GWS Discussion Thread

[Big Al]

The AFL went within an inch of letting us go bust in the early 90s. If it wasn't for the likes of Willesee, Kimberley and co doing their dough for the love of the club we would not be here.

We repeatedly asked for concessions like getting a prioroty pick for the best NSW junior and never got. Even salary cap concessions were fought all the way.

I know nothing of the AFL ever giving us special funding since the inception of the club. The new owners back in the 80s even had to pay a licence fee.

Fact? I don't think so......

The fact that Bas said 20 years makes your point about the 1980's irrelevant. In the early 90's the gentlemen you mention did indeed keep the club afloat financially before the AFL finally stepped in with an injection of cash. All the clubs bar one (Carlton) voted to save the Swans.

[laughingnome]

I side with Mug Punter. While the AFL ultimately did save the club through the cash injection Big Al mentions, they also let us (and Brisbane) be the guinea pigs for private ownership in the 80's that saw our fortunes take such a dive, and all the while not giving the club any special consideration to priority picks or other concessions.

Yes, the AFL came to the party in the early 90's, but GWS will never have the first 10 years that Sydney had because they are being spoonfed from the get-go. That, I think, is the point of conjecture Mug Punter is raising: The VFL/AFL didn't prop us up for 20 years, they let us rise, stumble and flail on our own before coming to the rescue in the nick of time. Maybe it hurt the Sydney Brand, maybe it built character, all I know is that it is no way going to be at all similar to GWS.

[Mug Punter]

I side with Mug Punter. While the AFL ultimately did save the club through the cash injection Big Al mentions, they also let us (and Brisbane) be the guinea pigs for private ownership in the 80's that saw our fortunes take such a dive, and all the while not giving the club any special consideration to priority picks or other concessions.

Yes, the AFL came to the party in the early 90's, but GWS will never have the first 10 years that Sydney had because they are being spoonfed from the get-go. That, I think, is the point of conjecture Mug Punter is raising: The VFL/AFL didn't prop us up for 20 years, they let us rise, stumble and flail on our own before coming to the rescue in the nick of time. Maybe it hurt the Sydney Brand, maybe it built character, all I know is that it is no way going to be at all similar to GWS.

The idea of comparing the creation of this guinea pig team to the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney in a "move or persih" scenario is just riduculous.

Go to a match in Melbourne and you'll be amazed by the amount of support for us. Sure some is from Sydneysiders who have moved but most of the old South Melbourne fans have stayed loyal because we respect their history and their traditions.

Comparing a one-off cash injection from the AFL to the HUNDREDS of misspent millions that will be wasted on this new plastic club is equally ridiculous.

Everyone keeps on harping on about how GWS is so good for the game in Sydney. My counter-argument is those hundreds of millions would be much better spent in providing grassroots funding and facilities in Sydney and actively growing the game from the bottom up. THEN we might be able to sustain a second team but certainly not now....

[ShockOfHair]

GWS is an exercise in marketing, not footy.

To be a successful footy club you need cash, membership and onfield success.

The AFL has said it will spend up to $200m on GSW and the Gold Coast over the next five to six years. Roughly speaking, you need around $30 million to run a viable AFL footy club. The Gold Coast Suns is going to be financially successful, so there's a lot of lolly left over to tip into GWS.

The smallest AFL clubs, like us and the Lions, have more than 20,000 members. You probably need at least 15,000 to be viable. Is that really so difficult in a catchment area of 2 million people (including ACT)? The Suns have around 12,000 members already and it wouldn't surprise me if GWS already has 8,000, as Bas says. There's already a sound AFL community in northwest Sydney, along with thousands of people in the region who are from AFL states who don't have a team. I can't see why the Giants can't get good membership numbers.

The onfield success is going to come, though probably not until 2014-15, unless it does some monumentally stupid things.

All those people who say they couldn't care less - just watch their reaction when GWS beats the Swans for the first time.

[Ken Oath]

The idea of comparing the creation of this guinea pig team to the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney in a "move or persih" scenario is just riduculous.

Go to a match in Melbourne and you'll be amazed by the amount of support for us. Sure some is from Sydneysiders who have moved but most of the old South Melbourne fans have stayed loyal because we respect their history and their traditions.

Comparing a one-off cash injection from the AFL to the HUNDREDS of misspent millions that will be wasted on this new plastic club is equally ridiculous.

Everyone keeps on harping on about how GWS is so good for the game in Sydney. My counter-argument is those hundreds of millions would be much better spent in providing grassroots funding and facilities in Sydney and actively growing the game from the bottom up. THEN we might be able to sustain a second team but certainly not now....

Well said. Best comment regarding GWS & AFL in general in Sydney.
Spot on.

[SimonH]

The idea of comparing the creation of this guinea pig team to the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney in a "move or persih" scenario is just riduculous.

Go to a match in Melbourne and you'll be amazed by the amount of support for us. Sure some is from Sydneysiders who have moved but most of the old South Melbourne fans have stayed loyal because we respect their history and their traditions.

Comparing a one-off cash injection from the AFL to the HUNDREDS of misspent millions that will be wasted on this new plastic club is equally ridiculous.

Everyone keeps on harping on about how GWS is so good for the game in Sydney. My counter-argument is those hundreds of millions would be much better spent in providing grassroots funding and facilities in Sydney and actively growing the game from the bottom up. THEN we might be able to sustain a second team but certainly not now....

Lovely theory, but in reality, the money is coming from the AFL, not the 'improve Aussie rules football in Sydney benevolent society', and the tail don't wag the dog. The focus of their efforts is not to, for example, develop competitive top-level Sydney comp clubs in the Parramatta-Penrith corridor. Projects that may ultimately have long-term benefits for Aussie rules in Sydney, but will take at least 10 years to increase the number of AFL players who hail from Sydney, and may not have much positive benefit at all in terms of improving attendance at AFL games played in Sydney, aren't the league's focus.

It's not, and has never been, a question of 'Do you want tens or hundreds of millions to further massively increase Sydney junior participation and follow-through to senior grades, plus growing Sydney AFL into a league to outshine Canberra and rival WAFL, SANFL or VFL; or do you want the same amount of money to start up GWS in the AFL and sustain them for a decade plus of heavy financial losses?' If the money weren't coming for GWS, it wouldn't be coming at all.

I think that using Sydney Swans as a point of comparison and contrast, isn't arguing that 1982 is identical to 2012. I don't read anyone as suggesting that moving a long-established and proud Melbourne-based VFL club up north, is the same as the AFL effectively starting its own franchise from the ground up.

Decent effort to beat Ainslie, who are no slouches, incidentally. Would be interested to hear who the stars were.

[Mug Punter]

Lovely theory, but in reality, the money is coming from the AFL, not the 'improve Aussie rules football in Sydney benevolent society', and the tail don't wag the dog. The focus of their efforts is not to, for example, develop competitive top-level Sydney comp clubs in the Parramatta-Penrith corridor. Projects that may ultimately have long-term benefits for Aussie rules in Sydney, but will take at least 10 years to increase the number of AFL players who hail from Sydney, and may not have much positive benefit at all in terms of improving attendance at AFL games played in Sydney, aren't the league's focus.

It's not, and has never been, a question of 'Do you want tens or hundreds of millions to further massively increase Sydney junior participation and follow-through to senior grades, plus growing Sydney AFL into a league to outshine Canberra and rival WAFL, SANFL or VFL; or do you want the same amount of money to start up GWS in the AFL and sustain them for a decade plus of heavy financial losses?' If the money weren't coming for GWS, it wouldn't be coming at all.

I think that using Sydney Swans as a point of comparison and contrast, isn't arguing that 1982 is identical to 2012. I don't read anyone as suggesting that moving a long-established and proud Melbourne-based VFL club up north, is the same as the AFL effectively starting its own franchise from the ground up.

Decent effort to beat Ainslie, who are no slouches, incidentally. Would be interested to hear who the stars were.

Not talking about an 'improve Aussie rules football in Sydney benevolent society', and I think the tail is definitely wagging this dog.

Just my opinion but I think if a more considered bottom up approach had been adopted then this mob would have had a much better chance of success. GWS is just part of a hastilly drawn together media rights deal play. It's high risk if the deal doesn't come off.

I just see this whole exercise as a house of cards built on fragile foundations, Genuine engagement with the local footy community that had the sport at a grass roots level strong and flourishing (not struggling as it is now) qwould have created a better environment for success.

But it's not about that is it, it's about Gonzo's desire to leave a legacy. What that legacy is only time will tell.

Who cares if they beat Ainslie? Apparently Israel got SIX touches - amazing stats for the man with the leather allergy....

[Cheer Squad]

GWS has a foundation membership base of about 8,500 members. I was told that by someone I know who is associated with the Club.

GWS publish their membership figures on a daily basis. Here's the link:

Greater Western Sydney Giants | Home

They will probably pass 9,000 foundation members next week sometime.

As to who's buying the memberships, it's a safe bet that GWS has more than a few dual members with the Swans, plus ex-patriate interstate members of other clubs (there must be thousands of these people in Sydney). There would also be some genuine western suburbs locals (how many is the $64,000 question).

Of course, the crunch will come next year, when we find out how many of these $50 Foundation Memberships convert into full memberships.

[Mug Punter]

GWS publish their membership figures on a daily basis. Here's the link:

Greater Western Sydney Giants | Home

They will probably pass 9,000 foundation members next week sometime.

As to who's buying the memberships, it's a safe bet that GWS has more than a few dual members with the Swans, plus ex-patriate interstate members of other clubs (there must be thousands of these people in Sydney). There would also be some genuine western suburbs locals (how many is the $64,000 question).

Of course, the crunch will come next year, when we find out how many of these $50 Foundation Memberships convert into full memberships.

Check out the Bogan with his Snowboard, think you'll find a black and white strip underthat godwaful strip of theirs......

[Mug Punter]

Check out the Bogan with his Snowboard, think you'll find a black and white strip underthat godwaful strip of theirs......

Or the Geordie with Noocastle strip on and tough sticks. One of Gazza'a mates probably, as if he'll hang around once they've copped their third 100 hiding in a row.

A more motley crew it would be hard to find. LMAO

[unconfuseme]

lets get real here ... they have a couple of thousand members, at best, from their 2million + Western Sydney catchment area, which is poor!

... the first 5000+ members signed up for $50 a pop the middle of last year, and are all from CANBERRA under the "ACT 4 GWS" deal that ensures that once they are up and running, they will rarely play in Greater Western Sydney anyway!

... so if you are one of those few and true fans from Blacktown, make sure you get the car serviced regularly, and have plenty of warm clothes! ... it's a nice trip down to the nation's capital, but less fun on the way back after a floggin!!!

[Big Al]

lets get real here ... they have a couple of thousand members, at best, from their 2million + Western Sydney catchment area, which is poor!

... the first 5000+ members signed up for $50 a pop the middle of last year, and are all from CANBERRA under the "ACT 4 GWS" deal that ensures that once they are up and running, they will rarely play in Greater Western Sydney anyway!

... so if you are one of those few and true fans from Blacktown, make sure you get the car serviced regularly, and have plenty of warm clothes! ... it's a nice trip down to the nation's capital, but less fun on the way back after a floggin!!!

How about 20,000 members in a city of 4 million for a team actually playing. Utterly disgraceful.

Also the RAS, AFL and State Govt are putting in millions to redevolop the showground so I don't think they'll take to kindly to GWS rarely playing in Western Sydney.

[Mug Punter]

lets get real here ... they have a couple of thousand members, at best, from their 2million + Western Sydney catchment area, which is poor!

... the first 5000+ members signed up for $50 a pop the middle of last year, and are all from CANBERRA under the "ACT 4 GWS" deal that ensures that once they are up and running, they will rarely play in Greater Western Sydney anyway!

... so if you are one of those few and true fans from Blacktown, make sure you get the car serviced regularly, and have plenty of warm clothes! ... it's a nice trip down to the nation's capital, but less fun on the way back after a floggin!!!

The sell-out to Canberra was a complete disgrace (not that I give a rat's). The amount of taxpayer money being wasted at Homebush where we already have an AFL venue, is a disgrace.

When this exercise totally hits the skids in season 3 or 4 I could quite easilly see a permanent re-location and branding to Canberra. That actually makes sense as the local ACTAFL has been stagnating for years down there with the Brumbies and Raiders dominating the market. Plus they have a huge genuine catchment area from the Riverina.

[Cheer Squad]

They've now got an even 9000 members...

Greater Western Sydney Giants | Home

The milestone, 10,000, will be a significant one if it can be achieved.

[R-1]

Hey, a permament relocation to Canberra wouldn't be a bad thing for mine! We're pretty football starved down here, spare a thought for us before you complain about losing a couple of games. I mean, Sydney (the city) will be getting football nearly every other weekend starting next year.

I'm a Giants member and will likely go to all three of their Canberra games (although we will NEVER get a regular season Swans game down here obviously) becuase it's important to grow the game. The way I figure it, Canberra will never get its own team if we can't support the Giants part time.