2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

[Mug Punter]

I think the Swans have shown admirable restraint in this debate.

Some will call it being weak but I prefer to think of it as keeping our powder dry.

I believe that Eddie and his idiot mates have knocked the Academy System down to the bare minimum to still be an effective development tool (i.e the 20% discount). That is from the Swans perspective given our financial position etc - for the Lions and Suns it may now be uneconomic.

I have said this before and I will say it again. If the AFL downgrade the benefits any further then I expect from our club nothing less than a legal challenge to the legality of the draft.

Finally, the further this goes on the more Gillon looks like the weak knob he is....

[barry]

The lions are living proof of the outcomes of the AFL pursuing vic centric policies.

What a wasted legacy of the 3-peat years

[Meg]

2015 academy discussion thread

Some good questions Meg but a couple of things to consider in response. Firstly, many of the boys you refer to are still in the Academy system. Boys who were recruited when it first started up are only now in the 15s or 16s. Those who were older when it started are obviously no longer in the system and would be the kind of ex-academy kids you're referring to, but that would be a small minority.

Secondly, the Academy reduces numbers as the years go on, particularly at U16s level. Many of the boys would be cut at 15 rather than exiting at 18. What they do from that age on is quite varied, but many continue on at club level and will presumably continue to lift the standard of Sydney football at U19s and then senior level. From what I have seen the standard is appreciably higher now than it was 10 years ago, and the Academy lads (and the training they get) have a lot to do with that.
Thirdly, I have a son in the Academy as some of you know and I can guarantee you that he would not be playing footy without it. He was a rep level soccer player who trialled without ever having played footy cos he loves the game and was accepted on potential. The fact that it was run by the Swans was why he trialled, and why we were happy for him to do so. I'm sure there are many other kids who fall into that category.

Point 1: Pridham's statement was ambiguous in regard to numbers. On the one hand he said that (at June 2014) "the Swans Academy currently trains approximately 550 boys aged between 11 and 19" and then later "Since its inception in 2010, the Swans Academy has engaged around 1000 young athletes in Sydney and its surrounds". You are probably right that the figure of 1000 includes the 550 who were then currently in the Academy. That still leaves 450 who had been but were no longer involved. In any case responses from both current and past Academy participants would be valuable in building a picture of the Academy's influence. A good survey company would easily construct a survey that had some questions for all respondents to answer and a key question that directed the two subsets (current and past participants) off to separate questions.
Point 2: Which is exactly what I would hope a survey would help to demonstrate.
Point 3: Exactly why we need some 'hard' evidence to show this. A well-constructed survey would ask respondents to identify themselves on a voluntary basis and then follow up some respondents who give answers which reflect your son's experience and write-up case studies.
At the moment all we have is the (impressive) Heeney example and that is not necessarily winning the Swans any supporters for the Academy (other than those who already have a deeper understanding of the Academy's objectives).

[707]

The lions are living proof of the outcomes of the AFL pursuing vic centric policies.

What a wasted legacy of the 3-peat years

Exactly, whilst trying to limit the Swans, the AFL is crucifying Brisbane and the GC, there's a whole state currently falling out of love with AFL. The AFL must be really worried about the sunshine state but continue with Academy bashing at the behest of Eddie.

FFS, see the academies for what they really are, an investment in the expanded AFL future. To concentrate on the short term blip that is Heeney & Mills will severely hurt the AFL's BIG plans.

Wait until Aish bails for home at the end of the season, another nail in the Brisbane coffin.

[Kelpie_X]

As we wait for a decision from the AFL on the future draft system to apply to players from Academy (and F/S) backgrounds, I continue to be frustrated at the lack of understanding of the wider objectives of the academy system in the non-traditional states of NSW and Qld.

In June 2014 Andrew Pridham put out an excellent statement (link below) which covered some of these objectives but I feel this has not been followed up with sufficient and frequent background information. While Isaac Heeney's successful AFL debut is a great story, it is also a double-edged sword for the academy system because of the jealousies it has provoked against the Swans for the alleged 'steal' we got in drafting him.

In the June 2014 statement, Pridham said that in the 5 years since its commencement in 2010, the Swans Academy had trained around 1000 boys/young men from Sydney and its surrounds. We know that two of these - Brandon Jack and Isaac Heeney - have played senior AFL games. But what has happened to the rest?

I would expect the Swans to retain contact details for every young man that has gone through the Academy (and I assume these details would include email addresses). It would therefore be easy enough to engage a professional survey firm to conduct an electronic survey to find out what impact the Academy has had for the large number who are not playing at the AFL level.

Why did they apply to take part in the Swans Academy? How much did the fact that the Academy was run by the Swans influence their decision to apply? Would they have applied if the Academy had been run by the AFL and had not been associated with an individual club? Did they play Australian Rules football before they trained in the Academy? How many years did they train in the Academy? Are they still playing? If so, where and at what level? If not, why not (for example, have they chosen another sport instead)? If they are not playing, do they have any other involvement in AR - coaching, administration, umpiring, running the drinks etc.? Has their involvement in the Academy had any wider impact on the support or involvement in AR of their families, friends, schools etc.? What general comments do they have to make about about the time and training they spent in the Academy?

If the answers to questions along these lines told a positive story for the academy system as a way of fostering AR participation and a following of AR in non-traditional areas, then that would be a very strong selling point and serve as a warning not to risk damage by diluting the incentive for the Swans (and the other three clubs) to continue to run the academies. And if the survey results were negative, then the cost/benefit of the resources invested would need to be questioned. And in either case, similar surveys run in future years would assist to build a longer-term picture of the influence of the Academy.

It is of course possible that someone has already done such a survey and not publicised the results. If that were the case however it would suggest the results are not encouraging.

QBE Sydney Swans Academy explained

That's all too practical for the AFL Meg. Much better idea to just "wing it" and try unfounded solutions.

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Plus the weather is much nicer in Melbourne.....

Well that's true

[goswannies]

So he wants everything to be equal? It's never going to be equal because the NSW and Qld clubs are severely disadvantaged by the go home factor. He wasn't making any comments in our favour when players like Grant, Gasper and Rocca were wanting to return to Victoria.

Gasper was from WA

[Nico]

Exactly, whilst trying to limit the Swans, the AFL is crucifying Brisbane and the GC, there's a whole state currently falling out of love with AFL. The AFL must be really worried about the sunshine state but continue with Academy bashing at the behest of Eddie.

FFS, see the academies for what they really are, an investment in the expanded AFL future. To concentrate on the short term blip that is Heeney & Mills will severely hurt the AFL's BIG plans.

Wait until Aish bails for home at the end of the season, another nail in the Brisbane coffin.

Andy D must be really pissed at what is going on here. You can say what you want about him, but he to me, genuinely wanted to see the expansion into the northern states succeed. He certainly pulled his head in after his ill conceived comments in 2005 about our game style. I cannot believe any organisation (Commission) that is supposed to be independent of the clubs, has allowed a few to rule the roost. At least in a small way they may finally be producing the balls to stand up to these fools, by sending the so called new draft rules back to the AFL to be reworked. McGuire will never talk up in defence of Brisbane because it was them that denied his mob of the glory in the early 2000's.

[Doctor]

Exactly, whilst trying to limit the Swans, the AFL is crucifying Brisbane and the GC, there's a whole state currently falling out of love with AFL. The AFL must be really worried about the sunshine state but continue with Academy bashing at the behest of Eddie.

FFS, see the academies for what they really are, an investment in the expanded AFL future. To concentrate on the short term blip that is Heeney & Mills will severely hurt the AFL's BIG plans.

Wait until Aish bails for home at the end of the season, another nail in the Brisbane coffin.

While Eddie reserves his current bashing for Sydney, it's going to be when GWS draft Jacob Hopper (I think that's his first name) that really gets the Melbourne clubs fired up.

[Conor_Dillon]

Matthew Kennedy is another Riverina kid that the Giants are likely to get via the Academy - had 25 and kicked 3 on the weekend for the Rams - and both Emma Quayle and Cal Twomey (via their twitters) believe he will be a first round pick.

There's no way that the Riverina should be included in their zone, the fact that Eddie hasn't brought this up specifically is just proof that his vendetta is purely against the Swans and not about 'equalisation'

[Ludwig]

Eddie McGuire is far and away the most destructive force in football. That last anti-academy, anti-northern clubs bashing is McGuire's B-Sample and it's come back positive. He has now persisted long enough to earn himself a lifetime ban from footy. He's brought Brisbane to it's knees and now he's working on the rest. Sydney will survive, but if McGuire gets his way, the rest of the northern clubs are doomed. And the growth of AFL in general will come to a screeching halt in NSW and QLD, as well as the projected revenue stream from tv and other sources.

The AFL is quick to rid itself of the Josh Bootsma types, and fair enough, but do nothing about the biggest blight on the game in living memory. He's an utter disgrace. The CEOs of the northern clubs and any others of sound mind should join together and demand his removal from any association with the game. It's time to make a stand.

[Nico]

Eddie McGuire is far and away the most destructive force in football. That last anti-academy, anti-northern clubs bashing is McGuire's B-Sample and it's come back positive. He has now persisted long enough to earn himself a lifetime ban from footy. He's brought Brisbane to it's knees and now he's working on the rest. Sydney will survive, but if McGuire gets his way, the rest of the northern clubs are doomed. And the growth of AFL in general will come to a screeching halt in NSW and QLD, as well as the projected revenue stream from tv and other sources.

The AFL is quick to rid itself of the Josh Bootsma types, and fair enough, but do nothing about the biggest blight on the game in living memory. He's an utter disgrace. The CEOs of the northern clubs and any others of sound mind should join together and demand his removal from any association with the game. It's time to make a stand.

Unfortunately while he is on Fox Footy and has a forum to vent his diatribe, then the vitriol will continue. Take away that forum, and see who of his mates in the media will take the baton. No one I am guessing, but as long as he stays the brown nosing will continue.

[Ludwig]

GWS are fighting back against : No Cookies | Fox Sports News, Live Sport, Sports | Fox Sports

At least the last 2 paragraphs of the article highlight the idiocy of his campaign.

Over a decade ago McGuire pushed the case for the removal of the Brisbane Lions player retention allowance.
With the Lions rooted to the bottom of the ladder and seemingly in crisis, remarkably McGuire has this week hailed the removal of the assistance as a success for the competition.

I found the caption under the picture of McVeigh amusing, if not confusing, as I though the academy didn't start until 2010:

Sydney premiership captain Jarrad McVeigh was also an academy selection for the Swans. Photo: Sarah Reed Source: News Corp Australia

Well, coming from News Corp., what do you expect. Shortly to be followed by a chorus of Melbourne footy fans saying "First they got McVeigh, and now Heeney, enough is enough with those academy steals."

[CureTheSane]

How dare they?
What are they thinking?
Standing up for themselves and all!
I'm sure Eddie will be saying "these guys have been around for what? 10 minutes"

I was wrapped to read that the Swans have come out and also stood their ground and described how important the academies are, how much they have invested and how detrimental to the whole competition it would be to lose them.
Surprised that they had a go at Eddie and complained that he was dominating the way AFL was being administered for his clubs own personal gain.

***sarcasm mode turned o@@@@@@@@

[Ludwig]

Adding to the general discussion on equalisation is this interview with Paul Marsh of the AFLPA: http://www.sen.com.au/news/05-15/mar...l-must-address which is definitely worth listening to.

Now, when the conversation turns to something reasonable, like revenue sharing, which is a widely accepted principle in most countries (the graduated income tax being just one example), Crazy Eddie has a contrary opinion, calling it "the stupidest idea he has ever heard." What planet has he been living on? He should listen to himself for a veritable live streaming of stupid ideas.

How much more evidence do we need before it becomes clear that McGuire is unfit to hold any office in the AFL or any AFL club? The term vilification needs to extend beyond the one's that he'a already been caught out for.

[Doctor]

McGuire's threatening to quit if equalisation comes in. I'd suggest that he doesn't let the door hit him on the a**e on the way out.

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GWS are fighting back against : No Cookies | Fox Sports News, Live Sport, Sports | Fox Sports

At least the last 2 paragraphs of the article highlight the idiocy of his campaign.

Neil Cordy has clearly had enough. He editorialises quite well in that piece, despite it being a news report rather than an opinion piece.