our ruckman

**aguy** · 4 May 2014, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Auntie.Gerald

Read more: AFL ruckmen: overrated players, or overrated position?

how does this article fair against our rucks and other talls ?

2 comments so far
An old lecturer of mine (Mark Stewart from RMIT) applied econometric/Moneyball theory to the AFL. One of the more surprising findings of his 2007 research paper was that ruck tap outs have little influence on game outcomes. I've been paying attention since and it's hard to argue against as opposition midfielders just intercept them half the time anyway.
CommenterGilly Location Northcote Date and time May 01, 2014, 10:27PM

Hasn't you Boffin friend heard of the expression "lies, damned lies, and statistics".
Ridiculous article, and categorically wrong.
CommenterMach 1 Location PERTH Date and time May 03, 2014, 10:37AM

Well I guess we will find out next week against hawthorn

**Auntie.Gerald** · 4 May 2014, 09:48 AM

i agree in part - ie clearances are the most important in that if you can intercept a tap or tackle effectively an opposition player with the ball you have nullified the opposition ruckman

BUT

I think it is very important to be able to bash and barge in the ruck contest to minimise the effectiveness of a dominant ruckman like TomD is doing now........

ie lets say that in a game you had a very dominant ruckman playing against a makeshift 196cm forward come ruckman......and the dominant ruckman led to 6 extra effective clearances and of those 3 lead directly to goals...........in tight games this is not acceptable.......if it was a Hawks vs Sydney game you would take those 3 goals every day of the week..........so in conclusion we are still not at the point that we have an LRT or Sam Reid style mobile tall at 196cm playing a Sandilands or Nic Nac or Cox all game long

i have noticed though that a few kids in the juniors at 194cm to 196cm are starting to get up there in the stats that the Draft put on a holy grail !

ie 16 year old kids at 194cm doing 14 in the beep test, 2.9 seconds over 20m, 10mins 30 seconds for 3km.................it will be fascinating to see how these kids are picked in the future and what possie they play as we move into less and less interchanges each season as per what the AFL have outlined !

**churry** · 4 May 2014, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Auntie.Gerald

i have noticed though that a few kids in the juniors at 194cm to 196cm are starting to get up there in the stats that the Draft put on a holy grail !

ie 16 year old kids at 194cm doing 14 in the beep test, 2.9 seconds over 20m, 10mins 30 seconds for 3km.................it will be fascinating to see how these kids are picked in the future and what possie they play as we move into less and less interchanges each season as per what the AFL have outlined !

Blicavs is a good example of this. He seems to spend a lot of time in the wing now.

Sandilands may not hit enough to advantage but the amount of traps he wins is huge for their team and is arguably the dockers' most important player

**Ludwig** · 4 May 2014, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by churry

Blicavs is a good example of this. He seems to spend a lot of time in the wing now.

Sandilands may not hit enough to advantage but the amount of traps he wins is huge for their team and is arguably the dockers' most important player

Leigh Mathews says Sandi is the AFL's most overrated player. Generally speaking, I fall in the Leigh Mathews' camp.

I think that ruckmen have to be judged on what they offer both in the ruck and around the ground and against alternative players that could be in the side in their stead.

It's important to have one ruckman who can contest most of the game. Pyke is a good ruckman, if not necessarily top shelf. He's good at the hitouts and can take a strong mark around the ground and in the forward line. I don't think we have another ruckman atm worthy as playing as a second ruck. Derickx will have to play now that Pyke is injured, but unless he has a massive elevation in form, I wouldn't play him when Pyke returns. The situation that has arisen due to Pyke's injury is the reason that Derickx was recruited.

TD's strong points are:

He seems to have a good arobic capacity, so can ruck most of the game.
He's competitive and gives a good effort.
He's a decent mark above his shoulders.
He's a good kick for goal.

He falls short on most of the rest of what makes a good footballer. But he's got enough to be a backup ruckman suited to replace the number one ruckman.

Maybe Tom is the sort of guy that rises to the occasion when the opportunity presents itself. Well, if he is, and I hope he is because it would be a huge benefit for the team, the test will come next Friday.

**dimelb** · 4 May 2014, 12:38 PM

If you can get a genuinely versatile ruckman - wins taps, good HTA ratio, becomes an extra mid when the ball is down, runs up and down, can "rest" forward and kick goals, go back and spoil/mark, not prone to injury - you've just about won the football lottery. We miss Mummy.

But you can make do with a lower grade ruckman - which we have to do ATM, although there are signs of improvement - if your midfield is strong and sharp enough; fortunately ours is.

I now agree that the position is overrated but I also think it's important to have as good a ruckman as you can reasonably afford (don't break the bank). But the backup MUST be genuinely versatile.

By the way, as a comparatively new recruit to Aust Footy, I did wonder for a while what might be involved in "winning traps", then realised it was a misprint. Isn't it?

**Matt80** · 4 May 2014, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Ludwig

Leigh Mathews says Sandi is the AFL's most overrated player. Generally speaking, I fall in the Leigh Mathews' camp.

I think that ruckmen have to be judged on what they offer both in the ruck and around the ground and against alternative players that could be in the side in their stead.

It's important to have one ruckman who can contest most of the game. Pyke is a good ruckman, if not necessarily top shelf. He's good at the hitouts and can take a strong mark around the ground and in the forward line. I don't think we have another ruckman atm worthy as playing as a second ruck. Derickx will have to play now that Pyke is injured, but unless he has a massive elevation in form, I wouldn't play him when Pyke returns. The situation that has arisen due to Pyke's injury is the reason that Derickx was recruited.

TD's strong points are:

He seems to have a good arobic capacity, so can ruck most of the game.
He's competitive and gives a good effort.
He's a decent mark above his shoulders.
He's a good kick for goal.

He falls short on most of the rest of what makes a good footballer. But he's got enough to be a backup ruckman suited to replace the number one ruckman.

Maybe Tom is the sort of guy that rises to the occasion when the opportunity presents itself. Well, if he is, and I hope he is because it would be a huge benefit for the team, the test will come next Friday.

I think as well as Pyke going down, the high mark in the Goal Square really helped Tom's confidence. After that mark he never fumbled a ball, his ground pick ups and handball were good, and he achieved many hit outs to advantage. He outplayed Trent West who is a premiership ruckman.

Well done!

Next week he comes up against two high quality ruckman and we will get a better read of where he is at.

**MightyBloods** · 5 May 2014, 12:55 PM

[QUOTE=Auntie.Gerald;639358]Read more: AFL ruckmen: overrated players, or overrated position?

how does this article fair against our rucks and other talls ?

2 comments so far
An old lecturer of mine (Mark Stewart from RMIT) applied econometric/Moneyball theory to the AFL. One of the more surprising findings of his 2007 research paper was that ruck tap outs have little influence on game outcomes. I've been paying attention since and it's hard to argue against as opposition midfielders just intercept them half the time anyway.

There are Geelong people still having nightmares over a certain tap from Jason Ball to Nick Davis in a memorable final. I think that tap had an influence on the result.