What happens next

[Ludwig]

I don't suppose they really have a clue right now what went wrong - other than the obvious they have stated. They will need to spend the next 6 months working out why they didn't show up for the biggest game of the year. If there were clear answers it would be even more exasperating than it already is. What exactly are you expecting he's going to tell you?

I suppose if the players are as clueless about their performance as we fans are, then there really isn't anything to be said.

I've gone into platitude mode as well: I was shocked. I'm over it. I've moved on. Looking forward to next season.


PS: I went over 7 years on RWO without an avatar before choosing one a couple of weeks ago. Out of all the images I've posted on this site, the one I ended up choosing now seems so disturbingly a propos. I'm finding it a bit creepy.

[111431]

What do you mean that McVeigh doesn't stand up in big games? Utter tripe: I do recall he had a fair game in the 2012 GF. Was last week's PF not a big game as was the Freo final. Short memories. Perhaps we take a massive knee jerk reaction and trade him!!!!!!!!!!

Someone else says he goes missing too often. If that's the case I must be watching a different team. His consistency is his great hallmark.

Fully agree - Macca is one player with class and high skills. He and about 17 of his mates had shockers yesterday. One shocking game shouldn't be the grounds for a dismissal or worse

[mcs]

Fully agree - Macca is one player with class and high skills. He and about 17 of his mates had shockers yesterday. One shocking game shouldn't be the grounds for a dismissal or worse

Noone is doubting his ability as a player.

But he failed to stand up yesterday at all when his team badly needed him to. Would for instance kirky have just sat back and let that unfold in front of him? I just wonder about him as a leader - he has never appeared to me to be someone that will take a game by the scruff of the neck when you need him to.

You cant influence a game if you dont get the ball, and he only touched it 11 times yesterday. For a player of his class, even in a badly beaten team, that is deplorable.

He can be as vocal as he wants, but a leader needs to drag a team with him when things are going poorly. Jack tried hard to do so, but mcveigh may as well not have been there as he really did struggle to have any influence.

[111431]

Noone is doubting his ability as a player.

But he failed to stand up yesterday at all when his team badly needed him to. Would Luke Hodge just sit back and watch his team disintegrate like that? Would Kirky have just sat back and let that unfold in front of him? I just wonder about him as a leader.

You cant influence a game if you dont get the ball, and he only touched it 11 times yesterday. For a player of his class, even in a badly beaten team, that is deplorable.

He can be as vocal as he wants, but a leader needs to drag a team with him when things are going poorly. Jack tried hard to do so, but mcveigh may as well not have been there as he really did struggle to have any influence.

Agree re Hodge but I think you are being tough on a guy who has been an important part of the leadership for the last 3-4 yrs - unfortunately we all have bad games - his timing of the bad game was poor - I don't think anyone out there yesterday set out to play poorly they just weren't allowed to gain any momentum. We have to develop the manic pressure which has undone us in the last 2 final's series

[annew]

I suppose if the players are as clueless about their performance as we fans are, then there really isn't anything to be said.

I've gone into platitude mode as well: I was shocked. I'm over it. I've moved on. Looking forward to next season.


PS: I went over 7 years on RWO without an avatar before choosing one a couple of weeks ago. Out of all the images I've posted on this site, the one I ended up choosing now seems so disturbingly a propos. I'm finding it a bit creepy.

+ 1

[liz]

Would for instance kirky have just sat back and let that unfold in front of him?

I was pondering this earlier today. Arguably in 2006 the team saved its worst half of footy for the first half of the granny. But they came out after half-time like men possessed and wrenched back control. Kirk was at the forefront of that.

Having said that, it didn't necessarily have to be McVeigh yesterday. His role in the team and his style is a little different to Kirky's. But it needed to be someone. And was actually no-one.

[ernie koala]

The issue I have with McVeigh's performance, isn't just that he was quiet and ineffectual... All players have those games.

It's the fact he made no obvious attempt to impose himself on the game, he didn't fight for the cause, he just went through the motions....

What the good leaders do, regardless of their own form, regardless of how many touches they've had, they will themselves into the contest...

Hodge is a classic example, Selwood also, Boak is another, and of course ex Swans- P Kelly, B Kirk, S Maxfield, all had this attribute

We needed this kind of on field leadership yesterday. Jack at least tried to give it, but he came up short.

I'm really not interested in hearing hollow talk from the captain after the event, that's worthless. And I doubt it resonates with the players.

[mcs]

The issue I have with McVeigh's performance, isn't just that he was quiet and ineffectual... All players have those games.

It's the fact he made no obvious attempt to impose himself on the game, he didn't fight for the cause, he just went through the motions....

What the good leaders do, regardless of their own form, regardless of how many touches they've had, they will themselves into the contest...

Hodge is a classic example, Selwood also, Boak is another, and of course ex Swans- P Kelly, B Kirk, S Maxfield, all had this attribute

We needed this kind of on field leadership yesterday. Jack at least tried to give it, but he came up short.

I'm really not interested in hearing hollow talk from the captain after the event, that's worthless. And I doubt it resonates with the players.

Ernie that's exactly the point I was trying to get at, said far more eloquently than I could! Great leaders find a way into the game and stem the flow - even if its not necessarily through their own actions. That's why I have doubts about McVeigh. Even though K Jack was down as well, he certainly picked up in the 2nd half I thought and tried to drag some resistance out of his team mates.

[mcs]

I was pondering this earlier today. Arguably in 2006 the team saved its worst half of footy for the first half of the granny. But they came out after half-time like men possessed and wrenched back control. Kirk was at the forefront of that.

Having said that, it didn't necessarily have to be McVeigh yesterday. His role in the team and his style is a little different to Kirky's. But it needed to be someone. And was actually no-one.

It came to my mind at the ground as well during the slaughter. I doubt Kirky would have been able to stop what happened either, but I know he wouldn't have let the rot just continue on. As you said, no one stood up and said 'enough of this'. The few that did (Goodesy I thought tried valiantly, and a few others like Mal tried hard to keep it even) were not in the position to influence the problem. To me, and this is not meant as a slight on either Jack or McVeigh, our leadership is missing that essential ingredient at the moment.

As you said, it didn't need to be McVeigh - just someone. I wonder if a few thought 'we'll get some Buddy magic here in a minute and she'll all be right' instead of taking ownership of the problem and doing something about it. It really was the most disappointing aspect of yesterday - how we just bent over and took it, with little fight or resistance. We have been spoilt by how good our team has been at never giving up, never letting a team truly dominate us - which makes what we saw yesterday so hard to take.

[Matt80]

It's hard to have an impact when you can't get the ball. The Hawks field kicking is beyond elite. You can't do much when a team can hold the ball like the Hawks can. Kirk would have yelled and pointed but he could do nothing to stop the Hawthorn time in possession and kicking skills.

[jono2707]

It's hard to have an impact when you can't get the ball. The Hawks field kicking is beyond elite. You can't do much when a team can hold the ball like the Hawks can. Kirk would have yelled and pointed but he could do nothing to stop the Hawthorn time in possession and kicking skills.

Agreed. The Hawks were fantastic in this regard and too few Swans fans have yet given them the credit for this.

[liz]

Agreed. The Hawks were fantastic in this regard and too few Swans fans have yet given them the credit for this.

Can't agree with that. I think pretty much every Swans fan I have conversed with has marvelled at how good the Hawks were. But we're a pretty good team too. Most of the time. We run hard and we tackle and pressure. That's how we compete with a team with the footskills of the Hawks. We've been competitive with them most times we've played them in recent years. I seem to recall we even beat them at the end of 2012.

If the team had gone down fighting, but just been beaten by a better side on the day, I think most of us would shrug and move on. But it's the fact that the Swans brought nothing of their own strengths to the contest that is galling.

[ernie koala]

It's hard to have an impact when you can't get the ball.

That's the point, this is exactly the time when an great on field leader will find a way to have an impact....when it's hard.

[Matt80]

Can't agree with that. I think pretty much every Swans fan I have conversed with has marvelled at how good the Hawks were. But we're a pretty good team too. Most of the time. We run hard and we tackle and pressure. That's how we compete with a team with the footskills of the Hawks. We've been competitive with them most times we've played them in recent years. I seem to recall we even beat them at the end of 2012.

If the team had gone down fighting, but just been beaten by a better side on the day, I think most of us would shrug and move on. But it's the fact that the Swans brought nothing of their own strengths to the contest that is galling.

The Hawks could apply more defensive pressure than the Swans because they can hold the ball offensively for long periods and conserve their energy. The Swans were chasing showdowns due to the Hawks superior ball use and team strategy. This saps your energy and ability to win the ball back when there is a contested situation. It's as close to unbeatable football as I've ever seen. The Brisbane Lions team of 2001-2003 would have wilted against that Hawks team yesterday. Brown would have been sick of Gibson's runs and left foot kicks, Voss would have run through Mitchell off the ball due to the frustration of not being able to throw his body into contested situations. It's perfect football and there is no way of stopping it if the Hawks are switched on.

If the Swans could hold the ball like the Hawks for extended periods then we may have had more energy and mental strength to win some more contested situations. We can't do what the Hawks did today because we don't have enough players with the ultra elite field kicking skills.

[Matt80]

That's the point, this is exactly the time when an great on field leader will find a way to have an impact....when it's hard.

You can try, but no one can beat the Hawks when they are playing like that. They use the whole width of the ground to pass the ball and they continually hit players on the chest lace out. You only have 18 players and I don't believe our players are as a collective ultra endurance runners. Space will eventually open up if you have the patience, confidence and field kicking skills of the Hawks. It's impossible to stop unless you win most of the contested ball and hold the ball yourself for long periods of time.

The Swans are not designed to hold onto the ball for long periods. They prefer to move the ball quickly, kick long and give the tall forwards one on one opportunities. The Hawks cleaned up the long forward kicks and then worked the ball forward themselves.