2017 NEW team list

[Ludwig]

Statistically you would say the GWS Giants and The Bulldogs are more balanced for their window of opportunity in 2017 but I say beware the Bloods

For list quality, it's hard to go past the Giants. They've got excellent balance, a good age demographic and depth in every position.

The Bulldogs list is good, but not up the level of the Giants. Their success comes from everyone buying in to the Luke Beverage high intensity contested game plan that in the end wore us down in GF. Unless Tim English becomes a star, they haven't improved their list in the off season. Nonetheless, when you play like the Bulldogs, the onus is with the other clubs to find a way to beat them. It's hard to do unless you're willing to go as hard as they are.

Last year was a surprise in the way we were able to introduce so many young players into the side. We continue to improve and get a younger list demographic at the same time, something which is not easy to do. We are getting younger and faster, and hopefully more skillful too. We have several players who will push for senior selection as well as a few key players returning from injury. We enter the 2017 season with every chance to once again challenge for a premiership.

[bloodspirit]

I can't believe GWS are now the second oldest list! That's amazing. I reckon we'll go alright next year but GWS will be the ones to beat, which will be hard to take. Their list is formidable. It would not surprise to see them really dominate.

[Faunac8]

Slightly different tables but a little bit easier to compare here
How experienced is your list? | Zero Hanger
Testament to the quality of our list that we made a grand final with such a young and inexperienced list although there is less than a year in average age between the 2nd and 17th ranked teams indicating a fairly standard list profile for most of the competition.
Looking forward to more GF visits in the coming years.
Now if we can only get over the mental hurdle that seem to afflict us

[rojo]

Maybe in the excitement of the impact of the newbies this year we don't give enough credit to our senior bunch. Led by Macca and KJ, along with Reg, Smithy, Buddy, Joey and Hanners and backed up by Rampie and Parks they did a mighty job across the season especially on field. We lost the GF but if you watch the first 3 quarters again our team played great football that day and were right there until the last 5-10 mins. despite Macca and Mills not being match fit and Buddy hampered.

We are going to have that solid core again along with KT, and their load will be made easier by the 7 young 'stars' having the experience of this year. Add in Lloyd, Rohan and Reid and we have one powerful unit! Then we have 14 players who will be pushing hard for a spot and who knows what the draftees and rookies may bring to the table.

[mcs]

For list quality, it's hard to go past the Giants. They've got excellent balance, a good age demographic and depth in every position.

The Bulldogs list is good, but not up the level of the Giants. Their success comes from everyone buying in to the Luke Beverage high intensity contested game plan that in the end wore us down in GF. Unless Tim English becomes a star, they haven't improved their list in the off season. Nonetheless, when you play like the Bulldogs, the onus is with the other clubs to find a way to beat them. It's hard to do unless you're willing to go as hard as they are.

Last year was a surprise in the way we were able to introduce so many young players into the side. We continue to improve and get a younger list demographic at the same time, something which is not easy to do. We are getting younger and faster, and hopefully more skillful too. We have several players who will push for senior selection as well as a few key players returning from injury. We enter the 2017 season with every chance to once again challenge for a premiership.

I think the Dogs will come back to earth next year. Like Leicester City, 2016 proved to be a 'perfect storm' for them to win the Flag. Other teams will find ways to combat their style, the umpires might be encouraged to not be so lenient when it matters next year, and as you say they haven't improved their list significantly. I think they'll still be a very good team, but I don't think they'll be so lucky in 2017 with everything falling into place.

GWS are going to be awfully tough to beat for any team. But we will be up there again, assuming a good run with injuries, and while Tom Mitchell is a loss, there is plenty of young, quality players that will only get better. And frankly, how many teams have the luxury of losing a high quality midfielder like Mitchell knowing they have two under-age midfield guns just waiting for their opportunity in the guts.

Bring on 2017 - it is a huge year for us I feel, as we need to deliver when it matters and bring home that Cup. Otherwise there is a real possibility that what could have been a truly golden era (not to say it hasn't been an amazing period in the club's history) will not reach the heights it should.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Run and carry has been discussed a few times now briefly by horse and KB and our search to find a few more players with this ability to compliment the team we currently have

We have all watched the ability of GWS with their run and carry out of their backline and wings via Williams, Wilson, Lachie etc and the same again with the Bulldogs and their run and carry HBF Johansen winning best player on the ground in the grand final

Interestingly we haven't chased a trade in this area so there is no genuine AFL HBF player with run and carry joining us

yet listening to Horse talk about Shaun Edwards yesterday and watching the development of a player such as Jordan Dawson I can't help but think we would be a a better side if we can match in rebound against the Dogs, GWS when needed

The flexibility of transitions from our backline requires one or two extra genuine outside players who can run and carry

These two players might need to be carried a little for half the season but we did this successfully in 2016 by allowing some newbies to play simple roles and bit by bit they developed to a strong standard

For me I think our evolving game plan and our ability to be more flexible and attacking with our transitions requires two or three fairly one dimensional players to be dropped and two minimum attacking players to be added

Under pressure = Laidler, Towers, Hewett and potentially Macca which is a massive call but Jarrod in my opinion will be under pressure middle of the season if we do evolve in our game plan to play with some more rebounding width

Potential in =

COMPOSED Attacking players with the football with the ability to run and carry

Edwards
Dawson
Florent

I have seen much of Edwards but they have talked about getting him on board already for this reason

Also As we saw with Malceski you don't need to be super quick as a run and carry player IF u have time with the football

Florent and Dawson certainly have this and there is no reason that we can't have HFF pushing up the field to HBF / Wing regions to open up the space and provide better forward entries

I feel After watching our losses last year and weakness in rebound having Rampe and or Zac Jones as our run and carry is not enough to genuinely take on the Dogs and GWS

[liz]

Newman, COR and Leonardis are three more who might come in and provide some of that outside run. I realise all are completely untested at senior level but they all showed pleasing signs in the NEAFL last year. Leonardis is probably the least celebrated (on here, at least) of the trio, but his improvement throughout last season impressed me. His defensive work (especially his tackling) was one particular area where he showed major improvement as the year wore on.

[bloodspirit]

I partially agree, Auntie. I perhaps don't see the need as being as pressing as you do - we did after all manage to be minor premiers and grand finalists last season and should be stronger in the season ahead thanks to the experience our squad gained (albeit the competition will be stronger too).

I agree Laidler will be under pressure. He already was at the end of last season. He is a good player but with limitations and run and carry is not his thing. I agree that Hewett is under pressure in that he needs to lift his game above where it was last season but he is young and I expect him to do this - last year was his first ever season at senior level. He brings a lot of great attributes: tough, skilful, disciplined, smart, can kick on both sides. Whereas while Laidler can continue to improve you would expect less rapid further development as he is more mature and has done the bulk of his improvement already.

I can also see Macca coming under pressure as the season rolls along, especially if he is stripped of the captaincy. We need him to transfer his leadership skills and effectively groom his successors to point fingers in his absence. His ability to influence a match is diminishing and so perhaps is his consistency. I say that with great respect and also with a bit of a caveat because injury made it hard for him last season and if he has a good run with injury he could have a better year in 2017.

This morning I woke up feeling a little bit optimistic about Towers after being ready to write him off last season. He is someone that is capable of running and carrying. He has a lot of talent and is evidently trying really hard, evidenced by his 6th place finish in the time trial. His problems seem to be more mental and psychological. I don't think he has a great footy brain so I can't see him ever becoming a great player (I wish this didn't sound so harsh - not everyone can be "great") but if he can really believe in himself and have confidence, he can still become a valuable role player for us, at least until someone else (Dawson? Edwards? Fisher? BJ??) overtakes him.

I don't think Florent is ready for senior footy and I don't see him getting many, if any, games next season. Hopefully he's going to be a wonderful addition for us but he is going to need a one or two pre-seasons and seasons in the magoos to build strength (less sure whether he needs to build his tank - he's already run a 15 beep test I think). Probably the same for Hayward, especially with Dawson in front of him playing a similar role. I'm so stoked that Dawson finished in front of Rampe and Lloyd in the time trial - amazing effort. I'm thinking they have only just returned from their off seasons and may improve over the pre-season. But if Dawson can hold his position in the top 10 of the time trial, that definitely bodes well for his season. If he's doing the other things the coaches are asking of him (defensively or whatever) then I can definitely see him getting games this season.

Someone who is overlooked is Leonardis. I'm not really sure how he's tracking and what he needs to work on before he gets a game but he is an attacking player with the ability to run and carry of the HBF I reckon. Would be excellent to see him come on and develop in to the player we are hoping he can be for us.

p.s. Thank you, Liz - I totally overlooked O'Riordan! And he is the player I am most looking excited to seeing getting a game this year (after AJ!!!!). He is the goods! And he can totally run and carry.

[jono2707]

Why is Hewitt 'under pressure'? He had a very good first year and you'd expect plenty of improvement in a young guy like him. Pretty harsh....

[bloodspirit]

Well, I've seen a number of posters question his place in the 22 and his output did fade at the back of last season (perhaps with injury or exhaustion). However, I'm a fan and don't want to see him relegated to the twos nor do I think he should be. As I've said, it was only his first season at senior level and I think he'll come back refreshed after an off-season and pre-season, improved as a player and fully deserving of his spot.

[liz]

Why is Hewitt 'under pressure'? He had a very good first year and you'd expect plenty of improvement in a young guy like him. Pretty harsh....

I think he's under pressure to the extent he's not really a natural forward and there are a fair few others in the squad who look set to challenge for a medium forward role (eg Dawson, Rose, maybe Hayward). He should be vying with Mills, Foote, Heeney et al for an opportunity to fill the midfield void left by Mitchell. Will he step up enough to play a more significant role in the midfield or will others grab the opportunity?

[Ludwig]

Having a sort of 'designated' run and carry player out of the backline is not necessarily the answer to getting more drive from defence. It's more of a label that gets placed on the player that makes it happen most often, like Johannisen or Rhyce Shaw or Heath Shaw. But they are all helped by having several attacking players so oppositions can't focus on one player.

The Bulldogs are very good a switching play quickly and finding players on the opposite side of the ground when play closes down on one side. The Giants have a bevy of good runners so it's difficult to concentrate on a single player, although tagging Heath Shaw seems to be effective at times. Malceski and Jetta gave Rhyce more freedom to take the game on for us, in all were willing runners.

Our defence was truly a work in progress last year and will continue on this year. I've got my tentative back 7 as Reg, Talia, Aliir, Rampe, Smith, Newman and Jones. As a group they are quicker and have more of an attacking mindset than the variety of options last year. Talia has medium pace, but likes to attack. I thought Jones did very well taking the game on under pressure, very much in the mould of a Rhyce Shaw. Newman is quick, can run and is a good kick. I've compared his game to Malceski in the past, although we can only guess at this stage how close he can get to that level. Newman can also take the kick ins, which he usually did for the Reserves. We saw what excitement Aliir adds to the back line and if we could have a big strong defender like Talia taking a key forward, that should release both Aliir and Rampe to take on more attacking roles.

I think we once hoped that Towers would become a HBF, but he's not that kind of player at AFL level, unless he turns into a tackling machine and learns to read the play better. I doubt it would happen. If Dawson, Rose or Hayward can play a part in the Forward line, then Rohan can become a HB option, who can give us genuine breakaway speed out of defence. I don't think it will happen, but it's an option.

It is more that the Swans as a team that is in transition to having a quicker style of game plan when we were previously viewed as a stoppage type team. I said many times that I suspected we low-balled our salary offer to Tom Mitchell to trade him out in a respectful manner in order to push along this process. I have a tentative starting 21 and lots of candidates for that last spot, McVeigh being one of them, but not at the top of the list. I think he's a very competent depth player now, but not one that fits well with the direction the Swans are taking.

We just drafted a bevy of good runners to add to the ones already pushing for selection this year. The pace of the team as a whole will continue increase as more of these players make the senior side.

[Mountain Man]

I still think Lloyd is one key to the run out of defence. His 'gut running' to good positions is enormous so he provides an alternative to a 'break the lines' runner.

[S.S. Bleeder]

This is what Gary Buckenara said about Hayward and Florent: "I wouldn't expect he or Florent to play much next year..."

Buckenara also said this:
QUESTION FROM STUART: How do you feel the Swans went? They look to be picking forwards and backs. Do you think this is because of Mills and Heeney?
I don't think it's because of Mills and Heeney, it's because it's a structural need. I think the Swans have done a good job in the draft in addressing the needs that could be a problem. I definitely like the strategy of getting Darcy Cameron from Claremont as the back-up ruckman. It won't surprise me if he becomes their No.1 ruckman.

That's a very big statement. I would suggest that he isn't even aware that Naismith exists.

[Billericay]

That's a very big statement. I would suggest that he [Buckenara] isn't even aware that Naismith exists.

That would surely require Buckenara didn't watch the AFL grand final. Could he actually rate Cameron as highly as Naismith?