Swans Moments nominations for future HoF

[liz]

What does "QBE can be a moment" actually mean? .

It doesn't mean anything.

There is a spiel on the Swans' Heritage list concept somewhere on the official website, but broadly it can contain practically anything - except people (that is what the HofF is for) - which is deemed to be part of the fabric of the club. They can be physical objects, such as memorabilia or grounds, or can be more intangible things including concepts, moments, whole games, and, in QBE's case, long term partners. The first 5 items adopted onto the list covered many of these possibilities and were:

- the first red and white guernsey adpoted after South Melbourne merged with Albert Park
- the club song
- QBE
- the Albert Park Lakeside Oval
- the Leo Barry mark

If one is going to go along with the Heritage list idea, it is probably not an unreasonable group of items to start with, representing both the old South Melbourne and the more recent Sydney heritage. They are all things with an unquestionable connection with the fabric of the club (certainly if one interprets the first jumper as representing "red and white" moreso than the guernsey itself).

One can take aim at whether a long term sponsor is part of the fabric of the club but I have no problem with it. The association between the club and QBE is one that practically any AFL fan would recognise, and many non-AFL fans too. Only Camry at the Crows and Ford at Geelong would have anything like the same level of instant recognition as sponsor. One only has to read of a number of clubs who every other year seem to be scrambling around for a major sponsor on the eve of the season to recognise the benefits to the club of having such a long term relationship (and one that has allowed the likes of Volksvagen and Citi to muscle in on the guernsey in recent years). No doubt QBE gains some commercial benefit from the sponsorship but it is one that must be hard to put any kind of quantitative value on.

[Bas]

It doesn't mean anything.

Exactly.

To qualify as a member of HOF, the Swans website states:-

Inductions in 2009 and again in 2011 are restricted to players and coaches, with administrators and officials being considered for future inductions.

The board wanted it known that selections were not a simple formulaic exercise where statistics were dominant. Rather, it is as much about character, passion, leadership, courage and a host of other personal traits that invariably separate the true champion from the rest.


Therefore, following their own criteria that no one who has not played, coached or been involved with the administration of the Club can be elected and join the HOF. So Richard Colless can become part of the HOF but someone like Kenny can't. I say Kenny because I don't know any of the other voliunteers who have been with the Club for decades and have at some time or another demonstrated the sames characteristics as what Colless has with regard to the Club. I'm sure there are many players over the years that have looked up to certain non admin individuals that have helped them on or off the field. Those individuals can't be elected for HOF. Neither can any trainer, boot studder or lunch maker. Isn't that hypocritical then?

Yet, our image and understanding of sponsorship, on field activity, volunteering and dedication (without personal financial benefit) gets severly blurred.

So going back to my original argument, if QBE can become a "moment" then why can't Kenny become a "moment" or anyone else of his like.

So Liz, with the examples you gave, those items I agree are all significant heritage however Robbie Ahmat running down the sideline to score a goal, in my opinion are not. Neither is (and this hasn't been mentioned previously in this or a recent similar thread) the first speccy mark that Paul Kelly took over in Fremantle after he was sneaked over by the Swans to play after his year and a bit off with the knee injury. Great individual efforts but not HOF in my opinion.

My opinion, but then I can look at it from not being influenced at having attended a Swans function, heavily funded by QBE but from tickets supplied by not QBE but Basil Sellers. I could afford the ticket but chose neither to go or enter the fan lottery. It was a very generous gesture however by Basil Sellers to offer the tickets to the "genuine" people who support the Club year in and year out. Does he qualify for HOF?

[Wardy]

Exactly.

To qualify as a member of HOF, the Swans website states:-

Inductions in 2009 and again in 2011 are restricted to players and coaches, with administrators and officials being considered for future inductions.

The board wanted it known that selections were not a simple formulaic exercise where statistics were dominant. Rather, it is as much about character, passion, leadership, courage and a host of other personal traits that invariably separate the true champion from the rest.


Therefore, following their own criteria that no one who has not played, coached or been involved with the administration of the Club can be elected and join the HOF. So Richard Colless can become part of the HOF but someone like Kenny can't. I say Kenny because I don't know any of the other voliunteers who have been with the Club for decades and have at some time or another demonstrated the sames characteristics as what Colless has with regard to the Club. I'm sure there are many players over the years that have looked up to certain non admin individuals that have helped them on or off the field. Those individuals can't be elected for HOF. Neither can any trainer, boot studder or lunch maker. Isn't that hypocritical then?

Yet, our image and understanding of sponsorship, on field activity, volunteering and dedication (without personal financial benefit) gets severly blurred.

So going back to my original argument, if QBE can become a "moment" then why can't Kenny become a "moment" or anyone else of his like.

So Liz, with the examples you gave, those items I agree are all significant heritage however Robbie Ahmat running down the sideline to score a goal, in my opinion are not. Neither is (and this hasn't been mentioned previously in this or a recent similar thread) the first speccy mark that Paul Kelly took over in Fremantle after he was sneaked over by the Swans to play after his year and a bit off with the knee injury. Great individual efforts but not HOF in my opinion.

My opinion, but then I can look at it from not being influenced at having attended a Swans function, heavily funded by QBE but from tickets supplied by not QBE but Basil Sellers. I could afford the ticket but chose neither to go or enter the fan lottery. It was a very generous gesture however by Basil Sellers to offer the tickets to the "genuine" people who support the Club year in and year out. Does he qualify for HOF?

Chill Bas!!! obviously your are not fond of the idea - so be it.

[Bas]

Chill Bas!!! obviously your are not fond of the idea - so be it.

I am perfectly calm in the most angelic way.

Simply pointing out some of my observations. I think the retention of heritage is very important.

[liz]

So going back to my original argument, if QBE can become a "moment" then why can't Kenny become a "moment" or anyone else of his like.

But I don't understand how QBE can become a "moment" or who is suggesting it is a "moment" - anymore than our club song, Lakeside Oval or red and white are "moments". "Moment" is just one category of item that can be included on the Heritage List.

The reason Kenny doesn't qualify for the Heritage List is because the charter the club has created for this list explicitly excludes individuals. We can argue about the rights or wrongs of this decision - but it is fact that they have drawn up the rules this way.

Whether Kenny, or anyone else of his ilk, could ever get into the HofF is a separate question.

[Bas]

That's right, just remembered, the QBE Insurance as major sponsors of the Swans are also included in the list. So I don't see why not the Sydney chant, which had a definite moment in time, 4th quarter, Rnd 22, 1996, would not be in consideration.

Now Bas - As for this initiative, I reckon if QBE can be a "moment" then the criteria is quite broad.

But I don't understand how QBE can become a "moment" or who is suggesting it is a "moment" - anymore than our club song, Lakeside Oval or red and white are "moments". "Moment" is just one category of item that can be included on the Heritage List.

I wasn't even there on the night so I have no idea who suggested it. You were there so I thought you would have known. I was only commenting on previous posts referring to QBE as qualifying under the suggested category.

I agree with your comments on Kenny, as I reprinted the charter that relates to this showing why he can't.

Time to move on regarding this for me before I have a moment.

[liz]

I wasn't even there on the night so I have no idea who suggested it. You were there so I thought you would have known. I was only commenting on previous posts referring to QBE as qualifying under the suggested category.

But you're the one who has referred to QBE as a "moment" on several occasions throughout this thread. There was no description at the H of F dinner or anywhere else I can recall of QBE as a "moment".

I am just confused as to where this concept has come from. As I tried to explain above, something can be onn the Heritage List without being a "moment".

[Bas]

There had been a decision taken to include "moments" from the Swans journey to include in our Hall of Fame. I thought that we could perhaps make a list of moments we treasure and maybe Scott can work out a nomination sheet that we could vote on for the most important to US, and send it to the club for consideration.

Now Bas - As for this initiative, I reckon if QBE can be a "moment" then the criteria is quite broad. (and I love QBE - they have been kind enough to invite me to many Swans functions over the years - all gladly accepted and enjoyed) All Primmy was doing was bringing it to the RWO families attention. We all have an opportunity to contribute to this - I think its a great idea. If you want to contribute - then go right ahead, if not, then dont - pretty simple.

But you're the one who has referred to QBE as a "moment" on several occasions throughout this thread. There was no description at the H of F dinner or anywhere else I can recall of QBE as a "moment".

I am just confused as to where this concept has come from. As I tried to explain above, something can be onn the Heritage List without being a "moment".

I give up!!!!!!!!!

[Big Al]

Quote from Colless on the what could be included in the Heritage Listing.

the type of items that might be on the Heritage List include physical and tangible things such as a football ground, a grandstand or a locker room. It could be a piece of apparel, a photo, or a flag, trophy or song.?

?But it could also be something more intangible, such as a moment from a game, or an entire game.?

This is a great initiative in my opinion. Pretty much anything that has had a profound effect on the club could be included.

[Bas]

Quote from Colless on the what could be included in the Heritage Listing.

This is a great initiative in my opinion. Pretty much anything that has had a profound effect on the club could be included.

Now that we have concrete criteria for nomination. I'd like to nominate: Plugger's jockstrap - as it carried two groins in 96.

[Primmy]

Thank you al for the final word. Now. Can we please get back to the original thread of what you think you would like to see included in the Swans collection of what we the people hold dear to our hearts that contribute to the fabric which makes the Swans, like the night the chant went up, the final quarter of the 2005 EF against Geelong, MickeyO's rebel yell, even the call "he got up! he just got up" or "I see it but I don't believe it, What is going on!" etc etc etc. The bits and pieces, bibs and bobs. OK?

[Big Al]

Now that we have concrete criteria for nomination. I'd like to nominate: Plugger's jockstrap - as it carried two groins in 96.

As long as it's washed I'd be happy for it to be included.

[Big Al]

Thank you al for the final word. Now. Can we please get back to the original thread of what you think you would like to see included in the Swans collection of what we the people hold dear to our hearts that contribute to the fabric which makes the Swans, like the night the chant went up, the final quarter of the 2005 EF against Geelong, MickeyO's rebel yell, even the call "he got up! he just got up" or "I see it but I don't believe it, What is going on!" etc etc etc. The bits and pieces, bibs and bobs. OK?

Moments
Pluggers Point
Nic Davis' Heroics
2003 v Port
"Syyydddnnney" Chant

Tangible Items
SCG
Premiership Cups
Brownlow Medals Won
Sydney Guernsey (Current Opera House Design)

Hard to narrow it down to worthy items because we have so much history that including one thing or moment could raise a debate on the inclusion of a number of similiar things or moments.

[Bas]

1. As I mentioned previously, Paul Kelly's speccy against Fremantle after his year and a bit off. The secrecy of playing him and then the remarkable mark he took to show he was back in the game. As I think at the time he said something about testing it to see if it was going to break.

2. Kirk's shirt front in 2003 against Port in first final;

3. Can't leave out the singing dog out the front of the SCG for Roos election to coach.

4. Any of Plugger's 10 plus goal hauls. My favourite was against Richmond in 96 at the SCG

5. The Swanettes and/or Luffetes.

6. The dearly departed man who had the" Swan on the stick" for all those years. I think he passed away after going to a Geelong game down Geelong way. Can't remember year now.

Sadly two other events that had profound effects on the Club that won't be mentioned would include the tragic loss of George Stones (?) son and the death of the Swans trainer during the Kangaroos game in 2004.

Pity the Club never had microphones set up near where Kenny and his friends barrack behind the goal posts a few profound profanities would have gone into the archives.

[Big Al]

1
4. Any of Plugger's 10 plus goal hauls. My favourite was against Richmond in 96 at the SCG

My favourite game from Plugger as well. He was at the peak of his powers that day. Kicked his 100th and a lazy 12 for the day. For kids growing up today it's the game you show
them to demonstrate what a freakish footballer he was and one we'll never probably see again.

Question: Will Plugger ever be made a Bloods Legend???