List changes and trade bait

[Melbourne_Blood]

People speculate , as in you speculate Matt ? I haven't heard it anywhere else. Jetta has had a young family pretty much since he got to Sydney, he seems to have done okay so far without needing to move back home.

[Jewels]

I would never entertain trading Parker. He is too important to the future.

Rohan may well be an All-Australian of Half Back in 2015. I believe we have found his position. Rampe and Rohan will be a taller, faster, better, more powerful, more athletic version of Matner and Shaw. Rohan is a keep.

Mitchell is the more likely trade as he would want 20 senior games a year.

People speculate that Jetta may want to return home to WA as he now has a young family and may need family support. Time will tell.

Nick Smith was reportably talking to Victorian Clubs during the last trade period. This would indicate that he at least thinks about playing football in Victoria. Time will tell.
Malceski is as good as gone in my opinion. He deserves more money which he won't find at the Swans.

A lot of these decisions will be generated by the individual player and not the club.

Nick Smith has always denied any interest in leaving Sydney and please tell me where it was ever written that he actually had talks to any Vic based clubs last year? And what people apart from your good self have speculated that Jetts wants to return to WA? I have a memory of either reading somewhere or seeing Jetts interviewed and that he, his partner and young family have settled very well into Sydney life and seeing as she has given birth twice on the east coast and not felt the need to rush home says to me at least, that all is quite happy in the Sydney based Jetta household.
Just because YOU say something Matt doesn't make it so! How about you start tossing around the idea that Kennedy is feeling family pressure to return to Hawthorn? That has as much credibility as all your other ramblings.

[Steve]

Mitchell is the more likely trade as he would want 20 senior games a year.

I must have missed something, for some strange reason I thought he hadn't played 20 games this year because he hasn't been able to string more than a couple of games together in the NEAFL because of injury.

After he was rushed back too soon from injury to play the first 4 games in the seniors at the start of the year.

[Ampersand]

I must have missed something, for some strange reason I thought he hadn't played 20 games this year because he hasn't been able to string more than a couple of games together in the NEAFL because of injury.

After he was rushed back too soon from injury to play the first 4 games in the seniors at the start of the year.

Stop interjecting this thread with facts. Tom Mitchell is completely delusional, Barry Mitchell is a liar and neither is on board with John Longmire's winning gameplan of a minimum of 80 tackles per game combined with electric pace and the Bondi Beach lifestyle.

[Matt80]

Stop interjecting this thread with facts. Tom Mitchell is completely delusional, Barry Mitchell is a liar and neither is on board with John Longmire's winning gameplan of a minimum of 80 tackles per game combined with electric pace and the Bondi Beach lifestyle.

You people are getting too emotional about this. Let's keep them all until they are 31 and let them go to free agency on the cheap. First round draft picks are useless. There are Adam Goodes's and Luke Parkers that won't stop coming in the second round. All rookies will be Kiran Jacks, Harry Cunningham's and Jake Lloyds.

No other team can pick rookie and second rounders like the Swans. It will happen forever. The Swans system and culture is superior to superior to anything ever seen.

The Lions thought the same thing after the 2004 Grand Final.

Pace is important people. 80 tackles is important. The Eastern Suburbs is a nice place to live.

Will there be a well played thread to Matt80 if two of my predictions come true? If three of them come true I think apologies and a few beers are in order.

[Ampersand]

Who knows, you may turn out to be right. But what I object to is that you constantly set up the false dichotomies based on absolutely no evidence to support your arguments, such as:

1. John Longmire only ever wants to play 3 "slower-paced" inside mids.

FACT: John Longmire played Bird, Kennedy, Parker and Mitchell in the same squad at the beginning of the season before Mitchell was forced out through INJURY. Not dropped as you have previously claimed.

2. Tom Mitchell expects a minimum of 20 senior games (where'd this number come from???) a season. Something which is currently being denied at the Swans.

FACT: Tom Mitchell has a brain and a set of eyes in his head and is well aware that he has been kept out of the side this season by a bad run of injuries.

[Melbournehammer]

If Matt wasn't so condescending and full of his own righteousness and the responses weren't so vituperative there might be an interesting set of discussions here.

Free agency has arrived. It is small currently and Roos and others are trying to shut it down, but the aflpa has the law mostly on its side and it will become more significant.

Our salary cap issues are going to be a new dilemma for us. We really are going to face some issues around player payments.

If you look at North American sports players are frequently traded in the final years of contracts before they become free agents. But sports there really are businesses in the way it hasn't quite moved over here yet. Clubs are privately owned and the franchise itself moves from time to time. We are still basically not at this point because loyalty to player and club is closely tied together still.

What Matt says has merit if you look at how player and list management works overseas. We aren't there yet. But we will be.

As an example - would hawthorn have been made to trade buddy in his final two years of a contract and receive two first round picks or a really seriously good younger kpp ? If you divorce yourself from player loyalty and the like the answer clearly would be yes.

[Conor_Dillon]

Matt I can see where you're coming from with your views on long-term planning, but I very much think the Swans hierarchy are of the opinion that our premiership window is open now and for the next 2-3 seasons.
Trading out guys like Jetta, Smith, Mitchell etc might benefit us in the long run but as far as winning flags in the short term goes it won't.

From now until the likes of Buddy, Tippo, Kiz and Joey turn 30ish is our best chance at being a dominant force. I'd say everyone that matters is quietly confident that with Heeney, Mills, Dunkley etc that our longer term planning is in pretty good hands. Chuck in Jones, Hewett, Lloyd, Cunningham, Parker, B.Jack, Perris etc. then there is no need to panic.

- - - Updated - - -

Number 4 is pretty handy too and will be around for the best part of the next decade.

[Bloods05]

If Matt wasn't so condescending and full of his own righteousness and the responses weren't so vituperative there might be an interesting set of discussions here.

Free agency has arrived. It is small currently and Roos and others are trying to shut it down, but the aflpa has the law mostly on its side and it will become more significant.

Our salary cap issues are going to be a new dilemma for us. We really are going to face some issues around player payments.

If you look at North American sports players are frequently traded in the final years of contracts before they become free agents. But sports there really are businesses in the way it hasn't quite moved over here yet. Clubs are privately owned and the franchise itself moves from time to time. We are still basically not at this point because loyalty to player and club is closely tied together still.

What Matt says has merit if you look at how player and list management works overseas. We aren't there yet. But we will be.

As an example - would hawthorn have been made to trade buddy in his final two years of a contract and receive two first round picks or a really seriously good younger kpp ? If you divorce yourself from player loyalty and the like the answer clearly would be yes.

This is not inevitable. The idea that globalisation is an irresistible juggernaut serves the interests of those who seek to profit from turning everything in the world into one giant business. It doesn't have to be that way. PEOPLE decide these things, not markets. If we don't want footy to go that way (and we don't), we have the power to stop it.

[andy0414]

All options should be considered and judged by "will they improve our list". St Kilda took a short term approach a couple of years ago and now sit on the bottom of the ladder. Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney have been very good at continually bring new players into a strong team and have stayed at the top of the ladder.
You don't need to agree with Matt80 but he should be allowed to have an opinion without being shouted down because you don't share his views.

[Melbournehammer]

This is not inevitable. The idea that globalisation is an irresistible juggernaut serves the interests of those who seek to profit from turning everything in the world into one giant business. It doesn't have to be that way. PEOPLE decide these things, not markets. If we don't want footy to go that way (and we don't), we have the power to stop it.

That is a decent communitarian response. It's not far from my general world view.

But my principal view is to look at matters from the point of view of players and generally speaking I take the view that the restrictions that exist on them which prevent them from being able to play for the club of their choice are wrong (subject to an overall salary cap model which delivers a level of equalization).

If your primary loyalty is to the club you barrack for then free agency a la nrl looks scary. But I take the view that clubs generally show players next to no loyalty. Sure they pay them when they are injured, but that is a contractual obligation.

They treat them as commodities, in a manner similar to matts viewpoint. I think what is good for the goose is good for the gander and that it is inevitable that the aflpa will further push free agency similar to that in the a league and nrl where players are free to go anywhere at the end of their contract

And I don't know whether that will be good or bad for the game, but it will certainly benefit players

[Matt80]

If Matt wasn't so condescending and full of his own righteousness and the responses weren't so vituperative there might be an interesting set of discussions here.

Free agency has arrived. It is small currently and Roos and others are trying to shut it down, but the aflpa has the law mostly on its side and it will become more significant.

Our salary cap issues are going to be a new dilemma for us. We really are going to face some issues around player payments.

If you look at North American sports players are frequently traded in the final years of contracts before they become free agents. But sports there really are businesses in the way it hasn't quite moved over here yet. Clubs are privately owned and the franchise itself moves from time to time. We are still basically not at this point because loyalty to player and club is closely tied together still.

What Matt says has merit if you look at how player and list management works overseas. We aren't there yet. But we will be.

As an example - would hawthorn have been made to trade buddy in his final two years of a contract and receive two first round picks or a really seriously good younger kpp ? If you divorce yourself from player loyalty and the like the answer clearly would be yes.

I was being a little condescending in my previous post because of the strong responses I was getting.

John Longmire is not going to tell you his strategies, but I believe he is as astute as any elite European Football Manager (he reminds me of Sir Alex Ferguson). John has developed a winning system around an optimal midfield mix. At the end of last season we were playing Kennedy, Parker, Bird, ROK and Mitchell as inside midfielders and could not get enough run. At the start of this year we were playing the five inside midfielders and we lost 3 out of the first 4.

ROK and Mitchell (injured) went out of the side after the North Melbourne game and John has found the optimum mix of three paced slower inside midfielders (Kennedy, Bird and Parker) to work with the faster runners (K.Jack, Jetta, Mglynn and Cunningham) and endurance runners Hannebery, McVeigh and Lloyd. This is the system going forward.

If Kennedy, Parker and Bird are fit, available and in form then there is no room for Mitchell. He must fit into that three slower midfield system as he does not have the versatility of a McVeigh to play half forward or halfback. Kennedy, Parker (best overhead mark in the club) and Bird are all more versatile than Mitchell.

I think John will want to push this down to two slow paced inside midfielders in the future as he continues his search for more pace and more brutal tackling pressure.

You will not find this on the Swans website. It?s just my opinion based on reasoned analysis. Mitchell will know this. Heeney could well have the inside attributes, the speed and endurance to become our most complete midfielder. Mitchell is a good inside midfielder but does not have the potential to be as complete as Heeney.

It?s best for Mitchell to find a club who will relish his inside talents more than the Swans can. The Swans can get a good draft pick for him. This can be a win win for all parties.

I don?t subscribe to the Mitchell being injured bandwagon. Mglynn, Shaw, Hannebery have been injured but they all come straight back in.

As for Jetta and Nick Smith I said that time will tell. Jetta and Smith have been mentioned by other posters apart from me. Jetta would be the hardest to replace as there is no other AFL player like him. Zak Jones has the potential to play the Nick Smith role after 2 years of experience and weight training. He has the determination and tenacity to grow into Smiths role. I don?t think they will be ready to go at the end of 2014, but you never know.

Don?t laugh about family arrangements in different states. Having a wife from Queensland (whose family live in Queensland) and a mother who is touring through Europe have left us short of babysitters for our four year old. ROK has spoken about the importance of quality time with your partner. My wife needs more quality one on one time with me and she is not getting it. Maybe these are the challenges that Jetta is working through. His family is from WA and I?m sure he would value increased family support.

The Swans treat list management like a business. Club servants like Bevan and Jarred Moore have been delisted by Longmire while ROK will face that this year.

[troyjones2525]

I was being a little condescending in my previous post because of the strong responses I was getting.

John Longmire is not going to tell you his strategies, but I believe he is as astute as any elite European Football Manager (he reminds me of Sir Alex Ferguson). John has developed a winning system around an optimal midfield mix. At the end of last season we were playing Kennedy, Parker, Bird, ROK and Mitchell as inside midfielders and could not get enough run. At the start of this year we were playing the five inside midfielders and we lost 3 out of the first 4.

ROK and Mitchell (injured) went out of the side after the North Melbourne game and John has found the optimum mix of three paced slower inside midfielders (Kennedy, Bird and Parker) to work with the faster runners (K.Jack, Jetta, Mglynn and Cunningham) and endurance runners Hannebery, McVeigh and Lloyd. This is the system going forward.

If Kennedy, Parker and Bird are fit, available and in form then there is no room for Mitchell. He must fit into that three slower midfield system as he does not have the versatility of a McVeigh to play half forward or halfback. Kennedy, Parker (best overhead mark in the club) and Bird are all more versatile than Mitchell.

I think John will want to push this down to two slow paced inside midfielders in the future as he continues his search for more pace and more brutal tackling pressure.

You will not find this on the Swans website. It?s just my opinion based on reasoned analysis. Mitchell will know this. Heeney could well have the inside attributes, the speed and endurance to become our most complete midfielder. Mitchell is a good inside midfielder but does not have the potential to be as complete as Heeney.

It?s best for Mitchell to find a club who will relish his inside talents more than the Swans can. The Swans can get a good draft pick for him. This can be a win win for all parties.

I don?t subscribe to the Mitchell being injured bandwagon. Mglynn, Shaw, Hannebery have been injured but they all come straight back in.

As for Jetta and Nick Smith I said that time will tell. Jetta and Smith have been mentioned by other posters apart from me. Jetta would be the hardest to replace as there is no other AFL player like him. Zak Jones has the potential to play the Nick Smith role after 2 years of experience and weight training. He has the determination and tenacity to grow into Smiths role. I don?t think they will be ready to go at the end of 2014, but you never know.

Don?t laugh about family arrangements in different states. Having a wife from Queensland (whose family live in Queensland) and a mother who is touring through Europe have left us short of babysitters for our four year old. ROK has spoken about the importance of quality time with your partner. My wife needs more quality one on one time with me and she is not getting it. Maybe these are the challenges that Jetta is working through. His family is from WA and I?m sure he would value increased family support.

The Swans treat list management like a business. Club servants like Bevan and Jarred Moore have been delisted by Longmire while ROK will face that this year.

Say what you like about Matt80 but there is a lot of sense about the style we have gone with this year and where a fit Tom Mitchell fits in! Yes he's had injuries but he's played quite a few NEAFL games this year and the most valid point has been that others have been out with injury but come back in.

If Tom happens to play this week and play a blinder will he hold his place for the rest of the year or have others moved ahead of himin the coaches view,that's the question!

[RogueSwan]

..I don?t subscribe to the Mitchell being injured bandwagon. Mglynn, Shaw, Hannebery have been injured but they all come straight back in...

None of those Swans have injury history that Tom does.
Maybe, just maybe, the Swans are taking their time with Mitchell because they want him to be a long term footballer for the Swans? Maybe taking it easy with him for the rest of the year will stand him in good stead for the rest of his career?
I can't remember (not saying much though) any young footballer that has played for the Swans, and shown that they can be very good at the top level, being let go. Not unless you go back to the Grant and Rocca trades but that was a different era.

[mcs]

Based on the theory of trading players before their contracts run out Nick Smith, Tom Mitchell and Lewis Jetta will need to be traded out at the end of 2014.

This will net the Swans three picks between 10 - 20. We would also get a 2nd round for Malceski as part of free agency compensation.

This will give us:

- Heeney
- 3 First Rounders
- 1 Second Rounder
- Abe Davis

Mitchell, Malceski, Smith and Jetta will be hard to replace in 2015. There will be increased opportunities for guys like Jones, Towers, Brandon Jack and Hewitt. It may take us back to a 4-6th placed side in 2015.

In 2016 and beyond we will be real contenders again as new players settle positions and all the first rounders start trying to break through.

This will also help manage our salary cap as well.

Don't be alarmed, this is only a theory of trading players out who are not out of contract.

Seriously - why would we trade 4 players that are critical to our ability to win the flag in 2015 (ignoring the fact that Malceski might choose to leave of his own choice). We have a squad that is clearly already good enough to challenge for the flag - and most at the club would think with what we know is coming, should be good enough for a few years yet. Would seem bizarre to me that anyone would consider doing that, when we are towards the top of the mountain, not well on the way down the other slope.