3 match finals series

[barry]

Despite all the wild gnashing of teeth about Spotless holding a prelim, it seems to be the exact right size.
Was about 1800 tickets left after Tuesday, and that is slowly whittling down to 700 left yesterday.

No one who wanted to go has missed out.
No way they would have got a bigger crowd at ANZ or SCG.
A full Spotless will provide infinitly better atmosphere than half empty SCG, or 1/4 full ANZ.

Ironic that a ticket to this prelim costs more than most Giants memberships. lol.

[Mug Punter]

Thats a fair summary. But a new club from stratch needs concessions. Impossible to start without them.

I happen to think the concessions to GC and GWS were about right for start up, and comparable to WC, Adelaide.
Certainly a lot better the Brisbane Bears and Swans. This is good, those were stuff ups. If they repeated it again, it would be stupid.

The fact that GC and GWS have take such different paths show that concessions on their own get you no where. good manangement is the key. Give credit where credit's due.

I agree that the AFL had to err on the side of generosity with the new clubs. And I don't think it is fair to compare their concessions to what happened in SA/WA because they were established football states with a strong local league to mine (even with the second tranche of Port and Freo), solid supporter base and a local pathway that pretty much ensured they'd be competitive in 3-4 years.

The better comparison is the Brisbane Bears and how they fared and there was no point having two new teams if they weren't competitive. Having said that this still creates a nightmare situation for the AFL when they are underwriting GWS to the tune of millions a years. Then again I guess if anyone can handle a conflict of interest it is Mike Fitzpatrick

[KTigers]

There is a link to an interesting piece regarding AFL club finances on the RWO General Footy Chat board. It's from a site called HPN. I'm sure some RWOers may have read it already, but if not it's definitely worth a read. I've pasted the paragraph dealing with misconceptions over AFL funding of the expansion clubs below.

Extra AFL support for the expansion sides is usually wildly overstated
Often reported as ?pouring over 20 million dollars in? by the AFL or ?subsidised over 100m dollars? since inception, the truer picture of the AFL?s current extra support for GWS is currently 3-5 million extra dollars per year, when compared to other small teams like St Kilda or the Bulldogs. It?s important to note that half the money that the Giants receive is the standard allotment for all clubs. And it?s perhaps even more important to note that this TV deal is as large as it is thanks in part to the existence of a 9th game and two teams in each mainland state. Furthermore, as small clubs, GWS and Gold Coast would be getting a few extra million dollars in equalisation funding regardless of their status as expansion clubs.

[Thunder Shaker]

The media will then go into BS overdrive above how "brave" the bulldogs were. How unjust the league is. How plastic GWS is. How few fans they have, blah, blah, blah. Here's the tip bulldogs, if you want a serious crack at a flag, finish top 4 or even better top 2.

This is the conventional wisdom, but the Dogs have not had a conventional season. They had a spate of injuries mid-season and dropped a game or two, but despite that they finished only two games and percentage off top spot. In some years that is enough for a top-4 finish. This year, they were a game behind sixth. This year has had the closest spread of top teams since 1993.

By winning their semi final, the Dogs have the same chance of making the Grand Final as a top four side that loses in the first week and ends up travelling interstate for the preliminary. They are also up against the Giants, a young side whose finals credentials are still being established. Both sides are full of young players who have limited experience of a finals campaign, in the case of the Giants, none at all. The Dogs' defence will struggle to contain the Giants' tall forwards, but I suspect their preliminary final will be like a war of attrition in the midfield with young bodies tiring after a long season.

[Mug Punter]

This is the conventional wisdom, but the Dogs have not had a conventional season. They had a spate of injuries mid-season and dropped a game or two, but despite that they finished only two games and percentage off top spot. In some years that is enough for a top-4 finish. This year, they were a game behind sixth. This year has had the closest spread of top teams since 1993.

By winning their semi final, the Dogs have the same chance of making the Grand Final as a top four side that loses in the first week and ends up travelling interstate for the preliminary. They are also up against the Giants, a young side whose finals credentials are still being established. Both sides are full of young players who have limited experience of a finals campaign, in the case of the Giants, none at all. The Dogs' defence will struggle to contain the Giants' tall forwards, but I suspect their preliminary final will be like a war of attrition in the midfield with young bodies tiring after a long season.

I hope I am wrong but I can see GWS blowing the Doggies off the park

[barry]

Gws have also said that there sponsorship is full. Had to close it a few weeks ago.

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[barry]

There is a link to an interesting piece regarding AFL club finances on the RWO General Footy Chat board. It's from a site called HPN. I'm sure some RWOers may have read it already, but if not it's definitely worth a read. I've pasted the paragraph dealing with misconceptions over AFL funding of the expansion clubs below.

Extra AFL support for the expansion sides is usually wildly overstated
Often reported as ?pouring over 20 million dollars in? by the AFL or ?subsidised over 100m dollars? since inception, the truer picture of the AFL?s current extra support for GWS is currently 3-5 million extra dollars per year, when compared to other small teams like St Kilda or the Bulldogs. It?s important to note that half the money that the Giants receive is the standard allotment for all clubs. And it?s perhaps even more important to note that this TV deal is as large as it is thanks in part to the existence of a 9th game and two teams in each mainland state. Furthermore, as small clubs, GWS and Gold Coast would be getting a few extra million dollars in equalisation funding regardless of their status as expansion clubs.

If that is true then the net cost of the giants and suns to the comp is zero.

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[KTigers]

Both Prelims are very hard to pick. As they usually are. I am leaning slightly towards an all Sydney GF. I think we've had Geelong's measure
the last few years. We've really gotten hold of them a few times recently.
Pound for pound, GWS are a better team than the Dogs and if they all "turn up" they should win, as the Dogs may tire in the latter stages.
It will be a brutal game as both teams have a bunch of guys with no regard for their own personal safety.

[KTigers]

Well, I'm just putting in the quote from this other article that basically states the Suns & Giants are only receiving $3M to $5M a year more in funding from the AFL than the Bulldogs and St Kilda are receiving. I'm not sure where that writer gets his info from. But assuming it's correct and taking into account that the new TV rights deal is worth $418M a year, and the previous deal was worth $250M a year then you could almost argue that the AFL is actually coming out ahead.
Obviously some of the extra $168M a year the AFL is getting is due to inflation, but a sizeable piece will be because there are nine games a week & not eight. People on this forum keep talking about how the Swans are possibly waiting on the new pay deal to work out if they can offer Tom Mitchell more money, but the reason there is a new pay deal is coming is because there is more money flowing to the AFL from things like the TV deal. So all the players benefit from the new teams coming into the comp ie guys at Port Adelaide will get paid more because the Suns and Giants exist.
All the clubs receive substantial amounts of money from the AFL, as they should. And these amounts seem to change very often depending on the clubs circumstances.

If that is true then the net cost of the giants and suns to the comp is zero.

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[barry]

Maybe I read it differently to some, but whenever I hear of an attack on GWS, I take it as an attack on Sydney AFL in general.
I think this is a reality.

McChins may decide to take swipe at the academy, and picks the easiest target of riverina. But if it wasnt riverina, it would be something else.

I hope for an all-Sydney grand final.
Vic's can go f themselves.

[baskin]

Despite all the wild gnashing of teeth about Spotless holding a prelim, it seems to be the exact right size.
Was about 1800 tickets left after Tuesday, and that is slowly whittling down to 700 left yesterday.

No one who wanted to go has missed out.
No way they would have got a bigger crowd at ANZ or SCG.
A full Spotless will provide infinitly better atmosphere than half empty SCG, or 1/4 full ANZ.

Ironic that a ticket to this prelim costs more than most Giants memberships. lol.

I believe there would have been more Bulldogs supporters attending if the game was somewhere bigger.
I live in Bulldog territory and many of my friends didn't try for tickets. All the talk about how few tickets were available, and that the greater number would be for GWS members stopped them trying. As they weren't guaranteed a ticket they didn't try booking travel & accomodation in case they were left high & dry.
A bit like some of our supporters trying to attend the Swans game in Hobart.

[Mel_C]

I hope for an all-Sydney grand final.
Vic's can go f themselves.

It would be interesting to see the reaction if this happens. Some of my relatives on the weekend said that an all Sydney grand final WOULDN'T be good for football. And there also has been some rumblings on radio and the paper that it's the AFL's dream for this to happen as we are both the love child of the AFL.

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[KTigers]

They can buy tickets right now if they want. It's still not sold out.

I believe there would have been more Bulldogs supporters attending if the game was somewhere bigger.
I live in Bulldog territory and many of my friends didn't try for tickets. All the talk about how few tickets were available, and that the greater number would be for GWS members stopped them trying. As they weren't guaranteed a ticket they didn't try booking travel & accomodation in case they were left high & dry.
A bit like some of our supporters trying to attend the Swans game in Hobart.

[barry]

I believe there would have been more Bulldogs supporters attending if the game was somewhere bigger.
I live in Bulldog territory and many of my friends didn't try for tickets. All the talk about how few tickets were available, and that the greater number would be for GWS members stopped them trying. As they weren't guaranteed a ticket they didn't try booking travel & accomodation in case they were left high & dry.
A bit like some of our supporters trying to attend the Swans game in Hobart.

Sounds like BS baskin. If these supporters really wanted to go, they could.
At only 8000 travelling dogs fans, rest assured, a city the size of Sydney will still have plenty of accomodation options available.

- - - Updated - - -

It would be interesting to see the reaction if this happens. Some of my relatives on the weekend said that an all Sydney grand final WOULDN'T be good for football. And there also has been some rumblings on radio and the paper that it's the AFL's dream for this to happen as we are both the love child of the AFL.

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It wouldnt be good for Victorian football.
It would be great for NSW football.
It wouldnt make a difference to SA, WA, QLD, Tas football.

[Thunder Shaker]

I hope I am wrong but I can see GWS blowing the Doggies off the park

That is a possibility; the Dogs lost to GWS by 25 points when they met earlier in the year. I expect the Giants to win against the Dogs but it's not a sure thing.

The counterargument is what the Dogs did to Hawthorn. The Dogs snapped an 8-game losing streak going back to 2010. Any team that snaps losing streaks against opponents in finals are not teams to be taken lightly. When we won the flag in 2012, we overcame recent poor form against Adelaide (2-12 since 2002) Collingwood (11 losses since 2006) and at the MCG (1-1-13 since 2007). Our 2012 premiership showed that past form means nothing in finals. If the Dogs get to the Grand Final against Geelong, they also have an unbroken 10-game losing streak against Geelong. The Dogs have won their last two against us.