Changes for Round 4 - West Coast

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  • 111431
    Regular in the Side
    • Sep 2010
    • 697

    Originally posted by liz
    For all his failure to deliver consistently at senior level, I believe Cunningham is a far better option than Jack. Jack doesn't get the ball much at senior level (and he is usually asked to play a very different role to that at NEAFL level). And Cunningham can kick the ball reasonably well.
    I agree with this - his kicking and pace s/be good for Subiaco

    Comment

    • rb4x
      Regular in the Side
      • Dec 2007
      • 968

      We have replaced Naismith at 206cm with Papley at 177cm. Tom is only 29cm shorter than Naismith with I guess shorter arms as well so I am thinking he may struggle a little with his ruck duties. He has also had no pre season or match practice and has just been taken off the long term injury list so his fitness might also be suspect. Horse might I respectfully suggest that he is not exactly an ideal replacement.

      Is there a problem with one of our talls such that we have needed to elevate Melican to the senior list as an emergency. Talls in the side are Sinclair and Franklin at 199cm, Reid at 196cm, Aliir at 194cm then Grundy at 192cm. Melican at 193cm along with Pink is the next tallest player on our list. Is he our emergency ruckman if Sinclair drops out before the game?

      Comment

      • 111431
        Regular in the Side
        • Sep 2010
        • 697

        Originally posted by Billericay
        If the Swans win tonight, I wouldn't be surprised. But to do so, our midfield needs to lift. I'm just not sure how much it can lift until we get Heeney and a ruckman back?
        our midfield will determine whether we win or lose - half of them haven't fired a shot yet

        Comment

        • mattybloods
          Warming the Bench
          • Jul 2016
          • 482

          Originally posted by rb4x
          We have replaced Naismith at 206cm with Papley at 177cm. Tom is only 29cm shorter than Naismith with I guess shorter arms as well so I am thinking he may struggle a little with his ruck duties
          Bold move from Horse, hopefully it pays off

          Comment

          • dimelb
            pr. dim-melb; m not f
            • Jun 2003
            • 6889

            Originally posted by Mel_C
            Was just told that Jeffrey is one of the umpires. Let's see how he can screw us over this time!

            Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
            Why doesn't Horse just give the umps a tingle and find out what is the Rule du jour, as other clubs have done?
            He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

            Comment

            • ScottH
              It's Goodes to cheer!!
              • Sep 2003
              • 23665

              Originally posted by dimelb
              Why doesn't Horse just give the umps a tingle and find out what is the Rule du jour, as other clubs have done?


              Rule du jour in the West or for everyone??

              Comment

              • Ludwig
                Veterans List
                • Apr 2007
                • 9359

                Originally posted by mattybloods
                Such a young team, pressure is off so time for the kids to give it a crack! Games like this one you find out what the next generation of players is made of. Fringe players like Cunningham, Sinclair and Foote have a chance to prove us all wrong.

                I think I'll enjoy this season much more when we're no longer a top 4 possibility
                It's a luxury of sorts that we rarely have, the opportunity to experiment because the odds of winning are low enough so some strategic thinking can be put into action. Like the rest of us, I'm not happy that things have gone poorly for us so early in the season, but at least Longmire is using the adversity to gain some long term advantage.


                Originally posted by bloodspirit

                Clearly this is why Horse likes having a full stable of rucks. If Ludwig were in charge we would be recalling Towers purely for his rucking ability. Ludwig just doesn't take rucking seriously which is why he's such a Tdx fan. What a bummer for Cameron just when he would almost certainly have got a jumper.
                The ruckman is a solitary position, so if the ruckman is a central part of the game plan and something goes wrong, as it has, and all too often does, then there is very little that can be done to fix it. It's not like losing a midfielder, where there are plenty on the list to fill the role. There are enough examples of teams playing just as well without a recognised ruckman as with one. When Port Adelaide had to play Jackson Trengove in the ruck last year, they lost the hitouts, but they had more overall success moving the ball forward and created more scoring opportunities. The Bulldogs have often played with makeshift ruckmen.

                I actually do think that the best position for Towers is a ruckman. He can make a contest in the ruck by making up for his height with his jumping ability and breaks away from the congestion well. It's a shame his decision making is so poor. Perhaps the simplicity of the ruck role could be his salvation.

                Liz commented that Edwards' kicking wasn't all that flash, something I hadn't noticed. But he would be another player I would consider for contesting in the ruck for generally the reasons as with Towers.

                One has to look beyond the ruck contests and determine how a player effects the overall performance of the team. Once a stoppage is over there's a lot of footy going on and it is valid to ask whether the team would be better served by having an extra midfielder on the ground instead of a lumbering ruckman, especially one that can't take a mark.

                Comment

                • Mr Magoo
                  Senior Player
                  • May 2008
                  • 1255

                  Originally posted by Meg
                  Yes, it seems to be fashionable not to contest the ruck on occasion. Apparently Sandilands got so confused when no one went up against him one time he punched the ball OOB and gave away a free kick.

                  Couldn't do it every time though or even the dumbest ruck opponent would get the hang of punching the ball halfway to the goal square.
                  Its coaches taking advantage of a number of rule changes . You will notice that teams are sometimes going with no ruckmen when the ball up is close to their goal . Its pretty smart when you think about :
                  1. You cant punch through for a behind as it will be deliberate
                  2. If you take the ball the small person nominated will tackle you immediately and they will get a free kick in front of goal
                  3. If you hit towards the boundary you will be called deliberate and get a free kick within range of goal
                  4. If they hit to a player , they will either be wrapped up quickly in the congestion and be called for holding the ball or they wiill drop it and leave it at the mercy of the attacking team getting hold of it.

                  Therefore you ruckmen has very limited options :
                  1. Smash it forward with the likelihood that the attacking team will have set up around the fifty for the ball coming out
                  2. Hit it down and give it to a player under pressure who will kick it out under pressure to that same ring of attacking players.

                  This is why the AFL has to stop tinkering with the rules. While it may be deliberate on the part of the ruckman to smash it through it is not a tactic that could be used to keep rushing behinds and should be carved out from the deliberate rule , that way it will force the attacking team to contest the ruck as otherwise it will result in a behind that will enable the defensive team to reset and clear up the play. As with every rule change the smart coaches have worked out how to manipulate it so that now it is effectively no advantage to have a ruckman contesting near their defensive goal.

                  Comment

                  • CureTheSane
                    Carpe Noctem
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 5032

                    Originally posted by rb4x
                    Grundy at 192cm.
                    I never realised that Grundy was that tall.
                    Doesn't look it.
                    The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

                    Comment

                    • Markwebbos
                      Veterans List
                      • Jul 2016
                      • 7186

                      Surely this tactic has little to do with no third man up?

                      Comment

                      • mattybloods
                        Warming the Bench
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 482

                        Originally posted by Markwebbos
                        Surely this tactic has little to do with no third man up?
                        It's more that the other ruckman will know that no one has nominated to ruck opposite him and that he can do anything he wants (grab the ball out of the ruck, punch the ball to clear it etc)

                        Comment

                        • Markwebbos
                          Veterans List
                          • Jul 2016
                          • 7186

                          Originally posted by mattybloods
                          It's more that the other ruckman will know that no one has nominated to ruck opposite him and that he can do anything he wants (grab the ball out of the ruck, punch the ball to clear it etc)
                          Sorry I meant the tactic outlined by Mr Magoo of teams not contesting the ruck if it's close to their goal.

                          Comment

                          • Sandrevan
                            Warming the Bench
                            • May 2016
                            • 355

                            Umpires Scott Jeffery and Nick Foot are from Tasmania and Jeff Dalgleish is from WA although, as someone already mentioned he has a purple halo.

                            The game is not shown on FTA in Melbourne but will be on Foxtel. I would think it is being shown on FTA in WA can anyone confirm?

                            A loud, feral crowd with TV coverage in WA but not in Melbourne.

                            We're going in with only 1 ruckman - who can't catch a ball. The WCE's are going in with their 3rd ruckman.

                            Cunningham back in - WTF. If it's his job to tag Psycho Sammy - I can think of better options eg BJ or KJ

                            As much as I like Papley I have to wonder how much of a risk it is without much of a pre-season and no match fitness. Let's hope he can channel Cyril Rioli.

                            Sam Reid is going to have a very busy night; playing CHF, backup Ruckman and going back in defence because the free kick count will be 31-12 by the end.

                            I just hope the team has trained for the new HTB and prior opportunity rules - after so much discussion about it.

                            Some how, I'm looking forward to it and hoping we'll find a way to win.

                            Comment

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