Big Bad Barry

[goswannie14]

Thanks CTR. It wasn't obvious on TV that that many players had gone to Hall after the siren.

Thanks also to Go Swannies for reminding us that Kirky and Leaping Leo could've lifted the Cup in 2005. In hindsight, wouldn't it have been great if one of those 2 received the honour instead of Hally?

No.

[goswannie14]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...-1226100117751

Good article from Rebecca Wilson ... provides much food for thought.

Whether it is good or not could be a matter for debate.

Urgh. Reading that article made me feel physically ill.

The depths that journos will stoop to in order to grab a story knows no bounds.

Calling Wilson a Journalist could be stretching the meaning of the word.

Crap article from a loud mouthed know it all pathetic excuse for a journalist.

[SwansFan1972]

Urgh. Reading that article made me feel physically ill.

The depths that journos will stoop to in order to grab a story knows no bounds.

Interesting reaction. Generally I agree about journos, but I have to say I didn't see much in that article that would indicate she made anything up, or was being harsh or unreasonable. You clearly did though - which parts in particular?

The Hall call to Roos that went ignored seems to be Baz's biggest beef (as alluded to all week by him). Question has to be asked though - what exactly was he expecting to hear from Roos that would have made any difference to the situation? It was clearly a last straw moment, and Hall would have to have been some kind of fool (which I don't think he is) to think anything he could say would have changed things.

[SwansFan1972]

Whether it is good or not could be a matter for debate.


Calling Wilson a Journalist could be stretching the meaning of the word.

Crap article from a loud mouthed know it all pathetic excuse for a journalist.

Nice tee off and very professional name calling - but am interested in what you find so objectionable about what she wrote.

[Jewels]

I am only on the third page of this thread but have sooooooo many different posts I wanted to respond to that I have to early.
Therefore:

I ignored him. He has dissed us off, even though he was captain of this club, won a grand final, was forgiven his transgressions until turning a blind eye was no longer tennable. And he had the temerity to dismiss 25,000 Sydney Swans as being irrelivent (sic). Never wonder why he was booed.

Stuff Barry Hall.

He cost us a premiership, and now wants to be remembered as a Dog

Spot on to both of these, my feeling exactly.

I am not stopping people from booing Barry Hall. It is your perfect right to do so. But in myopinion, I repeat: it is childish to boo Barry Hall. Immature, purile-childish.

I also repeat: to be SO ingrateful about his contributions to the club, particularly in light of 2005, that you feel the NEED to boo him: I question if one is a true Swans supporter. Afterall, he is the only one of four players to captain the club to a VFL/AFL Premiership in their history. And I don't care if you've been supporting the club since 1874!

Finally, I pose the question to those of you who booed Barry Hall. If you are consistent with your attitude to Hall, you will be compelled to boo him the night he is honoured by the club with a Hall of Fame disitinction, (and that night will come eventually)

I boo Hall, booed him in the warm up, booed him when he ran on the field and booed him every time he went near the ball, HE WAS WEARING A BULLDOGS GUERNSEY IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE!!!!! That's the guernsey of the club that he wishes to be remembered as being associated with, not the club that he was soooo magnificent for (your thoughts not mind). He disses the Swans every chance he gets so why shouldn't I diss him when I get the chance?
Oh and finally, I'd feel VERY compelled to boo him at a HOF, again cause he has dissed us EVERY CHANCE THAT HE HAS HAD!!!!
You take a very "Holier than thou" stance in this matter, as is your right, but step down off your soap box and give others the right to support however they want.

Well here's something for you to ponder. Those who didn't boo Barry Hall are not true Swans supporters because the club comes before player allegiances.

Now obviously that's a load of crap but hopefully you get the point that assessing someone as not a true supporter is rubbish. Happy for you to criticize and disagree with people but cut out calling people childish and not true supporters.

Love your work Al.......

[top40]

I am only on the third page of this thread but have sooooooo many different posts I wanted to respond to that I have to early.
Therefore:





Spot on to both of these, my feeling exactly.



I boo Hall, booed him in the warm up, booed him when he ran on the field and booed him every time he went near the ball, HE WAS WEARING A BULLDOGS GUERNSEY IN CASE YOU DIDN'T NOTICE!!!!! That's the guernsey of the club that he wishes to be remembered as being associated with, not the club that he was soooo magnificent for (your thoughts not mind). He disses the Swans every chance he gets so why shouldn't I diss him when I get the chance?
Oh and finally, I'd feel VERY compelled to boo him at a HOF, again cause he has dissed us EVERY CHANCE THAT HE HAS HAD!!!!
You take a very "Holier than thou" stance in this matter, as is your right, but step down off your soap box and give others the right to support however they want.



Love your work Al.......

Saying I am "Holier than thou" and "on a soap box", (an extraordinary irony noting this website is ALL ABOUT people on soap boxes via an internet website!), represents personal mudthrowing. It is attacking the person not the ball

NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I made judgmental, personal and nasty attacks against individuals who have contributed to this particular thread. Not once have a got down to the mud and been "personal" it were, simply because I do not agree with one's comments.

Once this debate gets personal and nasty, it becomes an unnessary exercise for everyone!

[Red]

Whether it is good or not could be a matter for debate.

Calling Wilson a Journalist could be stretching the meaning of the word.

Crap article from a loud mouthed know it all pathetic excuse for a journalist.

It's certainly an opinionated piece. I thought the illustration (by Boo Baily ) was amusing:

[BSA5]

Interesting reaction. Generally I agree about journos, but I have to say I didn't see much in that article that would indicate she made anything up, or was being harsh or unreasonable. You clearly did though - which parts in particular?

The Hall call to Roos that went ignored seems to be Baz's biggest beef (as alluded to all week by him). Question has to be asked though - what exactly was he expecting to hear from Roos that would have made any difference to the situation? It was clearly a last straw moment, and Hall would have to have been some kind of fool (which I don't think he is) to think anything he could say would have changed things.

The problem I have is she has made a mountain out of a molehill. Hall and Roos have both categorically stated that there is no rift, no hard feelings. Hall said he feels more like a Bulldog, well OF COURSE he feels more like a Bulldog! He IS one! After he has retired, he will probably feel differently, but he was just saying what is appropriate. It would have been a shocking look for him to say, "Nah, my heart's still with the good ol' Swannies" days before he goes out and plays us!

What's more sickening is her portrayal of the Swans as some sort of charity that Hall took advantage of and ditched, which gave Hall a thousand chances before finally giving up, and finally, for having a no dickheads policy (that is the biggest load of tripe I've ever heard). Hall threw some punches on the field. He copped what he deserved from the MRP. That's it. The only reason Hall left the Swans was because he couldn't be trusted to perform. It wasn't an issue of morality, it was an issue of him still being a reliable player on the field (as opposed to a perennially suspended one).

The fact is, Hall has been nothing but a gentleman about the Swans since he has left. He has been frank about feeling let down by Roos on an interpersonal level, and Roos has stuck his hand up and admitted he didn't handle it well. Journos have since taken any statement that Hall has made about being happy with the Bulldogs and painted it out as a backhanded swipe at the Swans, which is plain ridiculous. How would we feel if Rhyce Shaw kept talking about the good old days at Collingwood? If Shane Mumford said he was still a Cat at heart? Or Josh Kennedy wanted to be back at the Hawks?

The entire Hall saga was messy and undesirable for everybody involved (except the Dogs), but it was handled as well as can be by all parties, with minimal fuss. The media are squeezing it for every bit of juice it has got, and it's pathetic.

[Bloody Hell]

I like Barry Hall. I hope in the future he can return to the club in some capacity (if those involved get over the melodrama.)

That said I'd boo the guernsey, but not the man.

[Cant turn right]

I like Barry Hall. I hope in the future he can return to the club in some capacity (if those involved get over the melodrama.)

That said I'd boo the guernsey, but not the man.

I'd agree with that

[Big Al]

Saying I am "Holier than thou" and "on a soap box", (an extraordinary irony noting this website is ALL ABOUT people on soap boxes via an internet website!), represents personal mudthrowing. It is attacking the person not the ball

NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I made judgmental, personal and nasty attacks against individuals who have contributed to this particular thread. Not once have a got down to the mud and been "personal" it were, simply because I do not agree with one's comments.

Once this debate gets personal and nasty, it becomes an unnessary exercise for everyone!

Interesting take on things. You labelled a group of Swans fans as childish and not true Swans supporters. That seems pretty personal to me but you justify it because you didn't name individuals. You can't expect people not to come back at you when you question the veracity of their support for the Swans. I for example can't on this forum say that people from Town X are all boguns without expecting all the Town X people return fire. I can't hide behind the fact that I didn't name any individuals.

[Go Swannies]

Hall threw some punches on the field.

That's a bit like saying Wayne Carey was a bit romantic at team parties. Or Fev likes a drink and a bet.

[SwansFan1972]

The problem I have is she has made a mountain out of a molehill. Hall and Roos have both categorically stated that there is no rift, no hard feelings. Hall said he feels more like a Bulldog, well OF COURSE he feels more like a Bulldog! He IS one! After he has retired, he will probably feel differently, but he was just saying what is appropriate. It would have been a shocking look for him to say, "Nah, my heart's still with the good ol' Swannies" days before he goes out and plays us!

What's more sickening is her portrayal of the Swans as some sort of charity that Hall took advantage of and ditched, which gave Hall a thousand chances before finally giving up, and finally, for having a no dickheads policy (that is the biggest load of tripe I've ever heard). Hall threw some punches on the field. He copped what he deserved from the MRP. That's it. The only reason Hall left the Swans was because he couldn't be trusted to perform. It wasn't an issue of morality, it was an issue of him still being a reliable player on the field (as opposed to a perennially suspended one).

The fact is, Hall has been nothing but a gentleman about the Swans since he has left. He has been frank about feeling let down by Roos on an interpersonal level, and Roos has stuck his hand up and admitted he didn't handle it well. Journos have since taken any statement that Hall has made about being happy with the Bulldogs and painted it out as a backhanded swipe at the Swans, which is plain ridiculous. How would we feel if Rhyce Shaw kept talking about the good old days at Collingwood? If Shane Mumford said he was still a Cat at heart? Or Josh Kennedy wanted to be back at the Hawks?

The entire Hall saga was messy and undesirable for everybody involved (except the Dogs), but it was handled as well as can be by all parties, with minimal fuss. The media are squeezing it for every bit of juice it has got, and it's pathetic.

I guess a lot of it is perception, but to me, it seemed that Hally went out of his way to make it clear he is a dog for life. Was that neccessary in the circumstances? Of course his loyalties are curently to the bulldogs (would expect no less), but would it really have hurt him to say 'sure, the premiership was a highlight and he'll never forget it'? That he was at pains to leave all reference to it out indicates that he still harbours bitterness, even with all the public 'i'm fine with him, he's fine with me' namby pamby stuff. The forthcoming book will sure make interesting reading!

As for comparing the situation to Mummy, Shaw or Kennedy - well, as comparisons go, that is real apples and oranges stuff. I doubt anyone could point to many similarities in the circumstances under which each was moved on from their clubs (along with pretty much all the other trades that take place in the AFL). The only comparable situation I can recall in recent seasons is Fevola. In both of these unique cases, neither club really wanted to part with the player, but ultimately the price of keeping them became too high.

Hall was moved on because he couldn't be trusted to keep his hands to himself - if that is what is regarded as his ability to perform. He was damaging the club's reputation, as well as its onfield performance by being a loose cannon and ultimately proving too big a distraction for his presence to be beneficial. Whose fault is that, by the way? He has only half put his hand up for it, and he has had swipes at Roos - a bit like a naughty child who knows deep down it has done wrong, but still wants to blame mum or dad a bit.

There is no doubt - absolutely none - that if Hall had been able to control himself on-field (like nearly every other footballer in the competition), he would have finished his career at the Swans. Maybe he just didn't want to admit he wanted out and so forced the hands of those who ultimately had to fire him? Who would know? Either way, responsibility is clearly not something he fronts up to as fully as he would have people believe.

And memories are short - he had issues when he left St Kilda and he also some early indications after coming to Sydney that managing him was not going to be as easy as it would be for most other footballers. His agression on field was so much of what made him great as a player, but clearly he lost sight of where the line was and ultimately crossed it too many times. Did this create headaches for his club? You bet it did.

Granted, he controlled himself for a large part of his time at the Swans and will be forever remembered, but he was not peter perfect, and if a journo wants to call him out on a few things - especially in a week when it has been all puff pieces, sycophancy and warm and fuzzy romance on his life as a dog - then that is closer to balance than pathetic in my book. And you'd hope Baz would be the first to say it is all water of a duck's back anyway.

Throwing all this around is good fun though and we will all have differing feelings on the enigma that is BBBH, who will always hold a special place as one of only four (so far!) of our beloved club's premiership captains. Good luck to him post footy - hopefully he has a happy retirement and can eventually look back over his whole career (rather than just the last two years) and feel satisfied and fulfilled.

[Jewels]

Saying I am "Holier than thou" and "on a soap box", (an extraordinary irony noting this website is ALL ABOUT people on soap boxes via an internet website!), represents personal mudthrowing. It is attacking the person not the ball

NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I made judgmental, personal and nasty attacks against individuals who have contributed to this particular thread. Not once have a got down to the mud and been "personal" it were, simply because I do not agree with one's comments.

Once this debate gets personal and nasty, it becomes an unnessary exercise for everyone!

Interesting take on things. You labelled a group of Swans fans as childish and not true Swans supporters. That seems pretty personal to me but you justify it because you didn't name individuals. You can't expect people not to come back at you when you question the veracity of their support for the Swans. I for example can't on this forum say that people from Town X are all boguns without expecting all the Town X people return fire. I can't hide behind the fact that I didn't name any individuals.

Thank you Al, your response is far more reasoned and polite then any that I could muster.

I'm getting tired of this lie continually being dished up. The captains after Maxfield in 2005 were Brett Kirk, Leo Barry and Barry Hall. Yes, in the rotation for stability they decided Baz would continue to do the captains duties throughout the whole finals series. But he was only 1/3 of the Swans Premiership captains. Brett and Leo have as much right as Baz to that title and as far as know both of them are still quite well and living.

And neither of them let us down as badly as Barry did. Few have. Or had such a long run of bad playing. 2004-06 Baz kicked 74, 80 and 78 (though notably none in the 2006 GF). In 2007 he kicked 44 and in 2008 he kicked 41. Sure he spent a lot of that time suspended but you must remember the distinct lack of confidence we all felt when he ran in to kick on goal.

His dismissal of the Swans this week deserves boos even if he wasn't playing for another team. It certainly diminishes him. Personally I enjoyed him walking off the SCG yesterday a loser with his new loser best mates. It was nice to see Tadhg and LRT go over to him but the rest rightly regarded him as an irrelevance.

I'll take bets we won't be happy when his book comes out. He's already showed his petulance. And anyone who saw the honour with which he was treated at the Swans 2008 B&F will know that, like so many breakups, it's him not us.

Very well put GS

[goswannie14]

Nice tee off and very professional name calling - but am interested in what you find so objectionable about what she wrote.

BSA5 pretty much sums it up here. But I have always felt like this about Wilson, and her brother is just as full of crap as she is. One of the many reasons why I don't watch Sunrise any more.

The problem I have is she has made a mountain out of a molehill. Hall and Roos have both categorically stated that there is no rift, no hard feelings. Hall said he feels more like a Bulldog, well OF COURSE he feels more like a Bulldog! He IS one! After he has retired, he will probably feel differently, but he was just saying what is appropriate. It would have been a shocking look for him to say, "Nah, my heart's still with the good ol' Swannies" days before he goes out and plays us!

What's more sickening is her portrayal of the Swans as some sort of charity that Hall took advantage of and ditched, which gave Hall a thousand chances before finally giving up, and finally, for having a no dickheads policy (that is the biggest load of tripe I've ever heard). Hall threw some punches on the field. He copped what he deserved from the MRP. That's it. The only reason Hall left the Swans was because he couldn't be trusted to perform. It wasn't an issue of morality, it was an issue of him still being a reliable player on the field (as opposed to a perennially suspended one).

The fact is, Hall has been nothing but a gentleman about the Swans since he has left. He has been frank about feeling let down by Roos on an interpersonal level, and Roos has stuck his hand up and admitted he didn't handle it well. Journos have since taken any statement that Hall has made about being happy with the Bulldogs and painted it out as a backhanded swipe at the Swans, which is plain ridiculous. How would we feel if Rhyce Shaw kept talking about the good old days at Collingwood? If Shane Mumford said he was still a Cat at heart? Or Josh Kennedy wanted to be back at the Hawks?

The entire Hall saga was messy and undesirable for everybody involved (except the Dogs), but it was handled as well as can be by all parties, with minimal fuss. The media are squeezing it for every bit of juice it has got, and it's pathetic.

It's certainly an opinionated piece. I thought the illustration (by Boo Baily ) was amusing:

Yes, I quite like that illustration.