White's future

[BSA5]

Where do people see White's future? Personally, I think there is little doubt he'll make it as an AFL player. A bloke of his size and athleticism will find a niche. He's already doing OK as a FF, and will only get better with experience. But is this the position he is best suited to?

Personally, I think White's hands are atrocious, and this is a big, big deal for a key forward. Barry Hall has mediocre hands, probably the worst of any dominant key forward, but they are good enough for him to survive, especially given he is possibly the best exponent of the lead in the game right now. White's hands are worse, and have shown no signs of improvement, while his leading is merely acceptable (albeit under some trying circumstances given our ball use this year). Really, the only things he has going for him are speed, size, strength and leap, and I just don't think that's enough for him to be a long-term FF/CHF for us.

As such, I reckon he should be trialled as a key defender. His main attributes, strength, size, speed and leap, are just as important for a key defender. Our key defensive stocks are somewhat limited, as LRT being out has shown. There are rumours B2's career might be over. Even if they are false, there's no doubt his body is not in a great state, and we may not be able to rely on him as we have done in the past. Campbell Heath is being groomed as his replacement, but I'd like to see Heath stick to small-medium forwards rather than take up a KPD post.

I have every faith in LRT and Grundy, but I really think a third KPD is needed (especially since Grundy is perhaps a bit weak on the lead, but oh so damaging on the rebound), and Reid is in line for that spot at the moment. And that is exactly why I'd like to see White trialled there instead. From what I've seen of Reid (limited though it is: the intraclub match, a single ressies match in which he played ruck and YouTube footage), he is a natural forward. He is tall, fast, has a giant leap on him, freakishly wide shoulders, and hands like dustbins covered in super-glue. Absolutely fantastic set of hands. Jack Riewoldt like.

I would love White to be turned into a KPD. He has the size, strength and athleticism to keep up with any key forward in the competition, he's very good at ground level for a bloke his size, especially using his body, shepherding, that sort of thing, and he rarely seems to get flustered even when things aren't going his way. And I would love White's move there to open the door for Reid and/or Johnston to come into the forward line and make it theirs.

Thoughts?

[Hartijon]

Where do people see White's future? Personally, I think there is little doubt he'll make it as an AFL player. A bloke of his size and athleticism will find a niche. He's already doing OK as a FF, and will only get better with experience. But is this the position he is best suited to?

Personally, I think White's hands are atrocious, and this is a big, big deal for a key forward. Barry Hall has mediocre hands, probably the worst of any dominant key forward, but they are good enough for him to survive, especially given he is possibly the best exponent of the lead in the game right now. White's hands are worse, and have shown no signs of improvement, while his leading is merely acceptable (albeit under some trying circumstances given our ball use this year). Really, the only things he has going for him are speed, size, strength and leap, and I just don't think that's enough for him to be a long-term FF/CHF for us.

As such, I reckon he should be trialled as a key defender. His main attributes, strength, size, speed and leap, are just as important for a key defender. Our key defensive stocks are somewhat limited, as LRT being out has shown. There are rumours B2's career might be over. Even if they are false, there's no doubt his body is not in a great state, and we may not be able to rely on him as we have done in the past. Campbell Heath is being groomed as his replacement, but I'd like to see Heath stick to small-medium forwards rather than take up a KPD post.

I have every faith in LRT and Grundy, but I really think a third KPD is needed (especially since Grundy is perhaps a bit weak on the lead, but oh so damaging on the rebound), and Reid is in line for that spot at the moment. And that is exactly why I'd like to see White trialled there instead. From what I've seen of Reid (limited though it is: the intraclub match, a single ressies match in which he played ruck and YouTube footage), he is a natural forward. He is tall, fast, has a giant leap on him, freakishly wide shoulders, and hands like dustbins covered in super-glue. Absolutely fantastic set of hands. Jack Riewoldt like.

I would love White to be turned into a KPD. He has the size, strength and athleticism to keep up with any key forward in the competition, he's very good at ground level for a bloke his size, especially using his body, shepherding, that sort of thing, and he rarely seems to get flustered even when things aren't going his way. And I would love White's move there to open the door for Reid and/or Johnston to come into the forward line and make it theirs.

Thoughts?

A KPP in the backlines with bad hands? If you miss a mark in the forwards its a turnover,if you miss a mark in the backlines ,its a goal against you. KPP in the backlines that do well are all superb marks,Scarlett,Lake,etc. Would you like to stand alongside Jesse and spend all game trying to cover the spilled ball.?While a lot of what you say is true the key fact that he can't hang on to his grabs means he cannot be anywhere near the goals of the opposition. I also note he is not that reliable when the ball is below his knees and many balls get passed him.Thats suicide in the back lines
No! Bad Idea! Forward or nothing IMO.

[BSA5]

A KPP in the backlines with bad hands? If you miss a mark in the forwards its a turnover,if you miss a mark in the backlines ,its a goal against you. KPP in the backlines that do well are all superb marks,Scarlett,Lake,etc. Would you like to stand alongside Jesse and spend all game trying to cover the spilled ball.?While a lot of what you say is true the key fact that he can't hang on to his grabs means he cannot be anywhere near the goals of the opposition. I also note he is not that reliable when the ball is below his knees and many balls get passed him.Thats suicide in the back lines
No! Bad Idea! Forward or nothing IMO.

Absolutely not. Bad hands are only a bad thing in the backline if the defender is trying to take marks. Why do you think Scarlett and Lake rarely play on the best forward nowadays and constantly peel off? Because they want to use their hands. White wouldn't play that role. He'd be a Presti. A Rutten. A Glass. A dour defender who if the ball is coming in and he's all alone, can take a mark (his hands are fine in the open, just not under pressure), but otherwise exist just to spoil.

The whole point of putting White into the backline would be to take away his NEED to mark. He'd just spoil away. He's great at negating physical contests, not great at outright winning them, and as a defender, that's all you really need. That would free up Grundy, who DOES have fantastic hands, to play that Lake/Scarlett/Fletcher role.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Watch White when he bothers to lead hard and attack the ball - and I mean, really burst onto it. His hands are very sure when he's committed and he's more than capable of taking a strong grab.

The problem, I think, comes from the fact he's not a natural footballer, doesn't read the play well and regularly finds himself in the wrong spot, uncertain and grasping. That's when the butter fingers come in.

This is behind the criticism of Roos last week - he either learns to take the game on or he has a problem.

Playing down back would reveal either an upside and a downside - the game comes to him so he may find it easier to read and can then use his pace and size to kill contests, or, quite simply he'll never get it. It'll be one or the other.

[Mr Magoo]

Not as silly as it sounds but I wouldnt write white off yet. He is only in really his first full year in the forward line and second year of playing in firsts but LEo Barry was a constant mark dropper before movd to the backline

[jono2707]

Putting him down back probably wouldn't hurt for a bit of experience and would probably help make him more accountable. I seem to remember a guy by the name of Leo Barry who did ok on the switch from a forward to a back when it became apparent that his effectiveness up forward was limited. Pretty much the exact same thing is going on with Grundy as well - he was drafted as a forward. Setanta O'hAilpin played back for Carlton for a while to get the hang of the game - I'm not saying its worked in his case but it is a line of thinking that is reasonable common. I've seen plenty of crazier suggestions on this site.....

[aardvark]

Trade bait

[bondy]

I think it's a good idea. I would hope that he is aggressive enough - I think he's aggressive in bursts, and would need to keep up the fire in each contest to be consistent. But why not.

[Triple B]

As such, I reckon he should be trialled as a key defender.....

From what I've seen of Reid (limited though it is: the intraclub match, a single ressies match in which he played ruck and YouTube footage), he is a natural forward. He is tall, fast, has a giant leap on him, freakishly wide shoulders, and hands like dustbins covered in super-glue. Absolutely fantastic set of hands. Jack Riewoldt like....

Jesse played a lot of ressies in the backline in his first few years, so it won't be totally unfamiliar for him.

Personally I'd persevere with him at FF because the upside is huge if things click. I'm not convinced he is that poor a grab, I just think if he got better, cleaner delivery from the ball coming in it wouldn't be such an issue. If things weren't any better this time next year, I'd be happier to see if he can make his mark down back rather then cut him loose. I'm sure plenty of the RWO inmates will be calling for his head if he hasn't improved noticebly as a forward.

As for Reid, he played ALL his junior footy as a forward. He was thrown into the backline in a rep game just a year or two back, starred and when he went back to the Bushrangers, they kept him there.

[Ratna]

Worth a try in the backline, but to win contests you need to kick goals. I think he needs more time. If Bradshaw wasn't injured I believe he would have spent more time in the ressies which probably still wouldn't hurt. If not he would have been playing on the next defender down at least and had a chance to build confidence. I think the point about delivery to the forward line is relevant, but only in that if he doesn't get good delivery early he seems to fade out of the game. I believe his hands aren't that bad he needs confidence, belief in his own ability and structure in the forward line. I think he has a future but I am not sure in what position. I hope Horse has a plan for him and the ability to implement it because it would be a shame to see this amount of potential come to little. Having read the post and said this there are plenty of big KPP who are plodders for a period who take 3-4 years to come of age, I have seen Jesse fly for pack marks, be dominant on the lead and crash packs, all inconsistently, do these things for an extended period and he could be a player to change the course of a game.

[Flossie]

Worth a try in the backline, but to win contests you need to kick goals. I think he needs more time. If Bradshaw wasn't injured I believe he would have spent more time in the ressies which probably still wouldn't hurt. If not he would have been playing on the next defender down at least and had a chance to build confidence. I think the point about delivery to the forward line is relevant, but only in that if he doesn't get good delivery early he seems to fade out of the game. I believe his hands aren't that bad he needs confidence, belief in his own ability and structure in the forward line. I think he has a future but I am not sure in what position. I hope Horse has a plan for him and the ability to implement it because it would be a shame to see this amount of potential come to little. Having read the post and said this there are plenty of big KPP who are plodders for a period who take 3-4 years to come of age, I have seen Jesse fly for pack marks, be dominant on the lead and crash packs, all inconsistently, do these things for an extended period and he could be a player to change the course of a game.

He looks like a big strong boy, but seems very soft. He doesnt fight for the ball and just looks like a bit jessie to me. Maybe it is lack of confidence and maybe as he gets more experience he will improve, but at the moment he frustrates me to the max!!!

[BSA5]

The big thing for me, though, is that the worries about his hands have been around since his first year, from ressies reports. It's not so much that it's a matter of him getting used to it, or he's down on confidence, or the delivery is terrible, though I'm sure they all play their own little parts. It's that it has been a problem his entire career, one that may be intrinsic. One of the earliest things I remember reading about White, on this site as it happens, was along the lines of "White is a huge unit, very exciting, but his hands are very hard and he drops some simple marks", and that doesn't seem to have improved. How many times can anybody remember White sprinting out on a lead and taking the mark with the hands out in front, strong, secure, even with an attempted spoil from his opponent? I can maaaaaybe think of once or twice. Other than that, his marks come from chest marks when he has a metre or two on his opponent. Unfortunately, he's not dominant enough in that one aspect to make up for his lack of contested marking ability, at least not enough to elevate him beyond a bit-part player.

[Primmy]

He looks like a big strong boy, but seems very soft. He doesnt fight for the ball and just looks like a bit jessie to me. Maybe it is lack of confidence and maybe as he gets more experience he will improve, but at the moment he frustrates me to the max!!!

I think he frustrates himself too. I just get the feeling he doesn't see himself as an AFL player.....he is a unit, he has ability, he has always look five years older than he is, and he appears to have unfounded fears about his role in the senior team. Any time he is dropped he has a blinder in ressies......he can play. He can take B good marks. He can kick goals. But there are times when he looks like he is stressed out and the groans from the crowd when he drops a mark doesn't help. Mind you, its not likely to stop happening either, the groans that is. I don't know the answer. Sports phsychology? He is such a nice bloke, he is such a part of this club, I wonder when he will understand that he is wanted (by most of us anyway, at least he tries!).

[UglyDuckling]

We need to give jesse a bit more time until we write him off as a forward. It really is only his second year in the seniors and he will continue to improve.

I think that if he has a big pre season and increases his aerobic capacity he will markedly improve. With more endurance and a higher intensity in his game he will be able to lead over and over and present harder at the ball. If he improves in this area to a point where he is getting a bit more space on his opponent he will hang onto more marks and be in a better position to kick to, giving him more better quality opportunities to hang onto marks.

i would also like to see more aggression from him, attacking the ball and packs harder more often.

Fingers crossed he gets these things right and turns into a gun CHF-FF

[DST]

His hands are fine.

His main problem at this stage is his perpensity to stand and watch the play and not use one of his key assets which is his pace and size.

When he keeps moving around (both up and down and lateral) like he did against Carlton, his immediate defender finds it hard to a) get in front of him and b) get around him to spoil. Plus he does not need to cope with a third up defender.

His best position is CHF or in the hole out from FF, but not at FF. Just needs a little more time to make sure he runs to the right spots at the right time but that will come.

DST