Match Day Thread, Round 15 - Brisbane Lions vs. Sydney Swans

[Plugger1300]

Has towers ever cleanly collected the Sherrin.
He took one good mark on the weekend. That was it.

He is making it very hard to watch the game.
I don't want to be unnecessary harsh on him but how can he still be in the side

[mcs]

Alll of these calls for Nank to replace Pyke. From (an admittedly) one game Nank is not as effective at tap rucking at senior level & he's glacial of foot (while he might potentially contest better than Pyke, he might be too slow to actually get to most of the contested situations). He might dominate the NEAFL, but when you're a as big as him, his size does matter at that level. Unfortunately his size is sort of more standard at AFL level. Nank's kicking in that game was really just ok. I realise it was just one game, but that's all I've got to go on. If Pykes body isn't shot (& only the medicos can assess this, not anyone sitting in the stands or watching him on TV) the, for me, he's our best option still. Problem is, he had his best couple of years just before we let Mummy go (perhaps allowing us to let Mummy go at the time). Raised our hopes (no fault of his) but - like a Telstra share price of Dec 1999 - he's probably peaked & unlikely to reach those highs again.

I agree with this.

Pyke is clearly not 100%, but we are stuck in a really bad place. If we somehow get through the next month and be in a position to rest players over the last 3 rounds (i.e. top 4 all but sewn up), surely Pyke will be the first to get time off.

I can't see how we could carry both Tippett and Nankervis in the same side - just on the sheer basis of how slow they are around the ground. I like Nankervis and think he can make it as an old style ff/second ruckman, but gee its asking a lot of someone with 1 game experience in the AFL to come in at this stage, against teams like the Hawks and West Coast.

[Melbournehammer]

I agree with this.

Pyke is clearly not 100%, but we are stuck in a really bad place. If we somehow get through the next month and be in a position to rest players over the last 3 rounds (i.e. top 4 all but sewn up), surely Pyke will be the first to get time off.

I can't see how we could carry both Tippett and Nankervis in the same side - just on the sheer basis of how slow they are around the ground. I like Nankervis and think he can make it as an old style ff/second ruckman, but gee its asking a lot of someone with 1 game experience in the AFL to come in at this stage, against teams like the Hawks and West Coast.

I just cant see how nankervis plays. He was like treacle after the first half.

I know Hale and McEvoy arent exactly grease lightning but with our structural issues and slowness forward of centre, especially without rohan, I just cant see how you play nankervis against lake and/or gibson and expect anything other than lake going forward on him and kicking goals.

assuming lake plays on buddy it would be spangher on nankervis wouldn't it ?

[Ampersand]

Need I remind people that last time we played the Hawks we were decimated in the clearances 59-34, Pyke got 6 possessions, 0 goals, 0 marks and 1 tackle.

He is now in arguably far worse form.

If Nankervis can't beat those numbers with his eyes closed I'll eat my hat. For the love of god, Longmire, please play him and sub him half way through the third quarter (as was actually the plan before Rohan did a hammy) if there are concerns about his fitness.

[dimelb]

It seems to my inexpert eye that Mike is still not close to 100%, which would be a good reason not to play him for another match or two if it will help bring him up to speed. This would mean that we could play Nankervis and Tippett in alternating roles and if necessary sub him off as Ampersand points out. Sam is going well down front, Buddy will make his presence felt and even if we drop out of the top 4, that is a risk I'd be prepared to take if it means we will arrive at September in batter shape.

[Plugger46]

Only got to see the last quarter ... just a win ... at least there seem to be more realists talking tonight ... perhaps the "a win is a win" crowd will come out later & somehow try to turn rubbish into gold ... disposal / handling errors every few second ... was so glad to see Kennedy 33 possessions at 3/4 time ... evidently got another 7 in the last quarter but honestly not one of them was worth a crumpet.

There are three (perhaps four) ahead of the pack and I don't think any of them are great teams. Hawthorn are assessed as a great team because of past deeds but they've been just as up and down as the other top sides.

Very even comp. We were arguably playing our best footy at this time last year and didn't win the thing. Hopefully we'll come good at the right time.

[mcs]

It seems to my inexpert eye that Mike is still not close to 100%, which would be a good reason not to play him for another match or two if it will help bring him up to speed. This would mean that we could play Nankervis and Tippett in alternating roles and if necessary sub him off as Ampersand points out. Sam is going well down front, Buddy will make his presence felt and even if we drop out of the top 4, that is a risk I'd be prepared to take if it means we will arrive at September in batter shape.

Despite the poor form of Pyke, it would be a massive risk to take given we play the Hawks and then West Coast over the next two weeks. It really would be leaving Nankervis highly exposed, especially at Subiaco against Nic Nat & Co. Its such a shame Naismith is not fit - despite his inconspicuous debut last year, he really seemed to be coming along well until injury has again struck him down.

As for winning a flag from outside of the 4 - forget it. Especially this year, given that would mean more than likely 2 WA teams being in that top 4. It would be like 2013 all over again - maybe finding a way into a Prelim but with stuff all chance of winning the whole thing.

[Ampersand]

Again, mcs, what exactly are we "risking"? Getting smashed in clearances? 6 valuable possessions? No goals? No marks?

It's already happening with Pyke.

[mcs]

Again, mcs, what exactly are we "risking"? Getting smashed in clearances? 6 valuable possessions? No goals? No marks?

It's already happening with Pyke.

Each to their own, but I don't consider games against the Hawks and West Coast as the time to be experimenting in the ruck, despite the clear issues with Pyke. I think there are substantial risks going in with a forward/ruckman with a body made of glass and an unproven player with a grand total of 1 games experience, where despite making a few nice impressions early on, was pretty much invisible for the whole second half, and clearly hasn't got the tank yet for the AFL. I know there were plans to Sub him out in the 3rd before Rohan went down - but can we really afford a similar strategy against Hawthorn or West Coast, leaving Tippett exposed in the ruck with only Reid to support him for possibly almost half the game.

Of course a similar thing may happen with Pyke as well (i.e. needing to sub early), and we clearly have issues either way. But I think its a case of going with the devil you know, then the devil you don't.

And for all your waffling about clearances, in particular centre clearances, stats aren't all, as this article showed the other week: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-0...e-square-stars . Clearances are no doubt important, especially when they are clean ones, but they aren't the be all and end all of football.

[Plugger46]

Why would anyone think Nankervis has the tank to be the number 1 ruck? From what I understand he's been playing the second ruck/forward role in the reserves. The same role as Tippett which is why he replaced him when he was suspended.

[mcs]

Why would anyone think Nankervis has the tank to be the number 1 ruck? From what I understand he's been playing the second ruck/forward role in the reserves. The same role as Tippett which is why he replaced him when he was suspended.

I assume plugger, what ampersand and others are suggesting is Tippett to play No 1 ruck, with Nankervis playing Tippett's role up forward.

[Ampersand]

They should split ruck duties and rest at FF.

Not sure what you were trying to prove through that linked article, mcs, other than being the worst in the league at hitouts to advantage - another massive cross against Pyke's lack of contribution.

[Conor_Dillon]

If a rest is going to help freshen up Pyke and help him find form then it has to happen now.

It's a win/win, Nank gets invaluable experience should we need him later in the year and Mike has a chance to rejuvenate the old body.

Anyway Tip has looked great as our number 1 ruck and Nank should offer more as a forward than Mike.

Barring injury to another player, Nank is subbed out midway through quarter 3 (providing us with more run) and if Tip needs a chopout for a few minutes then Reid can step up.

Speaking of Reid, the confidence of being more of a key forward whilst Tip is rucking could do him the world of good. That is assuming that Richards is back this week.

[mcs]

They should split ruck duties and rest at FF.

Not sure what you were trying to prove through that linked article, mcs, other than being the worst in the league at hitouts to advantage - another massive cross against Pyke's lack of contribution.

What it clearly shows that, with the exception of Freo and to some extent West Coast, is that there appears to be very little correlation between overall performance (i.e. ladder performance) and centre clearance stats - I'm sure NeilFWS could do some proper statistical analysis of it If he had time. Of course it doesn't include total clearances around the ground, which would be useful to have, and may tell a different story.

As for your cross against Pyke for hitouts to advantage - what is interesting is out of the top 4 teams, the best 2 teams in the league for it (freo and Wet Coke) and the two worst (Sydney and Hawks) currently make up the top 4. Make of that what you will.

[dejavoodoo44]

Another filthy knee from Sam Mitchell, into Fyfes knee/ thigh...It was as calculated as you'll see...

Hope he gets sanctioned, he's a dirty player and deserves weeks.

Yes, and I do think that Mitchell tends to epitomise the modern Hawthorn side, in that they seem to constantly experiment to see what new illegality they can get away with and if they get away it, they will keep on repeating it. Hopefully, this week the Tribunal won't give him the benefit of the doubt and they give him a week or two. Otherwise, without a strong message being sent, it is quite easy to envisage a situation where in an important final, a star player of Hawthorn's opponent will be limping off early, because of another 'accidental' knee.