Perris Joins The Rookie List

[Ludwig]

The way I figure it, our current list total for all categories is now at 45, prior to retirements. If 3 players are NSW category B rookies (Wiki shows Robinson, BJ and Naismith as Cat b), then our combined Primary list and Rookie A list total stands at 42, which is 2 below the AFL max of 44. With the 3 retirements, that gets us down to 39, leaving 5 spots open on between the 2 main lists. Given that we have 4 cat A rookies, that means we now have an effective primary list of 35 with a potential 5 primary spots open

If Rampe is elevated and Perris wants to be primary listed, we are then currently squeezed down to 3 max between the national draft and additional rookie upgrades. I think Jake Lloyd deserves an upgrade ahead of Biggs and X, as I think he is already senior list ready. Definitely our best performer in the reserves. Perhaps, like Perris, he could walk if only offered another rookie contract and would certainly be picked up in the national draft. But I'll leave that the football dept to work out.

So that gets us down to 2 live picks in the national draft.

If the rumours about Armstrong and Walsh being cut are true, then we get another 2 senior spots. They are under contract, but perhaps something could be worked out where they could be moved onto the rookie list, filling the spots vacated by 2 rookie upgrades.

We have a pretty big player list, especially now that we will add Patrick Mitchell as an International rookie. So we potentially could have a list of 48 in all catagories (49 if we want Irishman Daniel Flynn).

If White does go to another club, perhaps we should try for a pick upgrade. Maybe Jesse plus our second and third rounders for a first round pick, since we may only be able to use 2 live picks anyway.

I don't think the club wants to have such a big list. Patrick Mitchell takes the one we had for Alex Starling, so last year we would have a total list size of 46. Maybe that should be the target number.

So a couple of delistings or trades for pick upgrades looks possible at this juncture.

However you cut it, it seems that there will be a lot of pressure of reduce the list one way or another. After doing the numbers it makes sense that Jesse goes to another club. Others may have to move on as well.

[Reggi]

Longmire will probably trade out more than we expect. He has turned over 20%each year so I expect we will let some talent go.

WhIte's career in Sydney lost all hope the minute he got sleeve tatts. Collingwood is the place for him

Sydney needs a poster boy for the academy you can see the colless reaction I think there is no question he will be on the senior list

[southsideswan]

The best out come for the Club is for Perris to come out and agree to go on the rookie list. This will allow the Club to better handle the transition of players. If he does demand a senior listing than we will most likely forgo a player that would more likely play most senior games than Perris next year. If he demands a senior listing than we go for it. Although I think there is some moral obligation for him to have at least one year as rookie if they Club asks that of him. If he does nominate for draft he must remember the best out come for year 1 may be completely direct to years 5 to 15!!

[Reggi]

Longmire will probably trade out more than we expect. He has turned over 20%each year so I expect we will let some talent go.

WhIte's career in Sydney lost all hope the minute he got sleeve tatts. Collingwood is the place for him

Sydney needs a poster boy for the academy you can see the colless reaction I think there is no question he will be on the senior list

[Ludwig]

I wonder if it is possible to give Perris a contract that has one year on the rookie list with a guarantee of upgrade in the second year. This would give a bit of relief to the primary list squeeze and get us through 2014 when we are likely to see a few more retirements and delistings. We will have all those national draft picks from the past 2 years coming out of contract next year.

[Mug Punter]

There isn't really any ambiguity. Perris is not allowed to refuse a spot on the Swans' senior list if it is offered to him. Or at least, he can, but he can't then nominate for the draft with a view to being picked up by someone else. He can go and apply for a plumbing apprenticeship instead, though.

He can also accept an offer from the Swans to go onto the rookie list and bypass the National Draft. However, he is not contractually obliged to.

Whether Perris has any obligation to accept the Swans' rookie list offer is a personal thing for Perris himself - ie it is an ethical question, not a contractual one.

This is so simple, if the Swans rate Perris we draft him!

If we don't then we put him on our rookie list and run the risk of losing him.

Don't see how this is an ethical question at all for the kid (gimme a break) - surely being a full listed player at an AFL club (any club) trumps being a rookie listed player any day.

So, Richard it is simple. You have the guaranteed chance to draft this kid. If the Swans rate him then make it happen, if you don't make ity happen and he gets the opportunity elsewhere we choose not to offer him then we lose him.

This baloney about not having enough list places. Again, if we rate him make it happen. Trade a player to create a spot or delist someone.

This whole Roos thing is such a storm in a teacup. If we lose out on this kid it will be fault/decision of the Sydney Swans football dept not the fault of Paul Roos

I find it hard to see how Paul Roos (potentially) offering a career development opportunity (i.e. a full AFL list place) that we are not prepatred to do is unethical.

The sense of entitlement some on here are displaying in respect of this is unbelievable

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Longmire will probably trade out more than we expect. He has turned over 20%each year so I expect we will let some talent go.

WhIte's career in Sydney lost all hope the minute he got sleeve tatts. Collingwood is the place for him

Sydney needs a poster boy for the academy you can see the colless reaction I think there is no question he will be on the senior list

Agreed!!

Richard just wants to have hi scake and eat it too....

[Ludwig]

This is so simple, if the Swans rate Perris we draft him!

If we don't then we put him on our rookie list and run the risk of losing him.

Don't see how this is an ethical question at all for the kid (gimme a break) - surely being a full listed player at an AFL club (any club) trumps being a rookie listed player any day.

So, Richard it is simple. You have the guaranteed chance to draft this kid. If the Swans rate him then make it happen, if you don't make ity happen and he gets the opportunity elsewhere we choose not to offer him then we lose him.

This baloney about not having enough list places. Again, if we rate him make it happen. Trade a player to create a spot or delist someone.

This whole Roos thing is such a storm in a teacup. If we lose out on this kid it will be fault/decision of the Sydney Swans football dept not the fault of Paul Roos

I find it hard to see how Paul Roos (potentially) offering a career development opportunity (i.e. a full AFL list place) that we are not prepatred to do is unethical.

The sense of entitlement some on here are displaying in respect of this is unbelievable

Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying it's a simple matter and then saying all we have to do is trade out or delist a player? Ir actually does demonstrate that we do have a limitied number of spots and some tough decisions about having to choose between 2 players that we would like to be on our list.

[Mug Punter]

Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying it's a simple matter and then saying all we have to do is trade out or delist a player? Ir actually does demonstrate that we do have a limitied number of spots and some tough decisions about having to choose between 2 players that we would like to be on our list.

Not at all!!

The debate and wrist-slitting here is based on the assumption that we have to be able to elevate Xavier, BJack and Rampe in this draft therefore having limited sopts.

Drafting and list management will always involve some tough decisions - it's a simple question, is he worthy of a spot in our top 42? If he is not then why the hysteria about him going somewhere where he is valued that highly? Shouldn't we instead wish him all the best and be happy that an additional NSW kid is on an AFL List? Shouldn't we be happy that the Academy is working even if we don't rate the kids it produces yet?

If we rate him in the top 42 we just have to make it happen. Don't draft Xavier Richards, trade a fringe player for a late round draft pick and use that pick, do whatwever we need to do

It clearly demonstrates the depth we have in ouir squad but I would think that having had a good look at this kid over a number of years Kinnear Beetson will make the correct call if he is draftable. What is irking Colless so much is that we would have hoped to hide him on our rookie list and have the draft pick..

As I said, if we don't draft him then he is not rated in the top 42 in our club and I fail to see how we can then vilify Roosy if he (allegedly) "steals" our 43rd - 48th best player....

W

[KTigers]

Lloyd Perris was one of the kids pulled out of NSW/ACT State Zone Trials in 2010 and given a "scholarship" with the Swans.
Others were given scholarships with other AFL Clubs.
He was the captain of the zone he was in (Pigeons/Sydney South) and probably the best player. But only just, there were lots of good players in that zone team. They won the bulk of their games in that 2008-2011 period at the SZT, regularly beating the Southern NSW & Riverina area Zone teams. He was given a great opportunity, and he seems to have made something of it so far, playing very well in the latter half of the NEAFL season. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.

[Mug Punter]

Lloyd Perris was one of the kids pulled out of NSW/ACT State Zone Trials in 2010 and given a "scholarship" with the Swans.
Others were given scholarships with other AFL Clubs.
He was the captain of the zone he was in (Pigeons/Sydney South) and probably the best player. But only just, there were lots of good players in that zone team. They won the bulk of their games in that 2008-2011 period at the SZT, regularly beating the Southern NSW & Riverina area Zone teams. He was given a great opportunity, and he seems to have made something of it so far, playing very well in the latter half of the NEAFL season. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.

Agreed

To me the key to the Academy system is that it (hopefully) means that the next Longmire or Carey to come out of our zone is locked in to the Swans.

It's not really about borderline talent such as Perris, though there is real merit in the junior development program separate from Swans draft benefits.

[Triple B]

It's not really about borderline talent such as Perris,.....

Methinks you may be surprised....

[Mug Punter]

Methinks you may be surprised....

Well, if he is that great he's worth a draft pick!!!

My point that is that the academy was designed to give the northern states an incentive to develop their own champions and if there are any standout locals then we can have essentially a geographical priority pick. Perris may be a good prospect but it doesn't sound like he is a first round draft pick.

As I said before, Kinnear Beetson and his list management team need to determine if he is in our top 42. It's the same process as for any other recruit, the difference being that if we decide he is then we have certainty of drafting him

[KTigers]

Academy training has the kids playing more an uncontested style of junior footy these days as opposed to before. They run and spread and their kicking is way better. Some of the games almost look like basketball with little contact though, and that is a bit of a problem for a number of the kids when they run into less technically skilled but more physical opponents in the older age groups. Lloyd Perris comes from the earlier in and under era of junior footy, where a lot of the games resembled rugby style rolling mauls (not unlike the first half of the Swans-Freo prelim I might add) and was certainly whacked around a bit by bigger aggressive opponents. It will probably stand him in good stead if he starts to play against men rather than boys in the AFL eventually.

[Ludwig]

From the Swans club perspective the first purpose of the Swans Academy is to try to bring young NSW talent into the club. As a by product of that process, it will build greater interest in Aussie Rules in the region, which will also benefit the Swans.

There are very few talents that make it through the academy system to become 18 year olds with genuine AFL talent. Perris is clearly one of those, and considering all that goes into getting at best just one quality player out of the system a year, we should take every advantage to make it pay off.

For all that goes into the Academy, the main payoff is that we can get a first crack of these players if we want them. Perris is the last of the scholarship rules players which grant even a greater benefit in that we can add him to our list without using a draft pick. Without this benefit, Perris would likely cost a second round draft pick based on how draft watchers have rated him. It's like getting a second round pick for free. Dayne Beams went for pick 29 and Hanners for pick 30 in the 2008 draft. That could be what exercising our rights to Perris could mean. So I think it's significant.

I congratulate those who think it's an easy decision to determine whether Perris would be in our top 42, and who should drop out in his stead. For me, it seems much harder. I don't think its an easy decision to delist Tony Armstrong, for example, and pay out his 2014 because he's number 43 on my list. I don't know if putting Perris on our primary list to the exclusion of Jake Lloyd or Biggs, will cause them to opt for the national draft. I don't want lose any of them. I don't know if having Perris, Lloyd and Lamb all vying for similar spots is too much of the same thing in one team, and if it is, who to let go of.

I think when you have so few players out of contract, and not necessarily the right ones, and so many rookies doing well, when its far more common that none succeed, and in the same year the best quality talent to come out of the scholarship program reaches drafting age, you are going to have list management problems and some very hard decisions to make.

[Triple B]

Well, if he is that great he's worth a draft pick!!!

My point that is that the academy was designed to give the northern states an incentive to develop their own champions and if there are any standout locals then we can have essentially a geographical priority pick. Perris may be a good prospect but it doesn't sound like he is a first round draft pick.

As I said before, Kinnear Beetson and his list management team need to determine if he is in our top 42. It's the same process as for any other recruit, the difference being that if we decide he is then we have certainty of drafting him

My read of the whole business is not that the Swans think he is not worth a draft pick, far from it, but with the VERY unusual circumstances this year of trying to get at least 2 of Rampe, BJ, X-Man and Biggs onto the senior list the list may be better served to pre-select and rookie list Perris which they can do with his blessing.

Colless obviously believes with Paul Roos sniffing around suggesting to Perris a spot is there on the Melbourne senior list if the Swans don't elect to place him directly on the senior list undermines what plans the Swans may have had in place for him and the club list going forward.

As I said earlier, somewhere, the way the rules are nowadays the rookie list is just an extension of the senior list anyway. I don't see too many rookies being denied a game in the seniors at any club if they are good enough.