot on the trip to Canberra is in the firsts at your expense.

I agree it would be disheartening, but MOD was always promoted after we had a drop out in 1s, he hasn't forced his way in with outstanding and consistent effective work. I couldn't say that any player in his position at present (well a couple of weeks ago) was not primary for that prized place in the seniors team.

I think sometimes the boys forget that when they get dropped back that they have to work even harder to prove a point, and unfortunately MOD often didn't. I mean, look at Jesse White. When he gets dropped he usually has a blinder in ressies, and forces his way back onto the list. Same with Meredith. Same with Smiffy. Not same with Ves or Mod.

I like them both, I want them to be Swans, but......

Well, Frosty could barely get a gig under Rocket, and look where he is now; coach of ressies. Its not as though the coaches don't know how it feels to get dropped, over again. Now look at him. Senior coach in the making, trust me. It gives me great satisfaction, I always believed he was hardly done by.

[Jewels]

I think the rot started when we "economised" by joining the Canberra comp. Player development has been stymied since then. The only players that seem to have kicked on are those that were persevered with even though they were not up to par initially. Like LRT previously, Grundy, Jack , Smith, Moore, White, Bird all had consistent runs in the ones before thay finally "clicked". Contrast with players at other clubs who often come in and fire from day 1 after decent competition in the VFL/WAFL etc.This has been the biggest false economy at the club even taking into account bad investments.Better competitions sort the men from the boys much quicker and obviously if you can't excel in the lesser comp you aren't going to maker it in the big league.You also don't have to make such a huge transition to the pace of the game when you finally do get promoted.

I don't agree with your view on the Canberra comp. As far as I know, it wasn't for economical reasons that we joined that league in the first place, it was more to do with the ability to keep our boys playing together, coached by a Swans coach, playing in positions Swans coaches wanted them playing in, a thing we were unable to do whilst we were aligned to Port Melbourne.
As far as your view on players being able to step up better when they come from the VFL, SAFL or WAFL I can't say I really agree with that either and I think it depends more on the player. Case in point being Hannebery V Jetta. Dan has never played VFL and had no trouble stepping up to the intensity of AFL after only a few games in the reserves, whilst Jetta, who was apparently a stand out last year in the WAFL, has struggled in the AFL.

[sWAns63]

I don't agree with your view on the Canberra comp. As far as I know, it wasn't for economical reasons that we joined that league in the first place, it was more to do with the ability to keep our boys playing together, coached by a Swans coach, playing in positions Swans coaches wanted them playing in, a thing we were unable to do whilst we were aligned to Port Melbourne.
As far as your view on players being able to step up better when they come from the VFL, SAFL or WAFL I can't say I really agree with that either and I think it depends more on the player. Case in point being Hannebery V Jetta. Dan has never played VFL and had no trouble stepping up to the intensity of AFL after only a few games in the reserves, whilst Jetta, who was apparently a stand out last year in the WAFL, has struggled in the AFL.

I think Swans as a while have struggled to play team football so citing one case Hannebery V Jetta is a bit unfair an inside type vs a outside type not a fair comparison if Jetta's not getting clean ball.

[Jewels]

I think Swans as a while have struggled to play team football so citing one case Hannebery V Jetta is a bit unfair an inside type vs a outside type not a fair comparison if Jetta's not getting clean ball.

Sorry, I didn't mean it in that sense. My point was more about development being an individual thing rather than a direct link with where they played their early footy.