They are at it again. GWS under the pump

[stellation]

I assume the bit I've highlighted is still part of the start-up concessions. Does anyone know how much longer this bounty will last?

No, it's not part of any start-up concessions- with the introduction of the ability to trade future draft picks GWS were one of the clubs were looked to utilise it, picking up a future first rounder from Collingwood and one from Geelong (and a second rounder, as well).

I feel like the conversation is muddied a little by general confusion, with media beat ups like those coming from Eddie obviously making things worse; there's a lot of talk that they're in their current position because of concessions, that's a large part of it but they've also simply been very, very clever with how they've managed their list.

[AnnieH]

Just read on the BF main board that when GWS beat Hawthorn last week they had 11 first round picks not playing. Now that is way too much talent on a list, talent they will keep trading off to other clubs for even more first round picks.

Apparently they have three top ten draft picks from the Riverina likely in this years draft and plenty of picks to take them, three first rounders and two seconds before they trade out any players like McCarthy etc.

That's way too much of a leg up. Get to work in western Sydney, that's what you were created for. I'm quickly getting over any good feelings towards GWS!

You had good feelings towards GWS?
Mmmmmmmmmmm.

[dimelb]

No, it's not part of any start-up concessions- with the introduction of the ability to trade future draft picks GWS were one of the clubs were looked to utilise it, picking up a future first rounder from Collingwood and one from Geelong (and a second rounder, as well).

I feel like the conversation is muddied a little by general confusion, with media beat ups like those coming from Eddie obviously making things worse; there's a lot of talk that they're in their current position because of concessions, that's a large part of it but they've also simply been very, very clever with how they've managed their list.

Thanks for clarifying that stella. To pick up my other question, are any concessions still in place, or are they now on a more-or-less level field with the other clubs?

And I'm sure you're right about the general confusion, and that GWS have made the most of their opportunities so that some parts of the level field are less elevated than others.

[Doctor]

Thanks for clarifying that stella. To pick up my other question, are any concessions still in place, or are they now on a more-or-less level field with the other clubs?

And I'm sure you're right about the general confusion, and that GWS have made the most of their opportunities so that some parts of the level field are less elevated than others.

They still have a COLA I think. Other than that, it's all done. All their stocked picks are now the result of clever trading, not concessions.

[stellation]

Thanks for clarifying that stella. To pick up my other question, are any concessions still in place, or are they now on a more-or-less level field with the other clubs?

And I'm sure you're right about the general confusion, and that GWS have made the most of their opportunities so that some parts of the level field are less elevated than others.

As Doctor pointed out, still some extra bucks above the league average and they also are allowed a larger list than the league norm which is to be phased out over the next few years (I'm not sure that they actually are using the full number they're allowed this year).

I think it's something that it is quite easy to be confused by. I feel like the media excitement has been cyclical in its hysteria, just rolling from one issue to another without really every digging into specifics; at first it was "they won't be able to retain any of them, it's pointless!" then it has morphed to "they have too many good young players!" without bothering to say "oh, they've clearly been able to retain some of them!"- in both of those examples it was Melbourne media with club associations ("land of the felafel" anyone?) leading the charge. I really feel like it's partly media pushing out stories to generate content in the modern world of 24 hour new cycles, but combined with a malicious, biased section of media consciously trying to manipulate general opinion.

Losing Treloar was a great example of excellent list management under difficult circumstances- bad situation to lose a star over money, but they lost him because of a list management policy that is based around retaining the group overall, they were aware it may occur with one young star midfielder and had already pushed games in to Kelly and Whitfield at an early age to mitigate it, and when he did go they worked on a return that was in their best interests in getting 2 first round picks that aligned with their needs (in getting a current and a future first round).

Maybe the media should start to focus less on "what the AFL gave them" and a little more on "how the hell have they managed to do it, and what can we learn from it?".

[AnnieH]

Maybe the media should start to focus less on "what the AFL gave them" and a little more on "how the hell have they managed to do it, and what can we learn from it?".

Maybe if Eddie concentrated more on the wobbles....

[Mug Punter]

Mug Punter would be best placed to answer this question, but their are actually some good AFL zones in Sydney.

Eastern Suburbs - strong Auskick numbers and some strong junior clubs such as Easts and the Marobra Saints. Will Langford is probably the best known AFL player from this zone. Abe Davis and Jordan Foote were also developed in this zone. Could become a rich zone for talent if the AFL can fully penetrate some of the private schools in the area. These private schools are hanging onto Rugby Union for dear life. This blocks the path of talented juniors from the age of 12.

Inner West - dominated at senior level by the powerful Sydney Universiry club they have produced AFL listed players such as Tom Young, Jack Hiscox and Jarrod Witts (Jarrod Witts like LRT was from a North Shore Private School). The area is fed by strong well run junior clubs like the Glebe Greyhounds.

North West - probably the best AFL zone in Sydney. Strong senior clubs such as Penant Hills and the East Coast Eagles. Also have really strong junior set ups. Have produced Lenny Hayes, the Jack boys and McVeigh.

North Shore and Northern Beaches. Strong junior setups that has produced AFL players like Mills and LRT.

LRT and Witts both went to North Shore Private Schools and were from Rugby backgrounds. Both superb athletes, they were good rugby second rowers, but ideal builds for AFL.

There is however not much great News in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. Two of their previous strong clubs such as Wests and Cambletown are in decline. Wests produced Nick Davis, but being based at Crydon could almost be termed an Inner West club now. Wests junior numbers are in decline and without money their senior team is weak. Campbeltown did have a hand in producing Dustin Martin.

The Western suburbs is dominated by Soccer and Rugby League. In fairness to GWS it's always going to be tough to get things going there. The AFL has deployed more resources from its Moore Park offices to try and help.

I see the West Surburbs being a slow burn and will take time. Moving GWS's home base away from Blacktown to Homebush, which is now on the boundary of the Inner West is probably not helping.

Overall that assessment is pretty spot on.

The North Shore, Eastern Suburbs and Hills District and St George are the traditional heartland of AFL in Sydney and also are in the Swans zone, except for Baulko as the bible belt is allocated to GWS (they can have them ) That allocation isn't a case for favouritism for the Swans but a geographical and socio-economic fact so let's not go down that path.

But GWS have Canberra which I suspect has produced a lot more senior AFL footballers than Sydney. And the Hills district has Baulko (we get Penno) but when you look at the footprint of Sydney GWS simply has an enormous footprint and the one that is growing massively and in the area of young families.

And it's not AFL wasteland, Sure the round ball has appeal there but there are also some real white blue collar areas and growing middle class areas.

And historically there has been success in the west with AFL, it has just been severely neglected which is why GWS' decision to sponsor Manly, a club in the Swans zone, whilst ignoring clubs in its feeder area is nothing short of disgraceful. Campbelltown weer a powerhouse of the SFL but wallow now and are near death, it would only takle a little money and some genuine interest by GWS to re-ignite that club, I really don't know why they don't.

Parramatta have won a SFL flag but remain under-achievers and Penrith have enormous potential with their own junior league but their senior club struggles.

There is an enormous opportunity for GWS to develop the game in western Sydney, they just cannot be bothered and for that they should be condemned.

PS - Nick Davis was not at Wests but St George and LRT was a country boy originally I think.

[Mug Punter]

Just read on the BF main board that when GWS beat Hawthorn last week they had 11 first round picks not playing. Now that is way too much talent on a list, talent they will keep trading off to other clubs for even more first round picks.

Apparently they have three top ten draft picks from the Riverina likely in this years draft and plenty of picks to take them, three first rounders and two seconds before they trade out any players like McCarthy etc.

That's way too much of a leg up. Get to work in western Sydney, that's what you were created for. I'm quickly getting over any good feelings towards GWS!

Even without the academy they have more than enough pipeline to ensure success for the next 5-8 years which is more than enough time to get their Western Sydney and Canberra academies up to speed.

If they had any balls and integrity they'd recognise the inherent rorting they are doing of this system and suggest a solution - zone our Riverina over five years and allocate strategic funding for Western Sydney for the next 15 years

[Ludwig]

The West Coast Eagles were minor premiers in their 5th year in the AFL and won the premiership the following year. So what's all the excitement about just because GWS are playing well and are serious contenders in their 5th season?

They are not rorting the system if they are just taking what the system is giving them. It's the same as saying we rorted the system because of the COLA. It's not like GWS have to wait in a queue until Carlton, Melbourne and the Bulldogs get their shot at a premiership. We all know that if things go right they have more than enough talent to win premierships in the next few years, but it's not done until it's done.

[Mug Punter]

The West Coast Eagles were minor premiers in their 5th year in the AFL and won the premiership the following year. So what's all the excitement about just because GWS are playing well and are serious contenders in their 5th season?

They are not rorting the system if they are just taking what the system is giving them. It's the same as saying we rorted the system because of the COLA. It's not like GWS have to wait in a queue until Carlton, Melbourne and the Bulldogs get their shot at a premiership. We all know that if things go right they have more than enough talent to win premierships in the next few years, but it's not done until it's done.

I have no issue at all with the depth of the GWS list. The AFL rightly said they were going to be given every opportunity to succeed, they erred on the side of generosity re concessions but they have drafted and traded well and developed the players well. They will have a period of dominance where everyone in Melbourne acts as if the world will end and it will be uncomfortable given their minute and superficial supporter base but it will resolve itself over time.

Whether they are rorting the system or merely taking advantage of an inherently flawed system is a case of symantics but what else do you call it when they get to draft a kid at a posh Melbourne Private School who doesn't play in their programme for his entire senior schooling, how on earth can GWS justify getting access to klds like that.

And their complete disregard for developing the game in western Sydney where it is most desperately needed? Not rorting but absolutely disgusting.

I just think that they do little for the game apart from the TV money they deliver. I always thought they were a bad idea but I decided I'd give them the benefit of the doubt because I thought they'd develop the game here in Sydney and they have just shown no desire at all to connect, they just want the quick fix.

The academies are about developing new talent and increasing community engagement. GWS fail appallingly on both counts.

[707]

How many academy picks for GWS from areas other than the Riverina? What's that I hear, none?

Take the Riverina under AFL control and get GWS to actually develop non AFL areas like western Sydney where they are supposed to be representing/based!

[Luke Shannon]

I have no issue at all with the depth of the GWS list. The AFL rightly said they were going to be given every opportunity to succeed, they erred on the side of generosity re concessions but they have drafted and traded well and developed the players well. They will have a period of dominance where everyone in Melbourne acts as if the world will end and it will be uncomfortable given their minute and superficial supporter base but it will resolve itself over time.

Whether they are rorting the system or merely taking advantage of an inherently flawed system is a case of symantics but what else do you call it when they get to draft a kid at a posh Melbourne Private School who doesn't play in their programme for his entire senior schooling, how on earth can GWS justify getting access to klds like that.

And their complete disregard for developing the game in western Sydney where it is most desperately needed? Not rorting but absolutely disgusting.

I just think that they do little for the game apart from the TV money they deliver. I always thought they were a bad idea but I decided I'd give them the benefit of the doubt because I thought they'd develop the game here in Sydney and they have just shown no desire at all to connect, they just want the quick fix.

The academies are about developing new talent and increasing community engagement. GWS fail appallingly on both counts.

I actually don't mind GWS dominating the AFL because it could be the Swans best shot at winning another premiership in the next couple of years. For some reason the Swans match up really well on GWS and have always beaten them with the exception of a wet day in 2014. GWS matches up well on Geelong and the Hawks. The Swans may be able to snatch a premiership or two because GWS have killed off the Hawks or Geelong in a couple of finals series's.

[barry]

Gws being dominant, of it happens, is good for footy in NSW. Bring it on .

[Nico]

Gws being dominant, of it happens, is good for footy in NSW. Bring it on .

Agree Baz. Let these born to rule clubs wallow in their self pity and ineptitude. Carlton the cheque book club of the past are unable to succeed without it or cheating on the salary cap, Essendon; we didn't do it, we were conned, not our fault, we didn't cheat on the salary cap, besides the penalties were too harsh, Collongwood; the rules are not fair, boo hoo, pass the Kleenex.,

[stellation]

I actually don't mind GWS dominating the AFL because it could be the Swans best shot at winning another premiership in the next couple of years. For some reason the Swans match up really well on GWS and have always beaten them with the exception of a wet day in 2014. GWS matches up well on Geelong and the Hawks. The Swans may be able to snatch a premiership or two because GWS have killed off the Hawks or Geelong in a couple of finals series's.

I like your thinking!