They are at it again. GWS under the pump

[Mug Punter]

Absolutely agree. The GWS academy is not adding to the talent pool in the northern states in the same way as the other three academies. As such it is vulnerable to criticism.

I agree

And I agree with Eddie re the Riverina but he has no right to criticise their list or their shrewd list management.

The whole idea of the academies is to increase the player pool from development areas. The Riverina is an established AFL nursery so it a recruitment zone for GWS and hence open to criticism. Especially when they get kids at Melbourne Private Schools who don't even play TAC Cup for NSW.

And it's compounded by GWS's complete and utter neglect of Western Sydney development wise as evidenced by their sponsorship of Manly (WTF)

The fastest growing area in Australia (Western Sydney) plus Canberra is more than ample development zone for GWS but I fear what will happen is that our zone, which is a true development zone and one we invest in heavily, will be trimmed and given to GWS who will do f-all there.

Then again GWS will say they don't get F-S and that western Sydney will take time to come online. I'd like to see a phasing out of the Riverina zone, maybe allowing a max of one recruit per year for the next 10 years, and a tightening of eligibility (only players who have played TAC Cup for NSW/ACT should be eligible).

Regardless of what happens the genie is out of the bottle with GWS. They have another strong draft position this year and by next year (if not this year) have a squad that will potentially be in the GF for the next decade. It's going to be fun to watch

[Velour&Ruffles]

Again Maguire shoots off at the mouth about something he doesn't have a clue on.

I think you underestimate the fat, bullying, red-faced @@@@@. I think he understands these issues perfectly well. I just don't think he's interested in letting the facts get in the way of his end game. He is happy to whip up a frenzy based on falsehoods if it advances his end game, because he knows everyone in Melbourne is too terrified of him to call him to account.

By the way Eddie, I was just having a joke then when I called you a fat, bullying, red-faced @@@@@. It was all in fun. You're a ripping bloke and a friend of this board. Plus I've learned a lot from your behaviour over the years - for example, I've learned that the most vicious personal abuse is apparently absolutely fine so long as it is followed by a token square up. At that point, the victim of the abuse is apparently a humourless sook if they react. Thanks for the lesson.

[Meg]

They are at it again. GWS under the pump

I've just read this article which Ludwig posted earlier. (The link comes up with that "no cookies" title so you don't know what it's about).' Very worthwhile read quoting Paul Moore who has donated a lot of money into both the Swans' and Giant's academies. He says Aussie rules had really slipped in the Riverina area cf rugby league and the Giants coverage of this area is important. This would back up Liz's caution somewhat earlier in this thread that the reason that a handful of high talent Riverina boys has emerged from the GWS academy should be looked at, after a lull in draft picks from the area, before jumping to conclusions. Very interesting and perhaps I too have been too quick to make assumptions. (Although I would still like to be convinced that the Giants are putting a big effort into the western suburbs of Sydney.)

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

[Steve]

They don't like any club benefiting from decent players out of their academy - that's the bottom line. The Riverina thing is basically a smokescreen - just the latest excuse for lobbying for more restrictions.

If we get top talents from Grafton and Ballina in successive drafts they'll complain about them living so far from Sydney and they would have been just as good without an academy etc etc etc.

The AFL are absolutely spineless and couldn't provide leadership if they were tortured into doing so - they either believe in the system they have implemented, or they think it is flawed and should be changed. Choose a position and stick to it. Instead they passively say they support academies, yet allow all the chatter and once it has sufficient momentum, they submit to the noise as if they're democratically upholding the just thing to do.

The only aspect I think has merit is placing some restriction on how long a player has to be in your academy, before you can select them and benefit from the 20% discount. Maybe they have to be in your academy for 2+ years - otherwise you can still nominate players from your zone, but don't get the points discount.

That seems to be one of the criticisms of GWS and some of their Riverina kids - that they hadn't heard of some of them until they blossomed late and basically fell into their lap.

[Meg]

The only aspect I think has merit is placing some restriction on how long a player has to be in your academy, before you can select them and benefit from the 20% discount. Maybe they have to be in your academy for 2+ years - otherwise you can still nominate players from your zone, but don't get the points discount.

I don't know what the rules are about time spent in the northern academies (or indeed if there are any time-spent rules). But I would expect the AFL will want to line up the northern academy and new generation academy rules as much as possible (which seems reasonable to me).

Under the new generation academy rules, for a club to be eligible to access a prospect at draft age, the player must have fully participated in the club's academy program for a minimum of three years before being drafted.

[Ludwig]

I would cut GWS and the other 2 academies a bit of slack on the amount of development they've done compared to us. We started our academy after a period of on field success and financial stability. We got a long term commitment from QBE. It was the right program at the right time. These other clubs are all on an AFL financial lifeline and have lots of other concerns to keep them occupied. It's really not the time to cut them down just when they're rolling our the program. The Melbourne supporters of clubs like Footscray and St Kilda who are still waiting after many years to see a premiership don't think it's fair that a start up like GWS is in a position to seriously challenge for a premiership. What McGuire has done is maliciously fanned the flames when he knows full well that it was the intention of the AFL to put GWS and GC in such a position. He was one of the supporters of this strategy. He's trying to make himself into a hometown hero, but he's such a hypocrite.

[Steve]

I don't know what the rules are about time spent in the northern academies (or indeed if there are any time-spent rules). But I would expect the AFL will want to line up the northern academy and new generation academy rules as much as possible (which seems reasonable to me).

Under the new generation academy rules, for a club to be eligible to access a prospect at draft age, the player must have fully participated in the club's academy program for a minimum of three years before being drafted.

Personally I think there should still be an incentive/reward to bring talented athletes into academies at 16-18 (who may have become disenchanted their previously chosen sport, their physical characteristics changed to either become suited to AFL or alternatively no longer suited to their existing sport, etc etc). Or just simply they have always played footy but are late bloomers and need an intensive 'finishing school' that the academy could be for them to become a good AFL prospect.

But it makes sense that, and harder for he likes of Eddie to argue against, the full benefit (ie. 20% discount) is deserved by clubs who find and develop prospects at an earlier age and not only 'create' players for the AFL system, but also hundreds of other players who bolster junior teams, suburban clubs etc in the developing states along the way.

Otherwise the AFL may as well just pay for boarding scholarships to private schools in VIC, SA and WA for the talented prospects from NSW and QLD - and the northern clubs not bother with the expense and effort of running academies.

[707]

I don't know what the rules are about time spent in the northern academies (or indeed if there are any time-spent rules). But I would expect the AFL will want to line up the northern academy and new generation academy rules as much as possible (which seems reasonable to me).

Under the new generation academy rules, for a club to be eligible to access a prospect at draft age, the player must have fully participated in the club's academy program for a minimum of three years before being drafted.

I think that is what the new paperwork for academies is all about. When it comes draft time, the AFL will have the paperwork going back over the preceding years to see if first round draft pick Joe Blogs had been in your academy from 14 years of age and exactly what the clubs input into his development has been.

Maybe Jacob Hopper may not have passed this litmus test and that's why the new audit trail has been created.

After Heeney and Mills, the focus is now off us and very firmly on GWS who despite the caution shown by many on here will highly likely become unstoppable going forward. Their list is overloaded with high draft picks and that much talent will succeed and succeed to excess much to the chagrin of the VFL clubs, and of course Eddie :-)

[Ludwig]

Here's another good article on the subject:
AFL is a national competition and non-Victorian clubs are not just making up the numbers - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The last few sentences express much of what has been expressed on RWO:

For the record, the Suns have just five Queenslanders on their list and the Lions 13. The Giants have nine New South Wales players and the Swans 14.

There is some incredible short-sighted parochialism at work in the AFL.

When Brisbane won three premierships in the early part of this century, McGuire led the charge to cut back some salary cap concessions for the Lions.

When Sydney grabbed Lance Franklin in a clever piece of free trading, the howls resulted in the cost of living allowance being stripped back for the Swans.

On the other hand, the Hawks have won the past three premierships. They too have used the draft rules to great effect with Brian Lake, James Frawley and Ben McEvoy among those taken from other clubs to ensure their dynasty continued through four grand final appearances.

And yet there is no derision directed at the Hawks.

It is the AFL, not the VFL.

The clubs from outside Victoria are not just there to make up the numbers ? good enough to be in the competition but not allowed to actually win it.

[ernie koala]

GWS who despite the caution shown by many on here will highly likely become unstoppable going forward. Their list is overloaded with high draft picks and that much talent will succeed and succeed to excess much to the chagrin of the VFL clubs, and of course Eddie :-)

Whilst I agree, GWS will bank plenty of talent going forward.

Their salary cap, which I think is due to fall inline with the rest of the competition in the next few years ( happy to be corrected on this),

will mean in the medium to long term, keeping all the talent they collect will be next to impossible.

Certainly I think handing GWS the Riverina , essentially as a recruiting zone, is not inline with the aim of developement of non AFL zones.

And IMO is too much advantage and should be pared back.

[Steve]

If clubs are so incensed with the juggernaut GWS is destined to become, they're welcome to boycott trading with them.

Don't trade picks to improve their own draft position (to prevent GWS gaining extra points to use on academy players).

Don't trade for ex-first round picks wanting to return to VIC (force GWS to delist them for nothing, and then sign them as delisted free agents or via the draft).

Certain misinformation is again being swallowed by the media and absorbed into the background - eg. the assertion that the GWS academy zone was a concession given to them as an expansion club, but now they're established they don't need it.

[jono2707]

Of course the AFL is banking that premiership success will magically bring GWS thousands of new fans to ultimately reap some sort of return on their massive investment. So much is riding on that assumption and the sort of allowances given to GWS are designed to make that happen.

[barry]

The goal of academies is to provide enough local players to northern clubs they do not rely on traditional states. Until it gets there, leave it alone.

[aardvark]

AFL won't change GWS Giants' academy zones, says Gillon McLachlan - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Well that fixes that problem for the moment. Shame Pridham had to apologize to Eddie. Hopefully he'll get his facts straight before he goes on twitter next time.

"I now understand Eddie's comment related to Parramatta. Withdraw comment and apologise unreservedly on that point."

McGuire had detailed his disgust on Triple M about the way Pridham "defamed and tried to publicly humiliate" the long-time Magpies figurehead.

[Ludwig]

Great article from Rebecca Wilson. Really sets things straight on Crazy Eddie.

No Cookies | Herald Sun