Changes for Rnd 10 v Roos (LJ to debut!)

[Melbournehammer]

It seemed to me that they tried Marty on the wing late in the game. However, I would prefer Marty back in defence and Mal further up the ground - it plays to their strengths. Marty's forte is his desperation in defence but tends to get the fumbles and his kicking does slip up now and then. Mal's main asset is his kicking (save for his set shot yesterday which I felt was a turning point) but isn't as defensively orientated as Marty.

Completely agree with this and also our structural issues. Marty is a much better defender than mal and mal I would prefer see deliver into the forward line.

The real problem is a bit how Liz has identified. The pressure around the ball has meant that we are bombing it long from a stoppage - I reckon bird, o keefe Kennedy all were forced into high slow kicks. And the hawks all day had a two on one with Reid at the point of the up and under kick. The ball just came back so fast out of this tactic. I would have preferred us to have manned up at some stage and relied on our defenders one in one at the back rather than have the two on one where we did actually win the ball. Maybe we would have been even more beaten but the consequence was a dysfunctional forward line and a midfield that was always just kicking it in hope because there was no one available in an uncontested marking situation.

Mal is simply not a great defender and Marty is a much more desperate defender in the contests.

[The Big Cat]

I can't see why people are questioning AJ's position. I thought he was one of our few shining lights.

[ugg]

I can't see why people are questioning AJ's position. I thought he was one of our few shining lights.

It's a structural issue and not a slight on his performances over the past few weeks. If we push LRT back to defence, we risk being too tall with Ted, Reg, LRT and AJ, and we'd probably have to jettison one. The coaches are more likely to back the experience of the former 3 over AJ at this stage. Unless of course, they want to trial AJ as a forward given he played there in the juniors.

[swansrule100]

I'm not convinced about the team balance - specifically, the number of HBFers we have. A couple of seasons ago you couldn't have too many of these, because the key was how the ball was run out of defence via a chain of handballs. But with the forward press in vogue at the moment, it is almost impossible to do this, meaning more teams (including us) are resorting to a quick, untargeted kick under pressure, and hoping to either take a mark in the midfield or at least get the ball over the boundary.

Marty played the early season more as a key defender than a rebounder and didn't do too badly given it's not really his thing. But now we have Ted, Reg and AJ, not to mention LRT (whose best value is really as a defender, not a makeshift ruck-cum-forward). We also have Kennelly and Malceski now back in the team.

I know Shaw is everyone's favourite whipping boy (in the absence of Bevan and Moore) but he's actually been doing defensive roles on small, quick forwards. Cyril beat him today, and he made some disposal howlers, but I doubt anyone else would have kept Rioli quieter and I didn't think he disgraced himself by any means. But something else has to give. We need more players who can play further up the ground and really keep the defensive pressure tighter around our half forward line.

Mattner has been terrific this year but I am not quite sure there is spot for him in defence if Mal and Kennelly are down there also. I'd like to see him tried on the wing, or half-forward because he can chase and tackle. Alternatively Mal needs to play that role - less for his tackling than for his ability to just sometimes spot up a target in the forward 50. Or maybe there isn't room at the moment for Kennelly in the side - he is a bit of a spare parts player at the moment, neither defending convincingly nor providing much drive from the backline. His first game back, he played further up the ground, so maybe he too, could be tried somewhere else. One of them needs to provide something around the wings / half forward line.

i was thinking the same sort of thing earlier. But im thinking that Mattner is probably more useful in defence than Kennelly for a start. Kennelly gets a bit more of the ball but im not sure he is all that effective at times.

Im not sure of any real solution but sometimes the sides is perhaps the 22 most talented players rather than the 22 that gives us the best and balanced side. We have a lot of similar players and it forces people into roles they cant always perform in.

[ScottH]

I can't see why people are questioning AJ's position. I thought he was one of our few shining lights.

He struggled yesterday a few times under pressure, but all up he seems to be doing a fine job.

[CJK]

I know we're in trouble when I am thinking that Bevan might be a decent option up forward.

[Plugger46]

I can't see why people are questioning AJ's position. I thought he was one of our few shining lights.

I think it's more a question of balance. I like him but we've got defenders everywhere and very few forwards.

[jono2707]

Trddy might need a rest, and Mattner was probably the worst game I've seen him play. We simply can't rely on Jude and Goodes and ROK to carry us every week, the opposition teams know who they have to take out of the game, and even though Hanners played well today, he is not seasoned enough to carry us. We can't win a flag this year, start looking forward and trying some different things.Let's bite the bullet and risk losing some games without complaining. There are no miracles in footy, just hard work and game time

Is Teddy injured? If not, he ain't going nowhere.....

We should never 'risk losing some games'. We should try to win every single game we play. Yesterday was disappointing but part of our DNA is to go out there and do our utmost to compete and win every single game. I expect nothing less....

[Melbournehammer]

Is Teddy injured? If not, he ain't going nowhere.....

We should never 'risk losing some games'. We should try to win every single game we play. Yesterday was disappointing but part of our DNA is to go out there and do our utmost to compete and win every single game. I expect nothing less....

I can't agree more. The idea that you would choose to be less than fully competitive is beyond me. however in games we do need a plan B. i remember numerous occasions in the past when the contested game was broken open and we flowed out all over the place - in fact one of my favourite games for such a style was v richmond in 2003 at the mcg when we went absolutely crazy for 1/4 and almost won the game (and but for a mickey o and jared crouch miss we may have won it).

sadly at the moment we dont appear to have any real structure to charge at players with the ball in hand

just wondering but i am beginning to think the original fremantle approach in the 90s might be the way to play the full-on press - but with more in the way of shepharding - the whole game has a sense of being a little like gridiron at the moment with zonal coverage and a manic attack on the ball. perhaps what does need to be developed is that sort of response of protect the ball carrier at all costs ? ie have a couple of blockers in each situation ?

Thats only half serious but i do wonder whether it might not be better to look at how well we assist players with the ball - after all rioli outplayed goodes and mcveigh because neither of them actually shepherded effectively

[Scottee]

I'm not convinced about the team balance - specifically, the number of HBFers we have. A couple of seasons ago you couldn't have too many of these, because the key was how the ball was run out of defence via a chain of handballs. But with the forward press in vogue at the moment, it is almost impossible to do this, meaning more teams (including us) are resorting to a quick, untargeted kick under pressure, and hoping to either take a mark in the midfield or at least get the ball over the boundary.

Marty played the early season more as a key defender than a rebounder and didn't do too badly given it's not really his thing. But now we have Ted, Reg and AJ, not to mention LRT (whose best value is really as a defender, not a makeshift ruck-cum-forward). We also have Kennelly and Malceski now back in the team.

I know Shaw is everyone's favourite whipping boy (in the absence of Bevan and Moore) but he's actually been doing defensive roles on small, quick forwards. Cyril beat him today, and he made some disposal howlers, but I doubt anyone else would have kept Rioli quieter and I didn't think he disgraced himself by any means. But something else has to give. We need more players who can play further up the ground and really keep the defensive pressure tighter around our half forward line.

Mattner has been terrific this year but I am not quite sure there is spot for him in defence if Mal and Kennelly are down there also. I'd like to see him tried on the wing, or half-forward because he can chase and tackle. Alternatively Mal needs to play that role - less for his tackling than for his ability to just sometimes spot up a target in the forward 50. Or maybe there isn't room at the moment for Kennelly in the side - he is a bit of a spare parts player at the moment, neither defending convincingly nor providing much drive from the backline. His first game back, he played further up the ground, so maybe he too, could be tried somewhere else. One of them needs to provide something around the wings / half forward line.

Strongly agree with you on this one Liz. Team structure is poor. Mumford found himself against three ruckmen in the Hawkes game.Baily would wear him down , then Roughhead would come in fresh and towell him up at the same time as the Hawks were getting away with illegal tactics of shepherding in the ruck wich was not even challenged by us. Then Buddy would make the situation even worse by making a cameo as the third man up. This left the only option for a power forward as LRT who is a great CHB/FB but an ordinary forward.

A good power forward like White , who in my opinion only lost form because he can't play in the wet, or Seaby, would have really stretched their defense when they were vulnerable. But we chose not to do this.

As far as the team for next week and goes, Jetta seems to be a certain out and Everett may not get a run either.

Given the large number of backs we have it would be useful to put the Mattner to a wing or HFF where he can deliver well to the forward line or kick goals himself. The same could apply to Malceski. White or Seaby need to come in for Everett.LJ It is also worth a try.

The side could look like this:

Smith LRT Grundy
Kennelly Richards Johnson
Malceski Goodes Hannebery
Mattner Reid McGlynn
McVeigh Seaby O'Keefe
Mummy Kennedy
Bolton

LJ, Parker, Shaw /TDL

In: Seaby (or White), LJ, TDL

Out: Bird(this is a hard one, only to get exta pace in the side), Everitt, Jetta

[Captain]

I know we're in trouble when I am thinking that Bevan might be a decent option up forward.

He is actually a pretty good forward, knows where the goals are and competes well.

[On-Baller]

I think we should drop LRT,Kennelly and Reid.

Lrt isnt in our best back 6 at the moment and theres no way he should be playing as anything other than a defender.
Kennelly although looking ok when he had it yesterday is looking old and isnt accountable enough on the turnover,his direct opponents had big games yesterday.I'd rather see a young guy like Rohan or Smith playing the running HB role with Mal.
Reid although he's been pretty good needs a rest i feel.His body isnt upto it yet and in the last couple of games he's taken maybe 2 marks early and then fades out,time to rest him for a week or two.

In-Currie If he has a youth policy then horse needs to play Currie before Seeby.
White-No matter what others may think to me he's a ten times better option than LRT up forward or around the ground.
TDL-Give him some games now,no point waitng to the end of season,if he's not good enough to play at his age he needs to be moved on at years end,same with Moore and Bevan.

[RogueSwan]

We can't win a flag this year...

Glad you weren't in charge in 2005 . After 8 games we were 4W - 4L. This year we are 4W-3L-1D, ? a game better than our premiership year.
And if we win our next two, which we should (whether we do or not ....), we will be 1? games in front of where we were in 2005.


And, yes, my glass still looks half full.

[dimelb]

Glad you weren't in charge in 2005 . After 8 games we were 4W - 4L. This year we are 4W-3L-1D, ? a game better than our premiership year.
And if we win our next two, which we should (whether we do or not ....), we will be 1? games in front of where we were in 2005.


And, yes, my glass still looks half full.

And furthermore, we are playing ugly football!

[Hartijon]

He is actually a pretty good forward, knows where the goals are and competes well.

Bevan has usually been worth his place as a forward.The problem is the coaches. They can't resist putting him back to a defensive position.There he gives us all heart failure with his clangers. If he was put in a forward pocket and KEPT there I am sure he would contribute well.