Round 5: NT Thunder v Sydney Swans Reserves @ TIO Stadium

[MattW]

Fox is back on the rookie list. Melican is currently keeping AJ's spot on the senior list warm. With Papley and Rohan having returned to the playing ranks, that's the only LTIL spot currently available.

Ah, thanks. I'd lost track. Well, Melican has that spot secured.

[liz]

Really like this guy. Long way to go, but can mark, kick a decent set shot and is fast; undoubtedly has the right attitude.

I find Pink a bit of an enigma. He clearly has good pace for someone of his height, and that first goal he kicked on Friday showed a fair bit of nous and skill - not just that he got to the ball first, but had sufficient time and presence to slow and balance himself before executing the kick. He works hard too, and his endurance looks reasonable for a first year player.

I get the impression he's not entirely sure he belongs at this level. In the game where he landed up with six goals, his first half was fairly ordinary - he poked at kicks and seemed surprised when the ball landed in his hands. I reckon the coaches are working on making him believe, and are making some progress. The determination with which he went back and converted the kick for his second goal on Friday was encouraging. I don't think he'd even have thought about attempting that a month ago.

My question mark over him is whether he's got enough of a competitive edge - mongrel, if you like - to graduate to the next level. Maybe it is just a case of confidence, and as this continues to improve, so will his intensity at each and every contest. For well over a decade, I've been watching young forwards come in and try to make their mark at whatever reserve grade the Swans are playing in at the time. Compared to a Grundy, say, or a White, he seems to enter contests hoping he might come away with the ball, rather than expecting he will. Not that those two won every contest, but they generally approached them as if they would.

It would be interesting to see him spend a bit of time in defence, to see how he spoils, and how he positions himself.

[MattW]

I find Pink a bit of an enigma. He clearly has good pace for someone of his height, and that first goal he kicked on Friday showed a fair bit of nous and skill - not just that he got to the ball first, but had sufficient time and presence to slow and balance himself before executing the kick. He works hard too, and his endurance looks reasonable for a first year player.

I get the impression he's not entirely sure he belongs at this level. In the game where he landed up with six goals, his first half was fairly ordinary - he poked at kicks and seemed surprised when the ball landed in his hands. I reckon the coaches are working on making him believe, and are making some progress. The determination with which he went back and converted the kick for his second goal on Friday was encouraging. I don't think he'd even have thought about attempting that a month ago.

My question mark over him is whether he's got enough of a competitive edge - mongrel, if you like - to graduate to the next level. Maybe it is just a case of confidence, and as this continues to improve, so will his intensity at each and every contest. I've been watching young forwards come in and try to make their mark at whatever reserve grade the Swans are playing in at the time. Compared to a Grundy, say, or a White, he seems to enter contests hoping he might come away with the ball, rather than expecting he will. Not that those two won every contest, but they generally approached them as if they would.

It would be interesting to see him spend a bit of time in defence, to see how he spoils, and how he positions himself.

I'm kind of surprised you say that. I've seen fewer NEAFL games than you - most of the last two and flashes of his six goal haul (I recall some from the goal square and over the back). But the moments the stick in my mind involve notable determination and self belief: a chase and tackle in the forward pocket v the Giants and that contested mark and 58m goal v Thunder, which you noted. He moved walked back from the mark like a man who knew he wasn't going to miss.

To the extent he's surprised by doing well, perhaps that's not surprising for someone who was a club's last pick in the rookie draft. He seems a good guy. I'm optimistic!

[Scottee]

I find Pink a bit of an enigma. He clearly has good pace for someone of his height, and that first goal he kicked on Friday showed a fair bit of nous and skill - not just that he got to the ball first, but had sufficient time and presence to slow and balance himself before executing the kick. He works hard too, and his endurance looks reasonable for a first year player.

I get the impression he's not entirely sure he belongs at this level. In the game where he landed up with six goals, his first half was fairly ordinary - he poked at kicks and seemed surprised when the ball landed in his hands. I reckon the coaches are working on making him believe, and are making some progress. The determination with which he went back and converted the kick for his second goal on Friday was encouraging. I don't think he'd even have thought about attempting that a month ago.

My question mark over him is whether he's got enough of a competitive edge - mongrel, if you like - to graduate to the next level. Maybe it is just a case of confidence, and as this continues to improve, so will his intensity at each and every contest. For well over a decade, I've been watching young forwards come in and try to make their mark at whatever reserve grade the Swans are playing in at the time. Compared to a Grundy, say, or a White, he seems to enter contests hoping he might come away with the ball, rather than expecting he will. Not that those two won every contest, but they generally approached them as if they would.

It would be interesting to see him spend a bit of time in defence, to see how he spoils, and how he positions himself.

Hi Liz, that's an interesting perspective. I see him as a player with very well rounded skills and abilities for a KPP. His reading of the play seems good, he seems to know where and when to run, his kicking and handballing is good and I am particularly impressed by his ball handling and agility ( the pirouetting handball through the middle to sustain a chain of handballs that led to a goal in the third quarter was particularly impressive).

He looks to me to be the sort of build that will end up at about 95kg rather than his present 85kg. That in itself will bring a lot of self belief in my opinion. I am also in the Toby optimists club and am ever hopeful he will do well.

Sent from my SM-T805Y using Tapatalk

[magic.merkin]

[QUOTE=Brettb;723743]

What's the go here? Injured?[/
Broke his ribs in the last intraclub I believe, had some serious complications from that injury, is about 2 weeks away from a neafl return

Gee whiz, ok. I've had rib issues nothing that bad. It's a bloody painful, debilitating thing. Thank you!

[ugg]

NEAFL MVP votes

NT Thunder v Sydney
8: Dean Towers (Sydney)
5: Darcy Cameron (Sydney)
5: Oliver Florent (Sydney)
4: Jordan Dawson (Sydney)
3: Toby Pink (Sydney)
3: Cameron Ilett (NT Thunder)
2: Adam Sambono (NT Thunder)

[Billericay]

NEAFL MVP votes

NT Thunder v Sydney
8: Dean Towers (Sydney)
5: Darcy Cameron (Sydney)
5: Oliver Florent (Sydney)
4: Jordan Dawson (Sydney)
3: Toby Pink (Sydney)
3: Cameron Ilett (NT Thunder)
2: Adam Sambono (NT Thunder)

Is this Dean Towers v2.0?
Or if we play him in the AFL will he be unable to reproduce his NEAFL form?

[Ludwig]

Is this Dean Towers v2.0?
Or if we play him in the AFL will he be unable to reproduce his NEAFL form?

He's the perfect candidate for the midfielder-ruckman position. He could reignite his career with this role as no opposition ruckman could go with him. He can rotate with Aliir. Cameron can take a third of the contests playing as a forward-ruck. We should train up Toby Pink to play as a ruckman-tall utility (same as Aliir). We should get rid all the other so-called ruckmen asap.

With the new rule changes and with the AFL moving to a last touch OOB rule, only the centre bounces really matter for stoppages. Any given team can just play to its strengths at centre bounce set plays and try to get an advantage. Having a tall ruckman is only one way to go about it.

[Billericay]

He's the perfect candidate for the midfielder-ruckman position. He could reignite his career with this role as no opposition ruckman could go with him. He can rotate with Aliir. Cameron can take a third of the contests playing as a forward-ruck. We should train up Toby Pink to play as a ruckman-tall utility (same as Aliir). We should get rid all the other so-called ruckmen asap.

With the new rule changes and with the AFL moving to a last touch OOB rule, only the centre bounces really matter for stoppages. Any given team can just play to its strengths at centre bounce set plays and try to get an advantage. Having a tall ruckman is only one way to go about it.

I can see the logic in all of this. I wonder if anyone in Horse's inner sanctum can? How does Aliir / Towers compare to Goodesy height wise?

[magic.merkin]

I can see the logic in all of this. I wonder if anyone in Horse's inner sanctum can? How does Aliir / Towers compare to Goodesy height wise?

Goodes - 1.94cm

2012 Draft Combine Stats:
Towers - 1.89cm / Standing Vertical Leap - 85cm (League record in 2012) / Running Vertical Leap - 89cm
Aliir - 1.96cm / Standing Vertical Leap - 70cm / Running Vertical Leap - 87cm

[bloodspirit]

I can see the logic in all of this. I wonder if anyone in Horse's inner sanctum can? How does Aliir / Towers compare to Goodesy height wise?

it's logical but I'm not sure it makes sense. Might be worth trialling but at NEAFL level first. Overall I'm not convinced.

I think rucks exist for a reason. Plus the game has a vested interest in maintaining the role because we all know the game loves its traditions and the romanticism of that. (I'm in favour too.) One of the oft-trotted-out selling points of AFL is that it's suitable for all body sizes. So, if coaches actually succeed in eliminating the need for rucks it wouldn't surprise me to see the AFL change the rules to put an end to that.

[stevoswan]

Full replay of the Swans reserves vs NT Thunder on NITV at 9.30 tonight.

[Markwebbos]

Goodes - 1.94cm

2012 Draft Combine Stats:
Towers - 1.89cm / Standing Vertical Leap - 85cm (League record in 2012) / Running Vertical Leap - 89cm
Aliir - 1.96cm / Standing Vertical Leap - 70cm / Running Vertical Leap - 87cm

Of course. Now I remember that Towers broke the record in his draft year. He may not be as tall as others but he can leap higher.

Ludwig, doesnt Towering suffer from Sinclair Butter Fingers Disease?

[Ludwig]

it's logical but I'm not sure it makes sense. Might be worth trialling but at NEAFL level first. Overall I'm not convinced.

I think rucks exist for a reason. Plus the game has a vested interest in maintaining the role because we all know the game loves its traditions and the romanticism of that. (I'm in favour too.) One of the oft-trotted-out selling points of AFL is that it's suitable for all body sizes. So, if coaches actually succeed in eliminating the need for rucks it wouldn't surprise me to see the AFL change the rules to put an end to that.

In its infinite wisdom of trying to produce fewer stoppages, the AFL has dramatically changed the role and importance of the ruckman. Teams are already catching on. Josh Dunkley and Shawn Grigg have both been ruckmen at around the ground stoppages. Cam Pedersen was forced to be the Melbourne ruckman due to injuries to Gawn and Spencer and outplayed Bellchambers in the Essendon game. Some say Polly Farmer was the best ruckman in the game and he was only 191 cms.

As long as there are stoppages, there will still be ruckmen, but what constitutes a good ruckman has changed, because the game has changed. Teams that learn that the best use of the ruckman is to get one of your best players at the stoppages creating a mismatch of having an extra mobile player versus a lumbering player will reap the benefits of this strategy. I don't think there is any particular formula for what constitutes a good modern ruckman. The main characteristic is that the ruckman must make a contribution around the ground, and this can be done in any number of ways.

Tippett can be one of the best ruckmen in the game if he competes at the stoppages, takes marks and kick 40 plus goals (and not get injured all the time).

Towers has played as a 3rd man up and has done it successfully, as you might imagine with his leap. He's 27 yo and contracted till next year. He's not good enough to make the team in any regular position, so why not try him in the ruck. I agree that we should try him out in the reserves first and see how it goes. His problem is that he's been a poor decision maker and doesn't apply enough effective defensive pressure, although his pace should make him very good in this aspect of the game. He's a good mark and usually kicks well enough.

There's little point in trying to match it physically with some ruckmen, like Sandilands, NicNat, Mummy and Max Gawn, so it's best to find a way to work around the fact that you are going to lose the hitouts. In the weekend games, Melbourne lost the hitouts 45 to 25 but won the inside 50s by 1. GWS won the hitouts 62 to 25, but won the inside 50s 63 to 50, so clearly went into the game knowing they could not compete against Mummy in the hitouts, but managed to create more scoring chances and only lost due to poor conversion.

I think an Adam Goodes type player would make the best modern day ruckman, although players like AG don't come around that often. But in terms of size and mobility, he would be the prototype. There's less chance of getting injured in the rucking contests if the ruckman avoids making physical contact with the opposition ruckman, especially avoiding the flying knee. Tradition or not, I wouldn't mind seeing that aspect of the game eliminated. Going over the top of the ruck contest was essentially the tactic used with the 3rd man up and I think it can be utilised in the 2 man ruck contest as well.

[dejavoodoo44]

Goodes - 1.94cm

2012 Draft Combine Stats:
Towers - 1.89cm / Standing Vertical Leap - 85cm (League record in 2012) / Running Vertical Leap - 89cm
Aliir - 1.96cm / Standing Vertical Leap - 70cm / Running Vertical Leap - 87cm

Hmmm, I wonder if the record standing leap, was a major reason in why we recruited Towers? I might be a touch angry, if I find out that he was once a member of the Australian Ballet.