Round 6: Sydney Swans Reserves v Gold Coast Suns Reserves @ Blacktown

[Dosser]

Alex Rance, Jacob Weitering, Ted Richards...just off the top of my head...Ben Reid..so yeah, nah - you're wrong there.

They were all taken as forwards or versatile in their drafts.

[liz]

Alex Rance, Jacob Weitering, Ted Richards...just off the top of my head...Ben Reid..so yeah, nah - you're wrong there.

There have been many fine defenders taken with first round picks - other than those you mention, names like Hurley, Lever, D. Talia, P Davis spring to mind. But there are also many fine defenders who have been taken late in the draft, including from the rookie list. Ruckmen are similar - for every Kreuzer, Leuenberger, NicNat, you can name a Sandilands, Cox, Mumford or Jacobs.

In contrast, it's very rare to find a competent tall forward outside of the top 15 picks or so. A few have been found in the second round but it's very slim pickings after that.

So while you can certainly find very good defenders early in the draft, I think the point is that you can also find them with later picks (and a bit of luck). The same isn't true of forwards.

[mcs]

Our list depth has come on really well this year but Davis, O'Riordan and Naismith are three players that I believe can also make the step up.

It gets us very close to that number of 30 genuine senior footballers you hear bandied about. From the 22 last night we had four genuine first teamers out - Reid, Rohan, Ted and Talia. I'd also qualify Towers which leaves you with 27. BJ is borderline in my opinion but with AA and those three developing it gets us close.

Surely our first pick this year at the draft is a KPD, geez we are light on there

I really like what O'Riordan has shown so far. He really has something about him - given him 2016-17 to get to grips with the game and I reckon by the end of next season he will be pushing really hard for Senior Selection. There is plenty in how he goes about his footy that remind me of another Irish gentleman that pulled on the Red and White and did alright for us

[barry]

Golden rule of drafting is not to waste a first round pick on a KPD, especially not a top 10 pick. Why you may ask ?

Well, defense is an easier position to play than forward as you can simply follow the forward around (exhibit A: LRT). Therefore at junior level, if you are a KPD, you've been rated not good enough for a KPF (forward) role. (at least in most cases). Therefore better to pick forwards in the draft and then make them into defenders. It usually takes talls a few years to get to senior standard, so you have time to train and condition these players.

The second reason, is you dont want a lot of salary cap tied up in defenders. The best balance is money invested in mids and forwards. They will win you the game. A team with high paid key position defenders will lack quality elsewhere where it matters (exhibit B: Richmond). Richmond, or 9th-mond have a history of there best players being defenders. From Gasper to Rance.

Swans won flags with cobbled together Key position defenders who didnt start that way. Ted, LRT, Leo Barry, etc. None of which would have been in the top 6 earners. Leaving cap room for glamour forwards like Hall and Buddy, etc.

You can of course, pick key position defenders in later rounds of the draft. This is where all the high quality forwards have gone already, and therefore defenders who are exceptional at sub-AFL level are worth considering.

[Dosser]

Golden rule of drafting is not to waste a first round pick on a KPD, especially not a top 10 pick. Why you may ask ?

Well, defense is an easier position to play than forward as you can simply follow the forward around (exhibit A: LRT). Therefore at junior level, if you are a KPD, you've been rated not good enough for a KPF (forward) role. (at least in most cases). Therefore better to pick forwards in the draft and then make them into defenders. It usually takes talls a few years to get to senior standard, so you have time to train and condition these players.

The second reason, is you dont want a lot of salary cap tied up in defenders. The best balance is money invested in mids and forwards. They will win you the game. A team with high paid key position defenders will lack quality elsewhere where it matters (exhibit B: Richmond). Richmond, or 9th-mond have a history of there best players being defenders. From Gasper to Rance.

Swans won flags with cobbled together Key position defenders who didnt start that way. Ted, LRT, Leo Barry, etc. None of which would have been in the top 6 earners. Leaving cap room for glamour forwards like Hall and Buddy, etc.

You can of course, pick key position defenders in later rounds of the draft. This is where all the high quality forwards have gone already, and therefore defenders who are exceptional at sub-AFL level are worth considering.

I hate to say it Barry, but you are 100% correct.

[mcs]

Golden rule of drafting is not to waste a first round pick on a KPD, especially not a top 10 pick. Why you may ask ?

Well, defense is an easier position to play than forward as you can simply follow the forward around (exhibit A: LRT). Therefore at junior level, if you are a KPD, you've been rated not good enough for a KPF (forward) role. (at least in most cases). Therefore better to pick forwards in the draft and then make them into defenders. It usually takes talls a few years to get to senior standard, so you have time to train and condition these players.

The second reason, is you dont want a lot of salary cap tied up in defenders. The best balance is money invested in mids and forwards. They will win you the game. A team with high paid key position defenders will lack quality elsewhere where it matters (exhibit B: Richmond). Richmond, or 9th-mond have a history of there best players being defenders. From Gasper to Rance.

Swans won flags with cobbled together Key position defenders who didnt start that way. Ted, LRT, Leo Barry, etc. None of which would have been in the top 6 earners. Leaving cap room for glamour forwards like Hall and Buddy, etc.

You can of course, pick key position defenders in later rounds of the draft. This is where all the high quality forwards have gone already, and therefore defenders who are exceptional at sub-AFL level are worth considering.

Interesting theorem Barry, and for once (I know it surprised me too!) I tend to agree to some extent. Occasionally you get those KPD that from Day 1 are top grade and ready to go, but there are a lot of them going around that have come from humbler backgrounds to become top class defenders.

[penga]

Play of the day. Ballet on grass. A useful move that could be added to Sinclair's game:

TubeChop - Chop YouTube Videos

Yaaaaaaas!! That's brilliant!!

Could we make a comparison on Davis at all? Maybe a Patrick Cripps? 190+cm mids boggle my mind.

And what about O'Riordan? From the sounds of it, a bit like Heath Shaw?

[Ludwig]

I generally agree with Barry's theory, but there are enough exceptions to say it doesn't deserve to be a Golden Rule.

For one, there have been very good value 1st round KPDs such as Hurley, Talia and Davis. I would easily give a top 5 pick for a Harry Taylor or Alex Rance, so you might say they went lower than they should have.

The other thing is the way the game has changed and the kind of qualities it takes to be a good defender these days. So much offense is now generated from defense that the old rules about what it takes to be a key defender don't hold up the way they once did. And these changes have come quickly. Increasingly you see smaller, more agile defenders, matched up on big forwards and getting them on the counterattack with pace. Bombing the ball into a contest to a tall forward near the goal square doesn't seem to pay off they way it once did.

Watching the ressies video I was very impressed with the way Harry Marsh, Nic Newman and Colin O'Riordan play the game with pace and skill. All are shorter than what would be considered key defender height. We can add Gary Rohan to the list, although he didn't play very long this week. I don't know how any of them will go at AFL level, but for the sake of argument say they can bring their ressies form to senior level. I can see a back 7 of Smith, Rohan, Rampe, Marsh, Newman, O'Riordan and Laidler doing fine. Doesn't look right, does it? These guys would probably get beaten a few times in marking contests with big forwards, but may be more than compensated by the what they offer on the rebound.

The post Ted-Reg error may see a defense with a different look. I'm fairly certain that Abe Davis will make a good forward and free up Reid to play defence if need be. We may not need more than Talia and Reid to be our KPDs and I think they more fit the mould of the modern KPD. It's still too early to say if XR, AA or Melican will be good enough to make the grade. But even if they don't, I still think we should have enough on our list at present to form a good defence going forward.

I would nonetheless still be looking for a tall with our first rounder this year. Maybe a tall utility would be okay. It's a bit early to make those calls right now.

[ugg]

[Ludwig]

Really impressed with Kyle Galloway. Doesn't give away any silly free kicks like so many young players do. His hair still looks perfect at the end of the game as it does in the 1st Qtr. I was wondering how I would cope if TD were lured away by Collingwood, but I think that problem may have been solved.

[aardvark]

Really impressed with Kyle Galloway. Doesn't give away any silly free kicks like so many young players do. His hair still looks perfect at the end of the game as it does in the 1st Qtr. I was wondering how I would cope if TD were lured away by Collingwood, but I think that problem may have been solved.

It takes a huge amount of skill and ability to avoid doing anything for the whole game.

[barry]

Harry taylor was taken 1 pick ahead of Alex Rance (17th and 18th) overall. Not a great draft for Sydney with our first two picks Patrick Veszpremi and Brett Meredith followed up by Craig Bird. Our entire draft from 2007 is no longer with us.

2007 AFL draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Taylor played as a forward prior to drafting.

[dejavoodoo44]

It takes a huge amount of skill and ability to avoid doing anything for the whole game.

No stats for the whole game!?? Maybe a goalpost went down and he stepped in to fill the breach?

[ugg]

Sometimes it's hard to tell from the stream but I'm pretty sure he wasn't on the field from the 2nd quarter onwards. Either that or he did a very good job of hiding his 200+cm frame in our forward line.

[56-14]

It's on live stream and hence also available for replay

How do I access replay?