And when I saw his face, now I am not a believer!

[WauchopeAnalyst]

After reading several articles and some interviews/post match with Longmire, now I just don't believe that he, and his crew, can improve enough this year and if we play the same game style for the next two more years. Longmire basically blamed the players for all evils in the team. Paraphasing, "not enough effort, need to work harder, making choices with effort".

One thing I do believe in and thats the players. From the time Roos take the job through to Longmire, the players have pretty much busted themselves for about 12 years. To 'call out' the players, outside the club, at this time shows weakness of the coach and the delineating of the coaches, leadership and players from responsibility. Just not this game but big issues in many games.

The immunity of allowing Rhyce and others to play poorly most weeks and then deny several young players opportunities, and a negative structure or game style, may be creating a schasm between players and coaches and a very strong culture is showing cracks of discipline.

2 flags, 2 GFs and plenty of finals with good footy nearly every year in the last 12 years, and the 1996 GF, also has made me very happy since about 1983 and even after the thin years, except for the 'Edelstein years' I have enjoyed footy until now.

The finals years of Eade appears to be very similar to this year and the 'bloods' culture is struggling.

To improve this team this year, I have no idea, just kept playing their best every week. No more suspensions and injuries and can see them nearly equal of all but Hawthorn. If West Coast smoked us this weekend, it further proves what is happening, what else to blame. If we win that proves that I must be wrong and I will apologise to every poster who is a 'believer'. Every team has the same problems, our club built our list, we have to play with what you have.

Next year. Hiring Brendan Bolton would improve the coaching team, skill drills, attacking structures and provide new ideas. Brett Kirk can come back and also show what Freo do and reinvigorate the ' bloods'.

A good preseason with positive coaching will make a big change.

Luke Parker and Dan Hannebery become co-captains and Jared and Keiran can go back and get back their footy.

If nothing changes I will still be happy from the previous years and then I will be waiting for the change!????

And then I saw his face and I am not a believer............. I couldn't leave them, (Swans) if I tried ..... the Monkees????

PS: I will provide some startling stats about our attacking since 2011 in the morning

[tasmania60]

Really interesting idea, i believe your right with the players. I think Parker should be made sole captain ,reminds me so much of Kelly . Game plan looks tired ,do you really think Kirk would come home ?

[Plugger1300]

Lol

Brendan Bolton? really?
I don't have too many issues with Horse. I do believe his match day coaching can struggle.
Why do you think 'borrowing' ideas/coaches from Hawthorn and Freo will work. We have been one of dominant teams of the last 20 years.

We have some issues at the moment but it is generally based around the fact that we have players who are out of form or playing with injuries.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water

[111431]

After reading several articles and some interviews/post match with Longmire, now I just don't believe that he, and his crew, can improve enough this year and if we play the same game style for the next two more years. Longmire basically blamed the players for all evils in the team. Paraphasing, "not enough effort, need to work harder, making choices with effort".

One thing I do believe in and thats the players. From the time Roos take the job through to Longmire, the players have pretty much busted themselves for about 12 years. To 'call out' the players, outside the club, at this time shows weakness of the coach and the delineating of the coaches, leadership and players from responsibility. Just not this game but big issues in many games.

The immunity of allowing Rhyce and others to play poorly most weeks and then deny several young players opportunities, and a negative structure or game style, may be creating a schasm between players and coaches and a very strong culture is showing cracks of discipline.

2 flags, 2 GFs and plenty of finals with good footy nearly every year in the last 12 years, and the 1996 GF, also has made me very happy since about 1983 and even after the thin years, except for the 'Edelstein years' I have enjoyed footy until now.

The finals years of Eade appears to be very similar to this year and the 'bloods' culture is struggling.

To improve this team this year, I have no idea, just kept playing their best every week. No more suspensions and injuries and can see them nearly equal of all but Hawthorn. If West Coast smoked us this weekend, it further proves what is happening, what else to blame. If we win that proves that I must be wrong and I will apologise to every poster who is a 'believer'. Every team has the same problems, our club built our list, we have to play with what you have.

Next year. Hiring Brendan Bolton would improve the coaching team, skill drills, attacking structures and provide new ideas. Brett Kirk can come back and also show what Freo do and reinvigorate the ' bloods'.

A good preseason with positive coaching will make a big change.

Luke Parker and Dan Hannebery become co-captains and Jared and Keiran can go back and get back their footy.

If nothing changes I will still be happy from the previous years and then I will be waiting for the change!??

And then I saw his face and I am not a believer............. I couldn't leave them, (Swans) if I tried ..... the Monkees??

PS: I will provide some startling stats about our attacking since 2011 in the morning

very good analysis and some good suggestions - only hope someone influential reads them

- - - Updated - - -

After reading several articles and some interviews/post match with Longmire, now I just don't believe that he, and his crew, can improve enough this year and if we play the same game style for the next two more years. Longmire basically blamed the players for all evils in the team. Paraphasing, "not enough effort, need to work harder, making choices with effort".

One thing I do believe in and thats the players. From the time Roos take the job through to Longmire, the players have pretty much busted themselves for about 12 years. To 'call out' the players, outside the club, at this time shows weakness of the coach and the delineating of the coaches, leadership and players from responsibility. Just not this game but big issues in many games.

The immunity of allowing Rhyce and others to play poorly most weeks and then deny several young players opportunities, and a negative structure or game style, may be creating a schasm between players and coaches and a very strong culture is showing cracks of discipline.

2 flags, 2 GFs and plenty of finals with good footy nearly every year in the last 12 years, and the 1996 GF, also has made me very happy since about 1983 and even after the thin years, except for the 'Edelstein years' I have enjoyed footy until now.

The finals years of Eade appears to be very similar to this year and the 'bloods' culture is struggling.

To improve this team this year, I have no idea, just kept playing their best every week. No more suspensions and injuries and can see them nearly equal of all but Hawthorn. If West Coast smoked us this weekend, it further proves what is happening, what else to blame. If we win that proves that I must be wrong and I will apologise to every poster who is a 'believer'. Every team has the same problems, our club built our list, we have to play with what you have.

Next year. Hiring Brendan Bolton would improve the coaching team, skill drills, attacking structures and provide new ideas. Brett Kirk can come back and also show what Freo do and reinvigorate the ' bloods'.

A good preseason with positive coaching will make a big change.

Luke Parker and Dan Hannebery become co-captains and Jared and Keiran can go back and get back their footy.

If nothing changes I will still be happy from the previous years and then I will be waiting for the change!????

And then I saw his face and I am not a believer............. I couldn't leave them, (Swans) if I tried ..... the Monkees????

PS: I will provide some startling stats about our attacking since 2011 in the morning

very good analysis and some good suggestions - only hope someone influential reads them

[mcs]

I think questions have to be raised about our midfield and forwards coaches. There seems to be no forwards structure at all (where are the small forwards!), and our midfield just isn't going anywhere near as well as it should, considering the high quality players we have in it.

The real question I have is what precisely is our game plan at the moment? When you look back over the last couple of decades, invariably it is pretty easy to see the hallmarks of the Swans teams across that time - in particular the Premiership teams. Since the arrival of Tippett and Buddy though, and the disposal of slingshot footy (Which I still think can work - in particular against the Hawks), its hard to see what our tactics amount to apart from 'bomb it and hope'.

- - - Updated - - -

I think questions have to be raised about our midfield and forwards coaches. There seems to be no forwards structure at all (where are the small forwards!), and our midfield just isn't going anywhere near as well as it should, considering the high quality players we have in it.

The real question I have is what precisely is our game plan at the moment? When you look back over the last couple of decades, invariably it is pretty easy to see the hallmarks of the Swans teams across that time - in particular the Premiership teams. Since the arrival of Tippett and Buddy though, and the disposal of slingshot footy (Which I still think can work - in particular against the Hawks), its hard to see what our tactics amount to apart from 'bomb it and hope'.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Sorry for the late post. Our attack will eventually kill us as we are going back to 2011 levels.

Swans scoring ability.jpg


All teams study every other teams but Sydney are still trying to do the same thing for since 2012. The number of times where we kick to our fowards with 1, 2 or 3 extra defenders is frightening. Most teams know the slighshot and close it with extra defenders.

I can't see how we are going to kick 86 points against West Coast or enough to beat them. Without Ted can we stop WC from scoring their 107 points or low enough to beat them. That would be a great result for us, and I can only suggest that the players have to win the game, not the game plan and structure.

[mcs]

Sorry for the late post. Our attack will eventually kill us as we are going back to 2011 levels.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1338[/ATTACH]


All teams study every other teams but Sydney are still trying to do the same thing for since 2012. The number of times where we kick to our fowards with 1, 2 or 3 extra defenders is frightening. Most teams know the slighshot and close it with extra defenders.

I can't see how we are going to kick 86 points against West Coast or enough to beat them. Without Ted can we stop WC from scoring their 107 points or low enough to beat them. That would be a great result for us, and I can only suggest that the players have to win the game, not the game plan and structure.

We aren't even playing a true 2012 slingshot style anyway - as the gut running from the midfield, to create extra numbers up forward, is pretty much absent this year. I still think that approach could work in 2015 - albeit maybe not as well as it did in 2012.

Interesting stats though, really shows how it has fallen away since 2012.

[magic.merkin]

structures and midfield coach have been woeful in reacting and setting up.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I think the forward flankers and pockets fold back into the back 50 and when we win the ball no immediate targets available. Most teams are sitting on Jetta and thereby no flow. Against Tigers no man on Jetta in the first half. After that Grigg ran with him and had no input. The tigers did lift but you need to have several options and we don't. Kicking to Tippett or Franklin with Rance, Chaplin and Grimes on top of them and sometimes Batchelor also. How many 4 on 1s to you win.

[Jimitron5000]

Have we lost any assistant coaches from 2012? From memory Leigh Tudor has departed but I can't think of any more.
So far as I know the assistant coaches are responsible for the set-ups and structures in the different parts of the field. Maybe this has played some role?

[bloodspirit]

I am generally happy with selection and trust our match committee to select well. I am very hesitant to criticise Horse because he has the runs on the board. He guided us to the flag in 2012. He has had us playing finals every year. He has been voted AFL Coach of the Year by his peers twice now in the past few years (including last year) - which I think is particularly telling.

That said, clearly something is going wrong because I don't think we are performing to potential. In part, I think our list management deserves closer scrutiny. Why don't we have better small forward options to seize the crumbs at the feet of Buddy and Tippett? James Rose looks very promising in the reserves but Jack Lonie was available at that pick last year - would he have been a better option? Why haven't we found and/or developed the next generation of tall defenders yet? Have the several massive contracts unbalanced the team? I am not a critic of the Buddy recruitment but I do believe it wasn't based solely or primarily on on-field considerations. It has been a boon for our membership but the costs have been massive - the players we have lost so far and possibly will still lose due to the salary cap space he is taking up, to say nothing of loss of COLA and trading restrictions.

Beyond that are our structures, planning, tactial/strategic development, preparation of players etc up to scratch? I don't feel qualified or informed enough to judge but given the performances we have been putting up (as well as the results) you have to wonder. If they are letting us down, then that is Horse's responsibility. I also agree that his stock answer seems to be the players need to work harder and get better at everything. He doesn't normally take public responsibility for our poor performances. Who knows what happens behind closed doors? I think he is the consummate expert at giving nothing away to the media (and, sadly, supporters). Some fresh blood in the coaching ranks might be a good idea. Would love to see Kirky back at the club sooner or later - but not necessarily yet if he is better off learning more elsewhere first.

Another area where I would like to see improvement is skills (especially kicking and good ball use). This is the domain of the assistant coaches, players and, ultimately, Horse.

All of that said, I guess I am a believer and I think you have to give credit where credit is due. The club has done a hell of a lot right in a lot of areas for a long time and still does. The players overall are developed and prepared very well although we do appear to have a game style that is especially dependent on a very high (possibly unsustainable?) level of effort and concentration. Selection is good and possibly with some recent exceptions list management has been excellent too. Not every recruitment choice can be a winner and I wouldn't fault them just because not every decision is vindicated. Lastly, there are 17 other teams crammed with talent doing their darndest to win as well and it's not easy to stay on top. We shouldn't sneeze at top 4 year after year even though of course we want more flags. What about poor old Richmond/St Kilda/Melbourne/Bulldogs/Norf/WC/Adelaide etc etc (pretty much everyone except Geelong and Hawthorn)?? They would love to have a record like ours this year, let alone over the past decade.

One thing I really like about our list is the age spread. Many of our best players are still young and very much in the prime of their careers with hopefully years of high output in front of them (Joey, Hanners, Parker in the midfield plus the top end talent coming through - Heeney, Mills). If top-heavy nature of the list (big contracts to Buddy, Tippett, Hanners etc etc) doesn't spoil things too much and we cope with our defensive KPP regeneration then we should be better placed than Hawthorn in three years. By then I would think the Giants will be a force to be reckoned with and perhaps we'll be living in their shadow.

As for captaincy, I agree Parker has captaincy material written all over him but I don't think there is any need to rush to burden him with that yet. He is still young and needs more time to develop his own game. The club is blessed to have excellent leaders and senior players and although it would be great to see them stand up a little more on field, I still think we are very well served by them.

[undy]

I am generally happy with selection and trust our match committee to select well. I am very hesitant to criticise Horse because he has the runs on the board. He guided us to the flag in 2012. He has had us playing finals every year. He has been voted AFL Coach of the Year by his peers twice now in the past few years (including last year) - which I think is particularly telling.

That said, clearly something is going wrong because I don't think we are performing to potential. In part, I think our list management deserves closer scrutiny. Why don't we have better small forward options to seize the crumbs at the feet of Buddy and Tippett? James Rose looks very promising in the reserves but Jack Lonie was available at that pick last year - would he have been a better option? Why haven't we found and/or developed the next generation of tall defenders yet? Have the several massive contracts unbalanced the team? I am not a critic of the Buddy recruitment but I do believe it wasn't based solely or primarily on on-field considerations. It has been a boon for our membership but the costs have been massive - the players we have lost so far and possibly will still lose due to the salary cap space he is taking up, to say nothing of loss of COLA and trading restrictions.

Beyond that are our structures, planning, tactial/strategic development, preparation of players etc up to scratch? I don't feel qualified or informed enough to judge but given the performances we have been putting up (as well as the results) you have to wonder. If they are letting us down, then that is Horse's responsibility. I also agree that his stock answer seems to be the players need to work harder and get better at everything. He doesn't normally take public responsibility for our poor performances. Who knows what happens behind closed doors? I think he is the consummate expert at giving nothing away to the media (and, sadly, supporters). Some fresh blood in the coaching ranks might be a good idea. Would love to see Kirky back at the club sooner or later - but not necessarily yet if he is better off learning more elsewhere first.

Another area where I would like to see improvement is skills (especially kicking and good ball use). This is the domain of the assistant coaches, players and, ultimately, Horse.

All of that said, I guess I am a believer and I think you have to give credit where credit is due. The club has done a hell of a lot right in a lot of areas for a long time and still does. The players overall are developed and prepared very well although we do appear to have a game style that is especially dependent on a very high (possibly unsustainable?) level of effort and concentration. Selection is good and possibly with some recent exceptions list management has been excellent too. Not every recruitment choice can be a winner and I wouldn't fault them just because not every decision is vindicated. Lastly, there are 17 other teams crammed with talent doing their darndest to win as well and it's not easy to stay on top. We shouldn't sneeze at top 4 year after year even though of course we want more flags. What about poor old Richmond/St Kilda/Melbourne/Bulldogs/Norf/WC/Adelaide etc etc (pretty much everyone except Geelong and Hawthorn)?? They would love to have a record like ours this year, let alone over the past decade.

One thing I really like about our list is the age spread. Many of our best players are still young and very much in the prime of their careers with hopefully years of high output in front of them (Joey, Hanners, Parker in the midfield plus the top end talent coming through - Heeney, Mills). If top-heavy nature of the list (big contracts to Buddy, Tippett, Hanners etc etc) doesn't spoil things too much and we cope with our defensive KPP regeneration then we should be better placed than Hawthorn in three years. By then I would think the Giants will be a force to be reckoned with and perhaps we'll be living in their shadow.

As for captaincy, I agree Parker has captaincy material written all over him but I don't think there is any need to rush to burden him with that yet. He is still young and needs more time to develop his own game. The club is blessed to have excellent leaders and senior players and although it would be great to see them stand up a little more on field, I still think we are very well served by them.

Wrt crumbing forwards it would be hard to predict that McGlynn, Rohan and Heeney would all be injured at the same time. BJ could have a role there if he gets back the confidence and accuracy he had early.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Have we lost any assistant coaches from 2012? From memory Leigh Tudor has departed but I can't think of any more.
So far as I know the assistant coaches are responsible for the set-ups and structures in the different parts of the field. Maybe this has played some role?

A big lose was George Stone going with Roosy to Melbourne. A great development coach.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

The coach decided to blame the players publicly in strong terms. As we both agree we are very good as keeping things internally but that was way over the top. I thought the effort was fair to good.

Poor decisions and disposals is a totally different argument for players and structures for coaches.

[Industrial Fan]

I am generally happy with selection and trust our match committee to select well. I am very hesitant to criticise Horse because he has the runs on the board. He guided us to the flag in 2012. He has had us playing finals every year. He has been voted AFL Coach of the Year by his peers twice now in the past few years (including last year) - which I think is particularly telling.

That said, clearly something is going wrong because I don't think we are performing to potential. In part, I think our list management deserves closer scrutiny. Why don't we have better small forward options to seize the crumbs at the feet of Buddy and Tippett? James Rose looks very promising in the reserves but Jack Lonie was available at that pick last year - would he have been a better option? Why haven't we found and/or developed the next generation of tall defenders yet? Have the several massive contracts unbalanced the team? I am not a critic of the Buddy recruitment but I do believe it wasn't based solely or primarily on on-field considerations. It has been a boon for our membership but the costs have been massive - the players we have lost so far and possibly will still lose due to the salary cap space he is taking up, to say nothing of loss of COLA and trading restrictions.

Beyond that are our structures, planning, tactial/strategic development, preparation of players etc up to scratch? I don't feel qualified or informed enough to judge but given the performances we have been putting up (as well as the results) you have to wonder. If they are letting us down, then that is Horse's responsibility. I also agree that his stock answer seems to be the players need to work harder and get better at everything. He doesn't normally take public responsibility for our poor performances. Who knows what happens behind closed doors? I think he is the consummate expert at giving nothing away to the media (and, sadly, supporters). Some fresh blood in the coaching ranks might be a good idea. Would love to see Kirky back at the club sooner or later - but not necessarily yet if he is better off learning more elsewhere first.

Another area where I would like to see improvement is skills (especially kicking and good ball use). This is the domain of the assistant coaches, players and, ultimately, Horse.

All of that said, I guess I am a believer and I think you have to give credit where credit is due. The club has done a hell of a lot right in a lot of areas for a long time and still does. The players overall are developed and prepared very well although we do appear to have a game style that is especially dependent on a very high (possibly unsustainable?) level of effort and concentration. Selection is good and possibly with some recent exceptions list management has been excellent too. Not every recruitment choice can be a winner and I wouldn't fault them just because not every decision is vindicated. Lastly, there are 17 other teams crammed with talent doing their darndest to win as well and it's not easy to stay on top. We shouldn't sneeze at top 4 year after year even though of course we want more flags. What about poor old Richmond/St Kilda/Melbourne/Bulldogs/Norf/WC/Adelaide etc etc (pretty much everyone except Geelong and Hawthorn)?? They would love to have a record like ours this year, let alone over the past decade.

One thing I really like about our list is the age spread. Many of our best players are still young and very much in the prime of their careers with hopefully years of high output in front of them (Joey, Hanners, Parker in the midfield plus the top end talent coming through - Heeney, Mills). If top-heavy nature of the list (big contracts to Buddy, Tippett, Hanners etc etc) doesn't spoil things too much and we cope with our defensive KPP regeneration then we should be better placed than Hawthorn in three years. By then I would think the Giants will be a force to be reckoned with and perhaps we'll be living in their shadow.

As for captaincy, I agree Parker has captaincy material written all over him but I don't think there is any need to rush to burden him with that yet. He is still young and needs more time to develop his own game. The club is blessed to have excellent leaders and senior players and although it would be great to see them stand up a little more on field, I still think we are very well served by them.

Good post. Really good summary imo.