They are at it again. GWS under the pump

[Mug Punter]

Lucky we get a 20% discount because whenever "academy" gets mentioned the media pumps up player by 200%.

"Swans miss out on first shot at top prospect Ben Davis" - a kid who was that far off it last year that he didn't even bother nominating for the draft. Clearly if we thought he was any chance for this year we would have at least had him nominate then.

He does OK as a 19 y/o playing in the U/18's and suddenly he's a 'top prospect'.

Clearly we would have known he's not eligible, so it's not as if we would have suddenly thought he was a gun and enquired with the AFL. More likely a journalist just fishing for an academy story and picking up on the fact Abe is his brother.

Most likely he's a rookie prospect anyway so if we want him we'd get him anyway.

The best way for the Academy debate to go away is for us to really start producing quality in numbers and losing more than we keep.

[Mug Punter]

If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

Now look at where the other 15 come from:

8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
4 from Wagga and thereabouts
1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

The system is a joke!!!!

[mcs]

If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

Now look at where the other 15 come from:

8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
4 from Wagga and thereabouts
1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

The system is a joke!!!!

That's pretty damning evidence there Mug of just what is wrong with the current Academy setup.

[Luke Shannon]

If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

Now look at where the other 15 come from:

8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
4 from Wagga and thereabouts
1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

The system is a joke!!!!

This is brilliant for the Swans. This will antagonise Eddie and put GWS in Eddie's firing line. This will take the heat out of the Swans academy.

Pridham needs to stay out of the argument and let Eddie and Shepard duke it out.

[Ludwig]

After the problems the AFL are having with the GC, I think they'll be happy to see a GWS success story. The AFL can always point to how difficult it is to get an expansion club up and running and justify the concessions given to GWS as necessary for securing the long term success of the league.

The plethora of good players coming out of the GWS academy zones has ensured a steady flow of their Victorians back home. There will be some more this year. Making the claim that the Giants are too good is saying that only Victorian sides have the right to challenge for premierships. Making the expansion clubs competitive quickly was a goal off the league, which now has one success and one failure in that regard, although GC have been hurt by injury and several other problems.

[mcs]

After the problems the AFL are having with the GC, I think they'll be happy to see a GWS success story. The AFL can always point to how difficult it is to get an expansion club up and running and justify the concessions given to GWS as necessary for securing the long term success of the league.

The plethora of good players coming out of the GWS academy zones has ensured a steady flow of their Victorians back home. There will be some more this year. Making the claim that the Giants are too good is saying that only Victorian sides have the right to challenge for premierships. Making the expansion clubs competitive quickly was a goal off the league, which now has one success and one failure in that regard, although GC have been hurt by injury and several other problems.

I get your point Ludwig, but with the talent flowing to GWS, they won't just have a premiership 'window' like other teams, they'll have a potential premiership 'generation' - the place is already loaded with talent, and they are going to keep heaping it in. You are right that there will be a continuing steady flow of Victorians back home, but GWS are going to have such a ridiculously deep list, which they will continually be able to replenish by trading out the excess players and replacing them with more top end talent.

Im all for making teams competitive in the shorter term, but GWS, if managed well, will have the chance to dominate the league for a very long time on the basis of the concessions they have and will keep getting if there is not adjustments made.

[stellation]

The Riverina has always had a strong footy tradition, in the old Teal Cup state comp they had their own team (who were most intimidating!)- but I don't remember them constantly having multiple first round picks coming from the area every year, which seems to be what people are suggesting is the case now. I'm guessing that means that the Academy is helping there?

I'm sure there will be improvements in kids coming from Western Sydney, but it will take time- the academy really hasn't been in place for that long in an area that didn't have a lot of high level training available to kids.

[Pmcc2911]

If anyone wants any more evidence of how ridiculous the Academy is rigged in its set up for GWS need only look at the current Under 18 Squad that his torched both Tasmania and Queensland in this years championships.

It's scary stuff when you consider how much we invest at the Swans.

Of the 28 players on the list 21 are from GWS with our five consisting of five from Sydney and one from Illawarra and one from Port Macquarie.

Of the 12 best player listings 10 were GWS players - Angus Baker from North Shore and Hamish MacDonald from Illawarra being the exceptions.

Then you look at the location of the GWS Boys. Not one from Western Sydney of course but they do have three from Canberra - that proves my point re the ACT as a fertile zone, they get three to our five despite us having 12 as many people.

They do have some country kids above the Murrumbidgee Line in areas that I still consider fair game as development - Jacob Turner from Temora (NRL heartland and home of Trent Barrett and Pale Face Adios) and Nathan Richards from Griffith. I'd also throw in Isaac Cumming from Broken Hill

So in a decent carve up that's six GWS boys and seven Swans

Now look at where the other 15 come from:

8 from Albury or right on the border - 8 kids, not of who play for the NSW/ACT Rams in the TAC Cup with one kid playing for Sandringham
1 from the Northern Jets - how the F does he qualify?
4 from Wagga and thereabouts
1 from Henty (halfway between Albuty and Wagga
1 from Wentworth who plays for the Bendigo Pioneers

The system is a joke!!!!

I think is there is bit of bias towards GWS affiliated players in the selection of the 18's team, when I looked at the team I remembered thinking that there is a large percentage of GWS kids selected.
For example Harry Carr (from the Swans Academy), who was in the wider 18's squad cant get a run but was good enough to play a couple of NEAFL games last year and was called up for the NEAFL last weekend.

[barry]

I get your point Ludwig, but with the talent flowing to GWS, they won't just have a premiership 'window' like other teams, they'll have a potential premiership 'generation' - the place is already loaded with talent, and they are going to keep heaping it in. You are right that there will be a continuing steady flow of Victorians back home, but GWS are going to have such a ridiculously deep list, which they will continually be able to replenish by trading out the excess players and replacing them with more top end talent.

Im all for making teams competitive in the shorter term, but GWS, if managed well, will have the chance to dominate the league for a very long time on the basis of the concessions they have and will keep getting if there is not adjustments made.

Thats rubish. Premierships are built on more than draft picks. Its the melbourne media's obsession with draft picks that makes all this BS up. If that was the case, then Melbourne the tankers would be flag favourites.

- - - Updated - - -

That's pretty damning evidence there Mug of just what is wrong with the current Academy setup.

Mcs and Mug Punter. The two resident baboons agreeing on something stupid. Who would have thunk it.

[dimelb]

Thats rubish. Premierships are built on more than draft picks. Its the melbourne media's obsession with draft picks that makes all this BS up. If that was the case, then Melbourne the tankers would be flag favourites.

- - - Updated - - -



Mcs and Mug Punter. The two resident baboons agreeing on something stupid. Who would have thunk it.

Barry, that is not playing nicely. Go and stand in the naughty corner for half an hour.

[Luke Shannon]

I ask myself the question of whether I'm a die hard Swans supporter or a big picture guy who wants the AFL game to succeed.

If your a big picture person and want the AFL game to multiply and succeed, then you must get behind GWS.

I'm thinking about also purchasing a GWS membership as my little guy can't get enough of live AFL football. I'm sure we would enjoy the games at Spotless and would get to watch, like the Swans an exciting team.

I'm interested to know how many people on this forum also have a GWS membership?

How many people consider GWS to be their 2nd team?

I see GWS as different to Port v Crows.

I see GWS as the force taking the AFL game to the next level.

The Swans probably have over 35,000 Sydney based members. If many of these members can also get behind GWS we can grow the greatest sport in the world in a key battle ground.

Having said all that, the Swans are my number one team.

[mcs]

Thats rubish. Premierships are built on more than draft picks. Its the melbourne media's obsession with draft picks that makes all this BS up. If that was the case, then Melbourne the tankers would be flag favourites.

- - - Updated - - -

Mcs and Mug Punter. The two resident baboons agreeing on something stupid. Who would have thunk it.

Bit rich coming from you Barry - no doubt you are posting using ANZ's free wifi from your house in the depths of ANZ Stadium some where

As I said, I am all for reasonable concessions to get a team up and running. But GWS will have an absolutely unprecedented ability to keep a team choc full of top end talent for a very, very long time, through a combination of factors. This is being aided significantly by exclusive access to Riverina players, with little requirement to do any substantial work to develop additional talent in the region. No it isn't going to be a gold mine every year, but it's basically money for jam in its current form - with little requirement for GWS to actually put in much work to develop this high quality talent.

I have no issues with players coming through GWS's academy in a similar way as our academy - that is their purpose. But these 'academy' players in Riverina do not fall into that category in the majority of cases - hence you have these bizarre situations where kids studying and playing in Melbourne, who have basically never worked with GWS in the life, are able to be taken as 'academy' picks.

I never suggested it will win them Premierships - that plays out on the field. But with astute list management, it would be an absolute failure if they don't manage to win multiple Premierships.

GWS will have an ability to stay within that Premiership window for far longer than any other club could ever expect to do so.

When you have a list that has what it already has in terms of top end talent, then it will provide you with a consistent ability to churn the list without actually substantially weakening the list. Whereas other teams cast-offs are worth nothing or little trade currency, GWS can expect to consistently have significant surplus top end talent available to trade, which they can then receive top end draft picks in order to replace.

And there is no way, even if hell froze over, that I'll be giving a cent of my hard earned dollars to GWS, as Luke suggests we should, in some sort of corpratised love in with the AFL and its ambitions. Many are happy to be a dual member, but that's not for me.

As for your original point Barry, tell me this. Just how many 1st rd draft picks are on Melbourne's List, and how many 1st rd draft picks are on GWS's list? That'll give more than plenty of evidence why these are entirely different circumstances.

[Ludwig]

Mcs and Mug Punter. The two resident baboons agreeing on something stupid. Who would have thunk it.

What about me, Barry? Here I am playing in the back yard with Mug and Mcs.

[Ludwig]

I ask myself the question of whether I'm a die hard Swans supporter or a big picture guy who wants the AFL game to succeed.

I ask myself the question of whether I'm a die hard Pies supporter or a big picture guy who wants the AFL game to succeed.

[mcs]

What about me, Barry? Here I am playing in the back yard with Mug and Mcs.