Next Generation v Swans Academy

[Meg]

The Next Generation Academies (NGAs) were only announced in February 2016 so will have been barely operational for two years at the end of this season. So I was surprised to read this AFL article today referring to "a group of 11 draft prospects eligible to join clubs as Next Generation Academy players this year". I had thought that the first NGA recruits to be eligible for the draft would not be until end 2018.

Hawks primed to land multicultural forward - AFL.com.au

I find it difficult to believe the NGAs have discovered new talent and then developed the players to be draft-ready inside two years of the academies being operational. So any players drafted so early in the life of NGAs could be said to be simply zone recruits - the very criticism southern states have levelled at the northern academies (NAs).

I think the AFL tightened the draft eligibility rules for northern (NAs) some time again which would make their rules more stringent than seem to apply to the NGAs, but I can't now find the reference.

The article also says that that 2018 "could see the first top-end player taken under NGA rules, with North Melbourne having access to Tarryn Trindall (Thomas) via its Tasmanian zone." This is the player Boddo has been telling us about for some time - apparently a very exciting prospect. Interesting that Thomas and Blakey will come up in the same draft with North Melbourne wanting them both. This will give the Academy v F/S debate an added dimension!

Some of the draft eligibility rules for NA players are contained in the AFL Rules, including the requirement that a draft eligible player must been domiciled in the Club?s Academy Region for a period of 5 continuous years immediately prior to attaining draft eligibility age. But I think there is a more recent requirement re developmental time spent in the northern academy. The last version of the Rules that I can find is dated May 2016. If anyone can post a more recent reference I would be very interested.

(As an aside, I do not understand why the AFL does not have a simple link on their website to all Laws, Rules, Regulations, etc. - unless it is deliberately hiding them?).

[dejavoodoo44]

Yes, personally I reckon that the NGAs, are largely just an unjustified reward for the Melbourne clubs, for their whining about the northern academies. I've been meaning to write a long post about some of the aspects of the issue, but I really haven't had the time.

[Boddo]

The Next Generation Academies (NGAs) were only announced in February 2016 so will have been barely operational for two years at the end of this season. So I was surprised to read this AFL article today referring to "a group of 11 draft prospects eligible to join clubs as Next Generation Academy players this year". I had thought that the first NGA recruits to be eligible for the draft would not be until end 2018.

Hawks primed to land multicultural forward - AFL.com.au

I find it difficult to believe the NGAs have discovered new talent and then developed the players to be draft-ready inside two years of the academies being operational. So any players drafted so early in the life of NGAs could be said to be simply zone recruits - the very criticism southern states have levelled at the northern academies (NAs).

I think the AFL tightened the draft eligibility rules for northern (NAs) some time again which would make their rules more stringent than seem to apply to the NGAs, but I can't now find the reference.

The article also says that that 2018 "could see the first top-end player taken under NGA rules, with North Melbourne having access to Tarryn Trindall (Thomas) via its Tasmanian zone." This is the player Boddo has been telling us about for some time - apparently a very exciting prospect. Interesting that Thomas and Blakey will come up in the same draft with North Melbourne wanting them both. This will give the Academy v F/S debate an added dimension!

Some of the draft eligibility rules for NA players are contained in the AFL Rules, including the requirement that a draft eligible player must been domiciled in the Club?s Academy Region for a period of 5 continuous years immediately prior to attaining draft eligibility age. But I think there is a more recent requirement re developmental time spent in the northern academy. The last version of the Rules that I can find is dated May 2016. If anyone can post a more recent reference I would be very interested.

(As an aside, I do not understand why the AFL does not have a simple link on their website to all Laws, Rules, Regulations, etc. - unless it is deliberately hiding them?).

Don't forget Ethan Penrith from Carltons NGA. Rated by some as a possible 1st round pick this year. But like I have said in a number of threads it shouldn't be NA v NGA. It's the total hypocrisy of the Victorian media that does my head in. All the BS. The double standard and lastly the total lies.

It would be good if the posts in other threads in regards to NGA's could be moved here. It would provide some more clarity for people reading.

And finally it could educate the illiterate people like David King as this Norf mouthpiece frequents a fair few forums. He gave it away on the weekend when he called Sam Petrevski-Seton SPS. The using of his initials has only ever been used on forums.

[Boddo]

Yes, personally I reckon that the NGAs, are largely just an unjustified reward for the Melbourne clubs, for their whining about the northern academies. I've been meaning to write a long post about some of the aspects of the issue, but I really haven't had the time.

Disagree. In theory it is a great initiative to bring people to the game that wouldn't look twice at our great game. E.g. The South African immigrants in say Joondalup or Baldivis in WA that call Aussie rules aerial ping pong like people from Sydney used to. It could be great if used properly. But sadly it's not.

[Meg]

Next Generation v Swans Academy

Yes, personally I reckon that the NGAs, are largely just an unjustified reward for the Melbourne clubs, for their whining about the northern academies.

That is also my view djvd. The southern clubs whinged constantly about the northern academies but the AFL knew the NAs were starting to meet their objective of spreading the reach of Australian Rules. So the AFL found a peace offering for the other clubs, aka the NGAs.

I for one am prepared to accept that as long as the rules for NGAs match exactly those of the NAs. If that is the case then I would hope that the NGAs would attract some high-potential young boys who would otherwise not play Australian Rules, and then develop them into draft talent. If that happens then I would accept the collateral issue that some clubs will get players gifted to them who would have played Aussie Rules anyway (as happens with the NAs).

I'm not confident that the NGAs will actually develop new talent but it seems we will start to see in the near future.

[Boddo]

That is also my view djvd. The southern clubs whinged constantly about the northern academies but the AFL knew the NAs were starting to meet their objective of spreading the reach of Australian Rules. So the AFL found a peace offering for the other clubs, aka the NGAs.

I for one am prepared to accept that as long as the rules for NGAs match exactly those of the NAs. If that is the case then I would hope that the NGAs would attract some high-potential young boys who would otherwise not play Australian Rules, and then develop them into draft talent. If that happens then I would accept the collateral issue that some clubs will get players gifted to them who would have played Aussie Rules anyway (as happens with the NAs).

I'm not confident that the NGAs will actually develop new talent but it seems we will start to see in the near future.

Further to what we have spoke about in regards to access to indigenous players from remote areas as pointed out in a link you provided in another thread when I said Launceston was not remote I still cannot understand how anyone could class Shepparton as remote, it's 192km from Melbourne, but not count Bunbury as its 172km from Perth. Like I keep saying it's just the total hypocrisy and lies from the club mouthpieces. BTW I have been to Shep n Bunbury a number of times. It ain't remote, if anyone is trying to call it remote my advice would be to put down the bottle n seek help.

[dejavoodoo44]

That is also my view djvd. The southern clubs whinged constantly about the northern academies but the AFL knew the NAs were starting to meet their objective of spreading the reach of Australian Rules. So the AFL found a peace offering for the other clubs, aka the NGAs.

I for one am prepared to accept that as long as the rules for NGAs match exactly those of the NAs. If that is the case then I would hope that the NGAs would attract some high-potential young boys who would otherwise not play Australian Rules, and then develop them into draft talent. If that happens then I would accept the collateral issue that some clubs will get players gifted to them who would have played Aussie Rules anyway (as happens with the NAs).

I'm not confident that the NGAs will actually develop new talent but it seems we will start to see in the near future.

Yes, Meg, I think my main criticism, is that I seriously doubt if they'll be doing much in the way of encouraging and developing new talent, more just claiming the talent that is already there.
My main concern is with indigenous talent. There's many areas where the indigenous population is over represented in the statistics. Unfortunately, these are mainly negative in nature: over represented in incarceration rates, infant mortality, preventable diseases, etc. However, one area where they're over represented in a good way, is in AFL participation. Currently, there are 76 indigenous players on the AFL lists, out of a total number of 812 players. This works out at 9.35%: which is something the AFL community should be proud of, since the indigenous population is 3% of the total Australian population. It's something of a testament to those players, officials and administrators of the past, who took a stand against racism and made a career as an AFL player, a much more realistic prospect for indigenous players. But with those already established pathways, I don't see why it's necessary for the Victorian clubs to get what are essentially indigenous recruitment zones.
To make my point here, I'll use the most flagrant example: the Tiwi Islands. Having seen the national coverage of the Tiwi grand finals that used to be on the ABC, it seems that AFL is more than just the number one code in the Tiwis, it's more like a religion. And the stats are interesting reading. The current Tiwi population is 2,600. From that tiny population level, the Tiwis have produced three Norm Smith medallists, in Maurice Rioli, Michael Long and Cyril Rioli. Yet now, under the sham concept of developing indigenous talent, any talented kid from the Tiwis is now more or less tied to Essendon, who gets to recruit them at an AFL funded draft discount. And it's similar in the rest of the NT, which has been divided up amongst Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Melbourne.
And it gets worse. When I said that indigenous players are over represented, that only applies to the states where AFL is the dominant code. In NSW and Qld, it's a different story. Of the 76 indigenous players, four are from NSW and one is from Qld. Essentially because rugby league is the dominant code and for years, it has been attracting a large number of indigenous players. So, if the AFL administration was serious about actually attracting kids who may not have been going to play the game, they should be investing in these two states. But no, they have given seed funding to all the clubs outside of NSW and Qld, to establish academies, whose major function will be to fix a problem that doesn't exist. While my understanding is that we fund our own academy?
And in this process, they've essentially tied promising talent to the clubs that they've handed the zones to. If this system was in place in the past, they would've been close to zero chance that we could have recruited Goodesy or Mickey O. And it probably means that in the future, the only indigenous players on the lists of NSW and Qld clubs, will be an occasional player that has been wrested away from rugby league and been put through our academies. Anyone other than that, in all likelihood, would have already been taken in the draft.
So to sum up, the AFL has given away cash, to solve a problem that doesn't exist, that will lessen the options of indigenous talent, and in the process, given a draft advantage to 14 out of the 18 clubs. In the areas where the problem might exist, the AFL has given away no cash, given a draft disadvantage to 4 of the 18 clubs and made it harder for them to recruit any indigenous talent.

[S.S. Bleeder]

Disagree. In theory it is a great initiative to bring people to the game that wouldn't look twice at our great game. E.g. The South African immigrants in say Joondalup or Baldivis in WA that call Aussie rules aerial ping pong like people from Sydney used to. It could be great if used properly. But sadly it's not.

If that was the case they would have given us, GWS, BL and GCS a zone. It's clearly been done to appease the clubs in traditional AFL zones, the Melbourne clubs in particular. No doubt about it.

[Boddo]

If that was the case they would have given us, GWS, BL and GCS a zone. It's clearly been done to appease the clubs in traditional AFL zones, the Melbourne clubs in particular. No doubt about it.

We have our zone. Its our academy zone. Like I said, if done properly it would be great. E.g same academy rules for every club not rules for some & not others like Melbourne clubs having access to indigenous players in cities of their zoned area but the Perth clubs not having these same rules- Thomas from Launceston is eligible but an indigenous player from Bunbury is not. That's a joke. Also why this magic thing of only one parent from either Asia or Africa make you eligible but not Europe, South & North America? It's a total cluster f...k all made to appease clubs in Melbourne with links to the media - McGuire, King, Dunstall etc. please read through mine and other posts From the father son v academy & GWS academy changes threads. As I have regularly pointed out I'm not against NGA's just against the implementation of how they have gone about it. One word comes to my mind about the Melbourne clubs when it comes NGA's v NA n its "hypocrite"

[Boddo]

I'll also add sitting down listening to the VFL 360, oh sorry AFL360 is just how illiterate some of the Melbourne media is when it comes to NGA's. I've heard King spout how SPS wanted to come to Melbourne twice this week, what an absolute clown. I don't think he realises that SPS would actually be in Fremantle's NGA if he was drafted just one year later and more than likely if asked and answered truthfully would have loved to stay in WA with Freo. Yes Kingy ya Melbourne cronies will never get talent from the Kimberly again dopey.

[Boddo]

Yes, Meg, I think my main criticism, is that I seriously doubt if they'll be doing much in the way of encouraging and developing new talent, more just claiming the talent that is already there.
My main concern is with indigenous talent. There's many areas where the indigenous population is over represented in the statistics. Unfortunately, these are mainly negative in nature: over represented in incarceration rates, infant mortality, preventable diseases, etc. However, one area where they're over represented in a good way, is in AFL participation. Currently, there are 76 indigenous players on the AFL lists, out of a total number of 812 players. This works out at 9.35%: which is something the AFL community should be proud of, since the indigenous population is 3% of the total Australian population. It's something of a testament to those players, officials and administrators of the past, who took a stand against racism and made a career as an AFL player, a much more realistic prospect for indigenous players. But with those already established pathways, I don't see why it's necessary for the Victorian clubs to get what are essentially indigenous recruitment zones.
To make my point here, I'll use the most flagrant example: the Tiwi Islands. Having seen the national coverage of the Tiwi grand finals that used to be on the ABC, it seems that AFL is more than just the number one code in the Tiwis, it's more like a religion. And the stats are interesting reading. The current Tiwi population is 2,600. From that tiny population level, the Tiwis have produced three Norm Smith medallists, in Maurice Rioli, Michael Long and Cyril Rioli. Yet now, under the sham concept of developing indigenous talent, any talented kid from the Tiwis is now more or less tied to Essendon, who gets to recruit them at an AFL funded draft discount. And it's similar in the rest of the NT, which has been divided up amongst Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Melbourne.
And it gets worse. When I said that indigenous players are over represented, that only applies to the states where AFL is the dominant code. In NSW and Qld, it's a different story. Of the 76 indigenous players, four are from NSW and one is from Qld. Essentially because rugby league is the dominant code and for years, it has been attracting a large number of indigenous players. So, if the AFL administration was serious about actually attracting kids who may not have been going to play the game, they should be investing in these two states. But no, they have given seed funding to all the clubs outside of NSW and Qld, to establish academies, whose major function will be to fix a problem that doesn't exist. While my understanding is that we fund our own academy?
And in this process, they've essentially tied promising talent to the clubs that they've handed the zones to. If this system was in place in the past, they would've been close to zero chance that we could have recruited Goodesy or Mickey O. And it probably means that in the future, the only indigenous players on the lists of NSW and Qld clubs, will be an occasional player that has been wrested away from rugby league and been put through our academies. Anyone other than that, in all likelihood, would have already been taken in the draft.
So to sum up, the AFL has given away cash, to solve a problem that doesn't exist, that will lessen the options of indigenous talent, and in the process, given a draft advantage to 14 out of the 18 clubs. In the areas where the problem might exist, the AFL has given away no cash, given a draft disadvantage to 4 of the 18 clubs and made it harder for them to recruit any indigenous talent.

I pretty much agree with everything except not having indigenous players in the academies from remote areas. I have family that has an indigenous partner so speak from knowledge gained from them. An indigenous kid from remote areas like for example the Kimberly area, Freo's academy, find it very very difficult to relocate away from their culture, family & friends. It's a massive move to just move to Perth let alone be drafted to another city in Australia. We lose a lot of talent from areas like this. We might keep them playing the game in the Kimberly area but a lot don't move onto the AFL due to reasons I have stated. So effectively talent lost to the AFL. And that's what the NGA's & NA are for. To help the transition from their home life to a professional football environment. Please read up on the good work by Clontarf

Clontarf Academy | Clontarf Foundation

It becomes laughable when you have indigenous kids like Thomas from Launceston being eligible. It distorts the system and destroys what academies are for. Again thanks to the hypocritical Melbourne clubs.

[dejavoodoo44]

I pretty much agree with everything except not having indigenous players in the academies from remote areas. I have family that has an indigenous partner so speak from knowledge gained from them. An indigenous kid from remote areas like for example the Kimberly area, Freo's academy, find it very very difficult to relocate away from their culture, family & friends. It's a massive move to just move to Perth let alone be drafted to another city in Australia. We lose a lot of talent from areas like this. We might keep them playing the game in the Kimberly area but a lot don't move onto the AFL due to reasons I have stated. So effectively talent lost to the AFL. And that's what the NGA's & NA are for. To help the transition from their home life to a professional football environment. Please read up on the good work by Clontarf

Clontarf Academy | Clontarf Foundation

It becomes laughable when you have indigenous kids like Thomas from Launceston being eligible. It distorts the system and destroys what academies are for. Again thanks to the hypocritical Melbourne clubs.

Thanks for the link, Boddo. Obviously they're doing good work and it seems that the Clontarf Academies have played a significant role in the development to draft standard, of many young indigenous players. Although I couldn't find any current info on just how many? Though the other day, when I was using the AFL Record to work out just how many current indigenous players there were, I was quite surprised by the number that came from WA. Of the 76 currently on AFL lists, 31 are originally from WA. Since the Clontarf Foundation was started in WA, I suspect it may have something to do with that.
Though I think that the fact that it was founded in 2000, does tend to back up my point about the Melbourne clubs. That is, if this and possibly other groups, are already performing the role of getting indigenous kids draft ready, without tying them to any particular club, then why was it necessary to introduce a system, that gives indigenous players almost no choice in which club they end up playing for? While the AFL draft is hardly a free choice system, there are few ways that young players can strongly hint on their preferences before the draft. Such as letting recruiters know that family is really important to you and for that reason, you'd really hate to move interstate. Or really enthusing to the Hawks recruiter, about how you've been a lifelong Hawks fan, but coming across as having a few personality issues to the representatives of other clubs. But indigenous kids and those with African or Asian connections, aren't even able to do that. If you just happen to be brought up in an Essendon or Hawthorn zone, then you're stuck with them, whether they had the slightest role in your development or not.

[Boddo]

Thanks for the link, Boddo. Obviously they're doing good work and it seems that the Clontarf Academies have played a significant role in the development to draft standard, of many young indigenous players. Although I couldn't find any current info on just how many? Though the other day, when I was using the AFL Record to work out just how many current indigenous players there were, I was quite surprised by the number that came from WA. Of the 76 currently on AFL lists, 31 are originally from WA. Since the Clontarf Foundation was started in WA, I suspect it may have something to do with that.
Though I think that the fact that it was founded in 2000, does tend to back up my point about the Melbourne clubs. That is, if this and possibly other groups, are already performing the role of getting indigenous kids draft ready, without tying them to any particular club, then why was it necessary to introduce a system, that gives indigenous players almost no choice in which club they end up playing for? While the AFL draft is hardly a free choice system, there are few ways that young players can strongly hint on their preferences before the draft. Such as letting recruiters know that family is really important to you and for that reason, you'd really hate to move interstate. Or really enthusing to the Hawks recruiter, about how you've been a lifelong Hawks fan, but coming across as having a few personality issues to the representatives of other clubs. But indigenous kids and those with African or Asian connections, aren't even able to do that. If you just happen to be brought up in an Essendon or Hawthorn zone, then you're stuck with them, whether they had the slightest role in your development or not.

The Clontarf foundation does excellent work. As I've stated in other threads the major draw for families in regards to academies, whether that be indigenous, Asian or African, is that you stay in the same state as your family. This is the drawcard just like what is being used in NSW & Qld to encourage parents to put their child into an AFL academy thus playing our great game. The best example I can give you is my own. My wife is Asian n has no interest in the game of Aussie rules, none whatsoever in any way shape or form. She preferred our son concentrate on school. I want him to grow up and play Aussie rules. The clincher to convince her was that I told her and showed her on the net that when old enough & if good enough he would stay at home & be part of Freo's academy n if good enough play with Freo. Her first words when I told her was "yes definitely" with a massive smile. Now the killer was when she asked me a few days later would they change the rules I said they may or may not. It was a massive change from there. So no chance of him playing, I contacted Freo n informed them and asked them to pass this onto the AFL. Families from other cultures are are very very family orientated, it matters a lot staying at home with their family members. It's why academies work and work well.

[Boddo]

I'll also add that is one of my biggest arguments in regards to how much time they have spent in their respective academies. That's one of the reasons I called it a cluster@@@@. If at least set up exactly like the northern academies with players having to spend 5 consecutive years in their respective NGA, the argument of no development getting put into them would be non existent. I will say I do know that Thomas and other members of Norfs tassie academy do spend a good amount of time getting development from Norf. So has Ethan Penrith from Carltons NGA. If you google Penrith you will see that he has spent time with Carlton. Maybe the initial period will be fazed In and it could turn into the 5 consecutive years like the NA. But like anything with NGA's information is very very hard to find.

[Boddo]

Thanks for the link, Boddo. Obviously they're doing good work and it seems that the Clontarf Academies have played a significant role in the development to draft standard, of many young indigenous players. Although I couldn't find any current info on just how many? Though the other day, when I was using the AFL Record to work out just how many current indigenous players there were, I was quite surprised by the number that came from WA. Of the 76 currently on AFL lists, 31 are originally from WA. Since the Clontarf Foundation was started in WA, I suspect it may have something to do with that.
Though I think that the fact that it was founded in 2000, does tend to back up my point about the Melbourne clubs. That is, if this and possibly other groups, are already performing the role of getting indigenous kids draft ready, without tying them to any particular club, then why was it necessary to introduce a system, that gives indigenous players almost no choice in which club they end up playing for? While the AFL draft is hardly a free choice system, there are few ways that young players can strongly hint on their preferences before the draft. Such as letting recruiters know that family is really important to you and for that reason, you'd really hate to move interstate. Or really enthusing to the Hawks recruiter, about how you've been a lifelong Hawks fan, but coming across as having a few personality issues to the representatives of other clubs. But indigenous kids and those with African or Asian connections, aren't even able to do that. If you just happen to be brought up in an Essendon or Hawthorn zone, then you're stuck with them, whether they had the slightest role in your development or not.

Hi just to follow up on our conversation earlier. On Foxtel tonight was a short half hour show on the Clontarf foundation called From Little Things. It shows that through our great game it helps indigenous kids improve their whole life. It's a holistic academy not an afl academy geared 100% towards producing afl players it's why in conjunction with the Clontarf foundation that NGA's can be a great addition towards pathways to AFL talent.