Collingwood players in sexual assault complaint.

**Trickster** · 5 October 2010, 03:50 PM

'Spida' turns on women over Collingwood sex allegations

**DeadlyAkkuret** · 5 October 2010, 07:18 PM

God Spida is a @@@@ing idiot.

**swansrock4eva** · 6 October 2010, 05:04 PM

He may not have been tactful in what he said, but there is a definite element of truth to his words. As much as the guys have to be sensible, the girlies should be as well. And I say this as a woman myself. We get all the power in these situations, and it's not right - the second a complaint is made, it's up to the male to prove his innocence, and often comes down to "he said, she said."

And just ask Brett Stewart (and to a lesser degree, Brendan Fevola who has just been cleared) what false accusations relating to sexual misconduct can do to your life...

***goswannie14*** · 6 October 2010, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by swansrock4eva

He may not have been tactful in what he said, but there is a definite element of truth to his words. As much as the guys have to be sensible, the girlies should be as well. And I say this as a woman myself. We get all the power in these situations, and it's not right - the second a complaint is made, it's up to the male to prove his innocence, and often comes down to "he said, she said."

And just ask Brett Stewart (and to a lesser degree, Brendan Fevola who has just been cleared) what false accusations relating to sexual misconduct can do to your life...

Both of those points were ones that Spida was very big on in his interview with Sunrise this morning.

**swansrock4eva** · 6 October 2010, 07:13 PM

I didn't hear those interviews, but I've seen enough footy-player-chasing skanks out and about on a Saturday night in Melbourne to know that they know what they are looking for, and it's usually more than a cup of Milo. I remember hearing some of the stories when I worked at VFL level with some ex-AFL players. Women would recognise them out and about, then abuse the guys' girlfriends when the guys would decline the offers put to them on grounds of being in a relationship. I even saw one of the lovely girlfriends get slapped at the after-party for a club event, simply because she stepped in and asked a random to leave her and her man alone (said random was drunk and the rudest, pushiest cow I've ever seen!). Some of the guys even stopped going out to popular venues because of it, and that's just not fair! Yes, footballers may be popular and in some ways "public property" but there are some horrid women out there who are out for personal or sexual gratification, and the old "I bagged a footballer" glory, and I'm sick of hearing it's the guys' fault. Not saying they're all angels, and they definitely still need to respect "No" etc, but jeez it's a 2 way street!

***goswannie14*** · 6 October 2010, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by swansrock4eva

I didn't hear those interviews, but I've seen enough footy-player-chasing skanks out and about on a Saturday night in Melbourne to know that they know what they are looking for, and it's usually more than a cup of Milo. I remember hearing some of the stories when I worked at VFL level with some ex-AFL players. Women would recognise them out and about, then abuse the guys' girlfriends when the guys would decline the offers put to them on grounds of being in a relationship. I even saw one of the lovely girlfriends get slapped at the after-party for a club event, simply because she stepped in and asked a random to leave her and her man alone (said random was drunk and the rudest, pushiest cow I've ever seen!). Some of the guys even stopped going out to popular venues because of it, and that's just not fair! Yes, footballers may be popular and in some ways "public property" but there are some horrid women out there who are out for personal or sexual gratification, and the old "I bagged a footballer" glory, and I'm sick of hearing it's the guys' fault. Not saying they're all angels, and they definitely still need to respect "No" etc, but jeez it's a 2 way street!

Most sensible thing I have read on this since the story broke.

**Lucky Knickers** · 6 October 2010, 07:44 PM

Two adults consenting is one thing whether those adults are a skank or a footballer taking what's on offer.
Should either adult not consent to anything it becomes a matter for the police if one party pursues their own agenda and should be treated accordingly.
We've all seen behaviour less than attractive from both men and women out at night. It isn't an invitation or an excuse to cross someone's personal boundaries.
I think Spida needs to consider his words more carefully and frankly deserves to squirm a bit in public over this. Whilst I'm surprised he even chose to tweet on the subject he's not known for his judgement in matters of antisocial behaviour.

**dimelb** · 6 October 2010, 08:57 PM

Comment worth reading from a seasoned crime reporter:
Collingwood Footballers Investigated For Rape

**ScottH** · 7 October 2010, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Lucky Knickers

Two adults consenting is one thing whether those adults are a skank or a footballer taking what's on offer.
Should either adult not consent to anything it becomes a matter for the police if one party pursues their own agenda and should be treated accordingly.
We've all seen behaviour less than attractive from both men and women out at night. It isn't an invitation or an excuse to cross someone's personal boundaries.
I think Spida needs to consider his words more carefully and frankly deserves to squirm a bit in public over this. Whilst I'm surprised he even chose to tweet on the subject he's not known for his judgement in matters of antisocial behaviour.

I think he makes a valid point, for some instances.
However,in this particular situation, without knowing the facts yet, it is hard to make a judgement.
Maybe the girl was right, and she was put in an awkward situation by her supposed boyfriend.
Maybe Spida is right. I don't know.

The interesting thing is, and my Mrs harps on about it a lot, no AFL/NRL/ARU/A-L/etc player has ever been found guilty of any injustice towards these women. Is it just that there was not enough evidence, were the players innocent, are the leagues good at covering up the situations.

There has been far too many instance across all codes for none of them to be guilty.
Sure, SR4E also makes a valid point, we've probably all seen the doco on it from a few years back, but some girls will throw themselves at celebrities, it's like they have a ladder to climb, and they see this as a way up, or something. But it's still up to the boys to say NO.
And as a young 20YO having girls throw themselves at you, literally, it's a very hard thing to deal with.

I'd like to think they are innocent until proven guilty, but it just seems to happen far too often for me to think this way.

**swansrob** · 7 October 2010, 08:41 AM

For the record, Dane Beams and John McCarthy have been named as the two players under investigation.

**ScottH** · 7 October 2010, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by swansrob

For the record, Dane Beams and John McCarthy have been named as the two players under investigation.

Confirmed.

**Frog** · 7 October 2010, 09:16 AM

Radio host Neil Mitchell has released the names of the Collingwood players he claims have been interviewed by police as part of their investigation following an incident in which a woman has alleged she was sexually assaulted.

Lets read it for what it is worth at this stage.

**laughingnome** · 7 October 2010, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by ScottH

The interesting thing is, and my Mrs harps on about it a lot, no AFL/NRL/ARU/A-L/etc player has ever been found guilty of any injustice towards these women. Is it just that there was not enough evidence, were the players innocent, are the leagues good at covering up the situations.

There has been far too many instance across all codes for none of them to be guilty.

The unfortunate thing with sexual assault is that so often it is hard to prove anything beyond circumstancial evidence. Unless there is a witness or someone pleads guilty, it often comes down to word v word, and that's hard to convict anyone on - see Paul Keating last month. Vaginal bruising, footage of them meeting in the club showing one person being aggressively interested, party(ies) being intoxicated, these are all things that can be tested but none conclusively points to a crime being committed. Then you've got the problem of the claimant having to testify in court. Sexual assault is a devestating, emotionally crippling crime and having to face the alleged attacker can bring the hardiest claimant undone. I have no doubt that there are more sexual assaults then the low number that are convited for the drime every year. The second tragedy to these occurring is that it is so damn hard to prove them beyond reasonable doubt.

**ScottH** · 7 October 2010, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by laughingnome

The unfortunate thing with sexual assault is that so often it is hard to prove anything beyond circumstancial evidence. Unless there is a witness or someone pleads guilty, it often comes down to word v word, and that's hard to convict anyone on - see Paul Keating last month. Vaginal bruising, footage of them meeting in the club showing one person being aggressively interested, party(ies) being intoxicated, these are all things that can be tested but none conclusively points to a crime being committed. Then you've got the problem of the claimant having to testify in court. Sexual assault is a devestating, emotionally crippling crime and having to face the alleged attacker can bring the hardiest claimant undone. I have no doubt that there are more sexual assaults then the low number that are convited for the drime every year. The second tragedy to these occurring is that it is so damn hard to prove them beyond reasonable doubt.

I've read this.
I know how hard it is for the victim. These girls were incredibly brave.

In the end it all comes down ot the word "consent".
I'm sure they have proof of who was there, but word v word, who is more beleivable.