Kinnear Beatson - Thankyou!

[wedge.maverick]

Really?
Andrejs Everitt and Patrick Veszpremi AFL Stats Comparison

Not concerned with stats Ruck'n. The facts are that Dre has won us 2 games, Vez has won jack for the Bulldogs. Dre is a fringe player in a premiership winning team, Vez is a fringe player in a very average team. We're out in front IMO.

As far as the Champion Data list ratings go where did they rate us in 2012? I would think we were nowhere near top. Good luck to Hawthorn rated #1 when we know as supporters that we are even stronger this year as a list and will be coming after the Hawks yet again.

[Bennymno4]

Not a bad player...but I think it's covered. He's a bonus at the moment.

When I think of our midfield strength I think:

Kennedy
Jack
O'Keefe
Hannebery

I don't think Goodes.

Even up forward you'll have Reid, Tippett, the resting ruckman, Goodes.

Goodes presence allows those players space. He is a nightmare match up for opposition coach's. He needs 2-3 different style players depending on where he is on the feild. Oppo players get dragged out of position to cover him.

Not easily replaced or covered

[aardvark]

Goodes presence allows those players space. He is a nightmare match up for opposition coach's. Not easily replaced or covered

Agree.
Just his leadership and direction in the forward line is priceless, especially through the finals. Our forward line would be a far less productive place without him.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

The Hun today has us listed as the third best list in the league. Notes that our forward line is 11th.

Also comments we have least number of top 20 picks. Equal least no 5 game or more players.

Beats on has put us in a great place of having a good enough side to win a premiership now, enough youth comming through. Not many list cloggers

Will these pinheads ever learn? Premierships aren't award to:
1) The the team containing the most top ten draft picks or
2) The team whose players rack up the most statistics.
They are awarded to the best team! And the Swans are the epitome of team.

[ScottH]

Will these pinheads ever learn? Premierships aren't award to:
1) The the team containing the most top ten draft picks or
2) The team whose players rack up the most statistics.
They are awarded to the best team! And the Swans are the epitome of team.

I think Hawthorn won by statistics on the 29/9/2012.
But IIRC the Swans walked away with the cigars.

[Jewels]

I think Hawthorn won by statistics on the 29/9/2012.
But IIRC the Swans walked away with the cigars.

I wonder if the hawks fans take any solace from that?

I think not......

[barry]

The Hun today has us listed as the third best list in the league. Notes that our forward line is 11th.

Also comments we have least number of top 20 picks. Equal least no 5 game or more players.

Beats on has put us in a great place of having a good enough side to win a premiership now, enough youth comming through. Not many list cloggers

Heres a link: http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/haw...-1226536434200

I can only assume our low forward line rating was done before Tippett was got.

[Jewels]

Heres a link: http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/haw...-1226536434200

I can only assume our low forward line rating was done before Tippett was got.

It really is all over the place.
Has Geelongs defence ranked 1, Hawks 2 and us 3. So they are taking Lakes recruitment into account but couldn't possibly be taking Scarletts retirement into account.

[707]

It really is all over the place.
Has Geelongs defence ranked 1, Hawks 2 and us 3. So they are taking Lakes recruitment into account but couldn't possibly be taking Scarletts retirement into account.

Geelong did pick up Rivers and has Scarlett retired or did he in typical Scarlett fashion just fade away!

I note the Bulldogs have a better rated fwd line than us - go figure .......

Surely this should have been done after the PSD to make it credible, or maybe this was done before that but will be updated for the printed version due mid January.

For any avid follower of the AFL, Champion Data's Prospectus is a bible and only $40. An invaluable reference, their analysis is superb, highly recommended.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Not concerned with stats Ruck'n. The facts are that Dre has won us 2 games, Vez has won jack for the Bulldogs. Dre is a fringe player in a premiership winning team, Vez is a fringe player in a very average team. We're out in front IMO.

I appreciate that stats don't deliver a complete picture wedge.maverick, but I've never thought of them as not being facts.

Incidentally "Dre won us 2 games" isn't a fact, it sounds more like a subjective and somewhat hyperbolic opinion.

[ShockOfHair]

I appreciate that stats don't deliver a complete picture wedge.maverick, but I've never thought of them as not being facts.

Incidentally "Dre won us 2 games" isn't a fact, it sounds more like a subjective and somewhat hyperbolic opinion.

Agree, it is purely my subjective view Everitt has given us a better return than Vespa has for the Dogs because he kicked a couple of clutch goals. In truth I only saw Paddy play once this year and for all I know he may have laid a couple of gamesaving tackles.

So I'm just guessing, but the bigger point I'd make is about the limitations of measuring players by raw stats. Champion may be the best at it but goals, marks and tackles are not equal. A six-goal game by Buddy against the Swans back six is a whole lot different than a bag kicked against Port. And how do you measure a player like Nick Smith - surely he gets maximum points if he keeps Milne or Cyril goalless, and half as many for doing the same to a GWS rookie. But does Champion even measure defenders in that way?

The best way to evaluate a player is the way B&Fs do, ie, against their designated role. That's how the rest of us get evaluated in our jobs. That's not possible for a third party like Champion but there's no reason why they can't weight theit figures according to the opposition. Whatever people want to say about the Swans in 2012, we were clearly the best defensive team so it's nonsense for Champion to rank them third.

[ScottH]

Geelong did pick up Rivers and has Scarlett retired or did he in typical Scarlett fashion just fade away!

He retired.

[Nico]

What is it with Rivers. He gets picked up by Geelong and is instantly a star. He has been an average player in a very poor side for a number of years. He has been bagged by Melbourne supporters for a decade.

[msb]

In some sort of small way, it has been a dynasty for us, well since 05 anyway. We missed by 1 point in 06 so had that gone the other way that would be 3 flags in 7 years and havent missed the finals aswell in that time (except in 09), but like earlier posts have said, we would need to win at least another 2 flags in the next 3-4 years to be called a proper 'dynasty' ala brisbane and geelong. These recruiters haven been nothing short of fantastic for the club and I have loved the way they have proved this bull@@@@ theory of needing to bottom out for success as rubbish.

[Big Al]

Re: Kinnear Beatson - Thankyou!

In some sort of small way, it has been a dynasty for us, well since 05 anyway. We missed by 1 point in 06 so had that gone the other way that would be 3 flags in 7 years and havent missed the finals aswell in that time, but like earlier posts have said, we would need to win at least another 2 flags in the next 3-4 years to be called a proper 'dynasty' ala brisbane and geelong. These recruiters haven been nothing short of fantastic for the club and I have loved the way they have proved this bull@@@@ theory of needing to bottom out for success as rubbish.

Absolutely agree with everything here. We did miss the finals in 2009 but 7 finals series in 8 seasons for 2 flags is still quite remarkable.