Changes for Round 6 - CARLTON

[Mr Magoo]

I think you need to consider that most sides dont want their more skilful players playing ruck for any length of time as it is so physically demanding on the player. The swans quite outwardly said that with Goodes.

Unless all of the teams were prepared to go this way , you may find over the longer term that you start losing the smaller guys to injury from playing in the ruck all the time and shorten their careers. While it may be okay to stick say Alliir in their temporarily , I would fear that over time he will start getting banged around and eventually succumb.

Lets face it , the problem at the moment is not the fact that we dont have a suitable ruckmen , in fact Tippett was showing until he got injured last year that this was an ideal role for him , the reality is that :
1. We have no in form ruckmen - even Naismith was not setting the world on fire prior to his injury.
2. Our gun midfielders are sadly out of form - they look slow and are either injured or not prepared to run two ways. Parker , Hannabery and Jack are all at the moment shadows of their former selves.
3. Our next gen of players have not really lifted to the elite level at this stage (albeit a lot of that due to injury).
4. Our backline is sadly missing an organiser like McVeigh or Rampe.


At the end of last season I think we would have all expected :
1. Alliir to continue on with his form from last year - he was that important that many including myself thought he could have made the difference for us in the GF. From what I have seen this year , Longmire is right on the mark with him.
2. Papley , Mills , Heeney even Rohan to go up to that next level - obviously injuries haven't helped but they have not gone to that level at this stage.
3. Further improvement from Cunningham, Marsh , Robinson - not happened (albeit again some injury)

If I look at the team at this point of time the only player I can think off that has actually gone up a level is Jones and the only other good story is that Reid is showing the type of capability we all thought he had.

The younger guys like Hayward, Florent , Newman and Fox should just be handy editions to the above and last year the new guys were just that . Thats not the case at the moment, we are hoping that they will provide the difference and thats just not going to happen.

[O'Reilly Boy]

I suppose that this has sort of been covered, but I was feeling pretty annoyed that Jack had been selected for several weeks when he was obviously not fit. I know that most players are carrying niggles, and that they may, with the best of intentions, on occasion underplay their discomfort for the (perceived) benefit of the team, but I do think that the number of crook players we took into the GF last year was a real factor in our not being able to keep up with the Dogs in the last 10 minutes. I guess there is always the calculation of the benefits of playing a hobbled experience player on one hand and an inexperienced but fit player on the other, and those at the Club know what's going on better than I do, but it still is annoying. It makes me wonder about who else is carrying something serious. Clearly Parker is underdone, but there could be more to what is going on for him.
I have also been having dark thoughts about Tippett, a player who I have very much wanted to succeed. Watching GWS players scoot out of defence around him on the weekend was horrible; he cannot offer the kind of forward defensive pressure that is needed against teams with run and carry out of defence. At the same time, he is recovering from injury and is underdone, and when he is at his best (even his better) he shreds it (cf the first half of last season). I hope that he puts it together over the next three weeks, and that we can unburden the team of Sinclair.

[bloodspirit]

I think you need to consider that most sides dont want their more skilful players playing ruck for any length of time as it is so physically demanding on the player. The swans quite outwardly said that with Goodes.

Unless all of the teams were prepared to go this way , you may find over the longer term that you start losing the smaller guys to injury from playing in the ruck all the time and shorten their careers. While it may be okay to stick say Alliir in their temporarily , I would fear that over time he will start getting banged around and eventually succumb.

Lets face it , the problem at the moment is not the fact that we dont have a suitable ruckmen , in fact Tippett was showing until he got injured last year that this was an ideal role for him , the reality is that :
1. We have no in form ruckmen - even Naismith was not setting the world on fire prior to his injury.
2. Our gun midfielders are sadly out of form - they look slow and are either injured or not prepared to run two ways. Parker , Hannabery and Jack are all at the moment shadows of their former selves.
3. Our next gen of players have not really lifted to the elite level at this stage (albeit a lot of that due to injury).
4. Our backline is sadly missing an organiser like McVeigh or Rampe.


At the end of last season I think we would have all expected :
1. Alliir to continue on with his form from last year - he was that important that many including myself thought he could have made the difference for us in the GF. From what I have seen this year , Longmire is right on the mark with him.
2. Papley , Mills , Heeney even Rohan to go up to that next level - obviously injuries haven't helped but they have not gone to that level at this stage.
3. Further improvement from Cunningham, Marsh , Robinson - not happened (albeit again some injury)

If I look at the team at this point of time the only player I can think off that has actually gone up a level is Jones and the only other good story is that Reid is showing the type of capability we all thought he had.

The younger guys like Hayward, Florent , Newman and Fox should just be handy editions to the above and last year the new guys were just that . Thats not the case at the moment, we are hoping that they will provide the difference and thats just not going to happen.

Great post, Mr Magoo.

Lloyd and Hewett are two other players that have significantly stepped it up this year.

[Billericay]

I started thinking about how best to utilise the ruck position when Jason Blake at 189cm had to come in for STK and play in the ruck against us a few years back. I can't remember who we had as ruckmen that day, but we were soundly beaten. There are 3 ruckmen that have influenced my thinking in this area, Adam Goodes, Patrick Ryder and Stefan Martin. All 3 would be considered undersized for a ruckman, but are able to do things around the ground which make them so valuable compared to your average ruckman...

Ludwig that's a very interesting and insightful post. Why not play Buddy in the ruck, he'd be a nightmare matchup. I think because Mr Magoo is right, you don't want your really good players in the ruck as they get damaged.

Tippett is seriously out of form / confidence and that's creating a huge problem, when you compare his performance v Mummy on Saturday to the game he got injured in last year (when it wa the other way around). So is the absence of a decent second ruck. Sinclair is also a liability. I would be inclined to force Tippett to ruck on his own and have a stable of pinch hitters including Reid and Aliir supporting him.

It's a hard position to fill, you want someone tall but exceptionally mobile like a Buddy or a Goodesy, but if you have someone that good, you don't want to risk playing them in the ruck. The alternative would be someone like a Sam Jacobs, Todd Goldstein type that can ruck on their own all day, so you only have to have one player that can ruck. I can see the appeal of going for a tall athlete and trying to turn them into a ruckman, like Mike Pyke.

[Billericay]

Great post, Mr Magoo.

Lloyd and Hewett are two other players that have significantly stepped it up this year.

If you look at the list of players Mr Magoo would expect improvement from: Aliir, Papley, Mills, Heeney, Rohan, Cunningham, Marsh, Robinson. There are only 3 Mills, Cunningham, Marsh who haven't been injured.

This might be controversial, but I think Cunningham has improved since he was dropped. He's been our top tackler the last 2 weeks and seems to be working hard on the defensive side of his game. And I think we saw the first signs of improvement from Mills against GWS. Marsh it's hard to judge given how much more defending we've had to do in 2017 than in 2016 and how poorly some of our "reliable" defensive stalwarts have performed under the additional pressure. Not fair to judge him on the decision to make him play on Cameron.

[chuckie]

I think we have had a couple of players step up this year but overall we look like a broken team with no spirit.
Why don't we just take the game on and back our players to beat their opponents and then when we do go forward we have a forward line there that maybe able to kick some goals.
I think we are the 2017 version of last years Freo and will struggle to win more than 5 games if we can only kick 10 goals in a match we no longer have the capabilities to restrict teams to less than that.

[rb4x]

If you look through our team list you can see that just about the entire team is either recovering from an injury last year, has had an injury this year or is presently injured and that is only the injuries that we know about. The Swans are very coy about releasing their full injury list, possibly because they do not want other teams to know our weakness and target it. Back in 2005 we had Dave Misson responsible for our fitness and conditioning and we had a team that sustained very few injuries. He unfortunately moved to Melbourne and since then our injury toll has risen and this year quite dramatically so. In my experience players who are not fully 100% fit tend to get injured more often and more seriously. I question whether our fitness and conditioning program is of the standard required to minimise injuries. The only two outs that I would not consider fitness contributing to are Heeney and Rampe. Even a fitter Rampe might have been able to jump that little chain.

[Ludwig]

I don't know why we are taking 2 ruckmen into the game when Carlton are only taking one in Kreuzer, especially when both our ruckmen deserved to be dropped on form alone. Carlton are also playing 4 KPDs and are more likely to be exposed by playing a smaller forward line.

Joking aside, I had a lot of hope for BJ a couple of years ago and thought with more experience he would improve his decision making and ball use. Most of his game is pretty good. I hope this chance sees the penny drop for him and he thinks his way through situations and puts in a good show. He speed gives him more time and space than most players and he should utilise it to take that split second of time to choose the best option.


Note on ruckmen comments: If we had a strategy of not playing a genuine ruckman, our entire approach to the stoppages would change. Buddy has rucked in a few stoppages. If we don't want players injured by bigger ruckmen, we simply don't engage with them physically. One strategy could be to have our ruckman defend one side of the contest and defend against hitouts on that side only. Our other players at the stoppage would then defend the other side of contest. The general strategy would be to expect losing the hitout, but recover the ball on a quick turnover, using our advantage of having a more mobile setup at stoppages and mixing up our tactics with set plays.

[wolftone57]

I started thinking about how best to utilise the ruck position when Jason Blake at 189cm had to come in for STK and play in the ruck against us a few years back. I can't remember who we had as ruckmen that day, but we were soundly beaten. There are 3 ruckmen that have influenced my thinking in this area, Adam Goodes, Patrick Ryder and Stefan Martin. All 3 would be considered undersized for a ruckman, but are able to do things around the ground which make them so valuable compared to your average ruckman. [Quote Ludwig]

i wouldn't exactly call Paddy or Stefan undersized. Mummy (198) is smaller than Stefan (199) and Paddy is (197). Goodes is only (191) that is different.

[wolftone57]

I understand his disposal is not elite but not many of our mids are elite at getting rid of it by foot especially. If he is on the list someone must rate him after this many years. His pace certainly won't hurt either.

I'm not having a go at him just saying his disposal is not quite up to AFL standard. If he took the time, with with his pace he has got, to look up, pick a target then slow down and steady before kicking. Then he might hit targets. he doesn't have to slow much just enough to steady. I have been saying this for three years. I hope he gets it soon. Maybe some help from Kirky.

[wolftone57]

Another that could threaten BJ's spot when he's next available is Fox.

Incidentally, we haven't yet seen much of him, but Ronke may be another player who can get his hands on the ball. Potentially he could one day be one of our inside mids.

I agree. The kid is hard. he never gives up and is really fast. Express fast.

[caj23]

The amount of Brandon Jack hate is extremely puzzling

He's had minimal opportunities, and didn't even play a game last year. It seems to be the longer he hasn't played the worse he is.

In 2015 in particular he was actually pretty good playing predominately forward, and that was when he was usually subbed on or off during a game.

I don't believe his disposal is as bad as everyone is making out, and if he can use his pace effectively its a weapon we are sorely missing.

I'm hoping there'll be a few on here eating humble pie in the coming weeks

[wolftone57]

Charlie Curnow is a star in the making; saw him against Port, lots of overhead marks and a big body making things happen.

We should recruit him or someone like him ASAP, Reid just does not compare to him.

Forget Curnow. Toby Pink will be just as good when he develops his body. Only 18 and skinny yet he managed to kick 6 goals against Southport and 2 last week. makes a contest every time, second & third efforts, is very good at ground level, blocking and can take a great mark and kick goals. What more do you want. just give him a pre-season in the gym. Oh I forgot! He can ruck. Only 193cm so Ludwig would love him.

[Sandrevan]

I think we have had a couple of players step up this year but overall we look like a broken team with no spirit.
Why don't we just take the game on and back our players to beat their opponents and then when we do go forward we have a forward line there that maybe able to kick some goals.
I think we are the 2017 version of last years Freo and will struggle to win more than 5 games if we can only kick 10 goals in a match we no longer have the capabilities to restrict teams to less than that.

I agree with your points here. I've been thinking our fall from grace is very similar to Freo last year.

[Sandrevan]

The umpires are David Harris, Robert Findlay and Shane McInerney.

I don't think we'll get any favours from McInerney. What about the other 2?

There's likely to be more Carlton fans than Swans fans - so we need to make sure we yell very loudly.