They are at it again. GWS under the pump

[Mug Punter]

Todd Marshall has spent the past 2 winters playing cricket in England. Not the Giants' fault that they couldn't do anything with him during this time, but nonetheless it seems a good argument that they don't deserve priority access to him. Kinnear Beatson has already come out and said that academy clubs need to show that they have been involved in the development of players that they have priority access to. He hasn't directly commented on this case, to my knowledge, but I would guess he would agree with the AFL's decision. That said, I really don't know the details about this particular case, nor the specific rules concerning this type of situation.

And whilst the AFL are at it they can rule out the kids who have spent their last two years at Melbourne private schools on football scholarships.

Beatson nails it. The other clubs see us at the Swans busting our guts spending millions on true development and they'll wear it. We can show and they clearly see that the kids we produce are converts the code as Mills and Heeney clearly are. And we develop hundreds of kids for each one we draft. Ditto with Brisbane and their Hyundai sponsored academy whilst Gold Coast really seem to have drawn the short straw where they are.

But they aren't prepared to see this mob just cherry pick a fertile recruitment zone that they put no real effort into, they rightly get annoyed. And whilst it is a separate issue to the draft concessions they are related as in GWS have been given enough to get up to speed, they've played the system well so they don't need special assistance.

For starters only kids that play TAC Cup (or are able to if injured) should be allowed to be eligible. Every single one of our kids is, why should theirs be?

And the AFL should do a full and public audit of the academy work that GWS is actually doing in these areas to justify the benefits they get.

They are development zones and no recruitment zones. Take the Riverina out and the issue dies.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it is a disgrace. They have the biggest development zone in Australia in Western Sydney and they are doing NOTHING to that region because they do not have the bottle or the will. They do similarly little in Canberra but then expect to be able to draft any talented kid in an AFL heartland.

On this issue I'm 100% with the Melbourne clubs.

[TheGong]

The rules are in the AFL document AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE RULES May 2016. These can be accessed through the AFL site link AFL Policies - AFL.com.au


There a number of rules concerning eligibility:

Academy Eligibility

(a) Player Eligibility for Inclusion in Club Academy
(i) A Player is eligible to be included in a Club Academy only if the Player satisfies the age requirements under Rule 14.2(b) (subject to Rule 14.9) and, unless determined otherwise by the AFL, the Player is domiciled in that Club?s Academy Region.
(ii) Notwithstanding clause 14.2(a)(i), the AFL may direct a Club to include a Player in its Club Academy.
(b) Age Requirements
Subject to Rule 14.9, a Player must satisfy the following age requirements in order to be included in a Club?s Academy:
(i) A Player must have attained the age of 10 years or will attain the age of 10 years on or before 31 December in the Football Year that they are first included in the Club Academy.
(ii) A Player must be under the age of 18 years as at 31 December in the Football Year that they are included in a Club Academy.

Club Academy Player ? Continuing Eligibility

Unless otherwise determined by the AFL, a Player included in a Club Academy must:
(a) remain domiciled in that Club?s Academy Region; and
(b) be registered and play in an Australian football competition located in the Academy Region; and
(c) if selected, represent either New South Wales or Queensland, as the case may be, at any underage national football championships; and
(d) attend Player screening/testing as directed by the AFL National Talent Manager.

Are the GWS TAC Cup players "be registered and play in an Australian football competition located in the Academy Region"?

I don't think that the Academy discount should be given for players whose development is not provided by the Academies. Fair enough, they can still be available to be selected by the clubs at the national draft but not at a discount.

[Nico]

Can someone please answer this; I am from Melbourne so I can only go on what I read. It occurs to me that the good folk of Western Sydney are made of many ethnic groups, and that many of these have no traditional connection with aussie rules. Just because there is a large pool of people doesn't mean it translates to a throng of enthusiastic youths who want to play the game. True or false? I thought that they got the Riverina on the basis that the conversion of the Western Suburbs was a long term project. GWS, like us have played by the rules, but success is not an option in the eyes of some.

These due process rules trotted out a couple of weeks ago were clearly targeted at this GWS kid. They make this crap up on the run. The rule should apply from 2017.

Is there anyone at the AFL who can think through and write a business plan that might stand the test of time, without having to constantly make changes?

[TheGong]

I don't know how true or false it is. There has been and there is talent in the GWS Sydney zone. Michael Hartley who played for Essendon last week is from Penrith. I am fairly sure a number of West Sydney players were picked up under the old scholarship scheme. A number of junior clubs in Sydney were moved out from the Swans academy zone to the GWS academy zone.

GWS also have Canberra and southern NSW. Tex Walker is from Broken Hill which is part of the GWS zone.

[Luke Shannon]

Can someone please answer this; I am from Melbourne so I can only go on what I read. It occurs to me that the good folk of Western Sydney are made of many ethnic groups, and that many of these have no traditional connection with aussie rules. Just because there is a large pool of people doesn't mean it translates to a throng of enthusiastic youths who want to play the game. True or false? I thought that they got the Riverina on the basis that the conversion of the Western Suburbs was a long term project. GWS, like us have played by the rules, but success is not an option in the eyes of some.

These due process rules trotted out a couple of weeks ago were clearly targeted at this GWS kid. They make this crap up on the run. The rule should apply from 2017.

Is there anyone at the AFL who can think through and write a business plan that might stand the test of time, without having to constantly make changes?

Mug Punter would be best placed to answer this question, but their are actually some good AFL zones in Sydney.

Eastern Suburbs - strong Auskick numbers and some strong junior clubs such as Easts and the Marobra Saints. Will Langford is probably the best known AFL player from this zone. Abe Davis and Jordan Foote were also developed in this zone. Could become a rich zone for talent if the AFL can fully penetrate some of the private schools in the area. These private schools are hanging onto Rugby Union for dear life. This blocks the path of talented juniors from the age of 12.

Inner West - dominated at senior level by the powerful Sydney Universiry club they have produced AFL listed players such as Tom Young, Jack Hiscox and Jarrod Witts (Jarrod Witts like LRT was from a North Shore Private School). The area is fed by strong well run junior clubs like the Glebe Greyhounds.

North West - probably the best AFL zone in Sydney. Strong senior clubs such as Penant Hills and the East Coast Eagles. Also have really strong junior set ups. Have produced Lenny Hayes, the Jack boys and McVeigh.

North Shore and Northern Beaches. Strong junior setups that has produced AFL players like Mills and LRT.

LRT and Witts both went to North Shore Private Schools and were from Rugby backgrounds. Both superb athletes, they were good rugby second rowers, but ideal builds for AFL.

There is however not much great News in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. Two of their previous strong clubs such as Wests and Cambletown are in decline. Wests produced Nick Davis, but being based at Crydon could almost be termed an Inner West club now. Wests junior numbers are in decline and without money their senior team is weak. Campbeltown did have a hand in producing Dustin Martin.

The Western suburbs is dominated by Soccer and Rugby League. In fairness to GWS it's always going to be tough to get things going there. The AFL has deployed more resources from its Moore Park offices to try and help.

I see the West Surburbs being a slow burn and will take time. Moving GWS's home base away from Blacktown to Homebush, which is now on the boundary of the Inner West is probably not helping.

[707]

I can see why Melbourne clubs are being vocal. If you look at the list profile of GWS it is truly scary in its quality, the VFL have probably given GWS too much at the start up stage just to ensure they are almost immediately successful.

The problem now is that every year they can trade out surplus players for high draft picks thereby perpetuating the largesse. This year they already have three first rounders and will get another one for Tomlinson and another for McCarthy. So to a list already overflowing with first round, particularly top 10 picks, they will add at least another five!!! All this with no end in sight.

The Riverina should be expunged from their zoning sooner rather than later and run by the VFL themselves to ensure the continued flow of talent into the national pool. GWS like us should have to work in real development areas like the south coast and the area they were formed to conquer the western suburbs!

If the VFL don't act quickly, we will have a multiple premiership side continuing to reap the rich rewards of the Riverina making them an ongoing powerhouse funded by the AFL and supported by only a handful of real fans. I'm with Eddie on this one and it hurts me to say that!

[dimelb]

A thoughtful and constructive article from Emma Quayle on this issue:

Why there should be more shade in the Giants Academy debate

[barry]

The Riverina is in NSW, not Victoria. Picture the Riverina as an academy zone that has successfully worked. ie one day, Sydney East could be as advanced as the Riverina. Do zone's un-qualify for academies once they are successful ? What incentive is there to grow your academy if when its actually delivering it will be taken away.

Simply put, NSW clubs need to get NSW kids to avoid all the relocation problems they face. As implied above, if GWS lost the riverina they would be at a severe disadvantage compare to the other northern clubs and the rest of the AFL.

I would think the AFL's plan would to eventually let all clubs have home-state academy zones, but before that NSW / QLD zones need to be up to speed.

- - - Updated - - -

The rules are in the AFL document AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE RULES May 2016. These can be accessed through the AFL site link AFL Policies - AFL.com.au


There a number of rules concerning eligibility:

Academy Eligibility

(a) Player Eligibility for Inclusion in Club Academy
(i) A Player is eligible to be included in a Club Academy only if the Player satisfies the age requirements under Rule 14.2(b) (subject to Rule 14.9) and, unless determined otherwise by the AFL, the Player is domiciled in that Club?s Academy Region.
(ii) Notwithstanding clause 14.2(a)(i), the AFL may direct a Club to include a Player in its Club Academy.
(b) Age Requirements
Subject to Rule 14.9, a Player must satisfy the following age requirements in order to be included in a Club?s Academy:
(i) A Player must have attained the age of 10 years or will attain the age of 10 years on or before 31 December in the Football Year that they are first included in the Club Academy.
(ii) A Player must be under the age of 18 years as at 31 December in the Football Year that they are included in a Club Academy.

Club Academy Player ? Continuing Eligibility

Unless otherwise determined by the AFL, a Player included in a Club Academy must:
(a) remain domiciled in that Club?s Academy Region; and
(b) be registered and play in an Australian football competition located in the Academy Region; and
(c) if selected, represent either New South Wales or Queensland, as the case may be, at any underage national football championships; and
(d) attend Player screening/testing as directed by the AFL National Talent Manager.

Are the GWS TAC Cup players "be registered and play in an Australian football competition located in the Academy Region"?

I don't think that the Academy discount should be given for players whose development is not provided by the Academies. Fair enough, they can still be available to be selected by the clubs at the national draft but not at a discount.

This one is not fair: "be registered and play in an Australian football competition located in the Academy Region". So good players on academies have to rot in substandard local leagues rather than better themselves in higher quality leagues elsewhere.
Sounds like its written by a Victorian club president who knows that Victoria has high quality leagues.

[jono2707]

Probably the bigger question is still whether people will bother turning up to Giants matches once they've gotten all this success that's apparently coming their way?

[Meg]

I would think the AFL's plan would to eventually let all clubs have home-state academy zones, but before that NSW / QLD zones need to be up to speed.

- - - Updated - - -
.

The AFL has already given every club its own academy zone through the New Generation Academies umbrella (multi-cultural & indigenous focused). If they were not to establish strengthened criteria for clubs' eligibility to players emerging from both the northern academies and these new academies, the structure would become a de facto recruitment zoning model. The Swans and other northern clubs would be disadvantaged by that.

[707]

Just read on the BF main board that when GWS beat Hawthorn last week they had 11 first round picks not playing. Now that is way too much talent on a list, talent they will keep trading off to other clubs for even more first round picks.

Apparently they have three top ten draft picks from the Riverina likely in this years draft and plenty of picks to take them, three first rounders and two seconds before they trade out any players like McCarthy etc.

That's way too much of a leg up. Get to work in western Sydney, that's what you were created for. I'm quickly getting over any good feelings towards GWS!

[dimelb]

Just read on the BF main board that when GWS beat Hawthorn last week they had 11 first round picks not playing. Now that is way too much talent on a list, talent they will keep trading off to other clubs for even more first round picks.

Apparently they have three top ten draft picks from the Riverina likely in this years draft and plenty of picks to take them, three first rounders and two seconds before they trade out any players like McCarthy etc.

That's way too much of a leg up. Get to work in western Sydney, that's what you were created for. I'm quickly getting over any good feelings towards GWS!

I assume the bit I've highlighted is still part of the start-up concessions. Does anyone know how much longer this bounty will last?

And again, won't the points GWS have to pay for such prospects limit the number they can pick, even with the percentage reduction?

[Nico]

Just read on the BF main board that when GWS beat Hawthorn last week they had 11 first round picks not playing. Now that is way too much talent on a list, talent they will keep trading off to other clubs for even more first round picks.

Apparently they have three top ten draft picks from the Riverina likely in this years draft and plenty of picks to take them, three first rounders and two seconds before they trade out any players like McCarthy etc.

That's way too much of a leg up. Get to work in western Sydney, that's what you were created for. I'm quickly getting over any good feelings towards GWS!

If they traded for picks then how is that an unfair leg up. IIRC Collingwood traded a future first round pick for Treloar. Again locking the gate after the horse has bolted. Gold Coast was going to be the power club but injuries have cruelled them. All sorts of reasons were given why it was going to happen at the detriment of clubs; didn't happen. Just because they have a lot of 1st round picks doesn't mean they will all be stars. They were set up and the rules voted on by all the clubs; full bloody stop.Never forget that South Melbourne was sent to Sydney, Fitzroy to Brisbane and both were left to wither on the vine. The AFL wasn't going to let that happen again. Call TD what you like but he got GC and GWS right.

[KTigers]

Michael Hartley & Jarrod Witts went to Collingwood under the old scholarship scheme. Both spent a year or so at Sydney Uni before heading south. Hartley was cut by Collingwood before going to Essendon. Davis, Foote & Hiscox all went thru the Swans Academy after being very good, but not exceptional junior players. Lloyd Perris was the standout player from that age group IMO but was cut by the Swans at the end of last season. His injury proneness probably didn't help. AFL at a junior level in the eastern and northern suburbs and the inner west of Sydney has expanded tenfold in terms of actual numbers playing since 2000, but the numbers making it to an AFL list and staying there are still quite low. The Academies are basically an opportunity for these kids to have additional training and get noticed that never existed before. Though not every talented kid in Sydney is falling over themselves trying to get in an Academy and having an AFL career. Some of them were just as interested in hanging out with their mates and riding their skateboards, and even, lo and behold, doing well at the HSC!

I don't know how true or false it is. There has been and there is talent in the GWS Sydney zone. Michael Hartley who played for Essendon last week is from Penrith. I am fairly sure a number of West Sydney players were picked up under the old scholarship scheme. A number of junior clubs in Sydney were moved out from the Swans academy zone to the GWS academy zone.

GWS also have Canberra and southern NSW. Tex Walker is from Broken Hill which is part of the GWS zone.

[Velour&Ruffles]

Is there anyone at the AFL who can think through and write a business plan that might stand the test of time, without having to constantly make changes?

No.