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This is the previous thread with a lot of constructive discussion on the NGA topic.
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Thanks Meg, lots of good stuff there mainly from our man on the ground in WA Boddo.
My read on his posts is that he basically think the NGA is a good idea but has a few issues. I'd agree with that and I think the NGA was no doubt rushed through earlier than it should have to placate the Victorian clubs.
But in time I trust the AFL to get it right and if the other 14 clubs approach their NGAs with the same goodwill and sense of community that we have approached ours then I think it will be a success. And I think the clubs that commit to the programme, like the WA clubs, will ensure that the other clubs do not rort the system.
Boddo makes mention of the WA clubs and their indigenous programmes and how the flow from WA to other states of indigenous talent will at the very least be greatly reduced. At the risk of opening up a political and racial debate I think this is a good thing, I think that the indigenous kids suffer from homesickness a lot more acutely and if they did not need to leave WA that would be good. Provided the WA clubs genuinely do the development work and pay a fair price at the draft table.
And from a selfish point of view, if the NGAs are required to cement the NAs into the AFL structure then I'm happy for the other clubs to have themComment
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Yes I m in favour of NGA's. But like you have said there is issues.
In regards to the indigenous academies your right homesickness is a massive issue. Indigenous people call each other cousin even if their not blood related & have a massive connection to their culture, friends, family n where they come from. I've seen a number of these kids up north n their skill is amazing to watch. Done correctly, which I think the WA clubs are doing, it's going to be a very successful program going forward. Not just for talent identification but also for their communities.
On the Blakey one with North. It's not just King. These club mouthpieces work together regularly n I have no doubt will make a concerted effort together to take away F/S's from academies. They have done the same spreading the lie that Sydney bought Franklin with all the COLA money. The issue is they are so powerful with what gets put out in public that the AFL end up folding n giving in to selfish attitudes. After the WA clubs indigenous programs start to produce good talent they'll go after them no doubt. And it will show that they have no interest in the development of our game n it's people. Pretty much all the inaqualities in regards to academies I talk about are in favour of Victorian clubs. Again this happens cause they have to much power. Way way to much.Comment
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Time will tell I guess re the Victorian clubs.
The NGAs in WA are potentially a gamechanger to take the indigenous football development up yet another notch there. So Freo and WCE have a significant stake in keeping the academies AND F/S.
Re Blakey and other situations like Baily Scott the kids have a choice, they are not excluded from going F/S so I think that really is very fair. If Blakey did choose North I'd be disappointed but I'd respect his decision just like I did with Dunkley as I'm sure he indicated a Vic club preference. I know this is wishful thinking but it would be nice if the Vic clubs could do the same.
On a practical level it is all about keeping the Academies. How many kids have we ever gotten that are any good via F/S?, only one of note that I can remember (Mitchell). I'm not saying that it should happen, and if it does we should fight it with all our might but even if it did happen it wouldn't hurt us much. And the Blakey situation is an outlier.
Gillon is starting to show a bit of form in making good decisions re the academies. Whilst the need tweaking I think the NGAs were a good response to an issue that was threatening to tear things apart (and it is especially good for WA and SA which is good) and the way he trimmed back the GWS concessions with the remark "I don't know why they were in there in the first place to be honest" in terms of the Murray Border kids was another example of commonsense.
It will take at least a generation but ultimately the academies will probably disappear and that should be a good thing. They will be a victim of their own success and any advantage the Swans get will be unfair. That's a long way off, when Sydney starts to regularly produce 10+ draftable kids yearly on a regular basis and when the AFL culture in Sydney is so strong that it doesn't need special considerations. We can then get downgraded to a NGA only. That scenario is 20 years away at best IMO though
I've said this before but ultimately the academies need to start producing players for other clubs regularly and we need to start letting kids go in good grace in the knowledge we will always get the one we really want. I even like the idea that limits the R1 academy picks to 1 if you finish top 4 but I do think you should be able to trade in a second pick by trading in a second first rounder.
I think the lack of noise from down south this year does indicate that most of the sting has gone out of this debate and I think Gillon has played a huge role in diffusing it.Last edited by Mug Punter; 15 September 2017, 09:54 AM.Comment
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Next Generation v Swans Academy
Sometime ago in this thread we discussed the possibility that NGAs would become defacto zones rather than fulfil the intent they should target new talent from under-represented groups.
This article seems to indicate that possibility is already a fact.
?More than 20 players likely to be taken in the (next) draft will come from Next Generation Academies (NGAs), are father-son prospects or part of the northern club academies.?
?Fairfax Media has been told that clubs routinely ask about the backgrounds of every player on TAC Cup lists, and so already in the pathway program, to determine whether they fill the criteria for one of the academies and therefore under the club's priority access.?
(This is tangentially related to outrage re Blakey?s decision to state his preference to be drafted by the Swans under the northern academy rules rather then be a F/S selection by the Roos or Lions. Would be very hypocritical to change the rules for the northern academies but ignore what seems to be happening in NGAs).
Ps: the jostling for points accumulation leading up to the draft will be fascinating to watch!Comment
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Yes, very hypocritical. And I can't see the Victorian clubs throwing much cash at their academies, if all they have to do to get access to players, is to get somebody to ask TAC cup kids, a question like, "What is your ethnicity?"Sometime ago in this thread we discussed the possibility that NGAs would become defacto zones rather than fulfil the intent they should target new talent from under-represented groups.
This article seems to indicate that possibility is already a fact.
?More than 20 players likely to be taken in the (next) draft will come from Next Generation Academies (NGAs), are father-son prospects or part of the northern club academies.?
?Fairfax Media has been told that clubs routinely ask about the backgrounds of every player on TAC Cup lists, and so already in the pathway program, to determine whether they fill the criteria for one of the academies and therefore under the club's priority access.?
(This is tangentially related to outrage re Blakey?s decision to state his preference to be drafted by the Swans under the northern academy rules rather then be a F/S selection by the Roos or Lions. Would be very hypocritical to change the rules for the northern academies but ignore what seems to be happening in NGAs).
Ps: the jostling for points accumulation leading up to the draft will be fascinating to watch!Comment
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The rules around NGA are so blurry that we'll see all of the old zone tactics employed again like promising kids suddenly moving residential address to be in a preferred clubs zone. We even saw some dodgy stuff around this with the GWS academy zone down Mexico way.Comment
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I know families who are Aussie through and through but one or both parents immigrated when they were very young. It appears that kids from these very Aussie backgrounds who have played AFL all their life are now suddenly appearing as NGA draft prospects for Victorian clubs.
Caving in to Maguire & co has created this potential mess for the VFL, and it will get worse.Comment
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As I?ve stated before my son is eligible for Fremantle NGA when old enough. My side of the family has produced some pretty damn good footy players, my uncle played state footy when it really meant something. But if Fremantle were able to get him into their academy they get one side of his family following AFL which would never happen without NGA?s. Just like what has happened with northern academies now.
I actually don?t mind part of how it?s been setup but the worst parts are for example the qualification period should be scaled to 5 years as time goes by.
It?ll eventually get to full academies with the draft. IMO. The same for everyone just like there is now for northern academies. But it only works with a strict 5 year qualification period, try setting up a 5 year Scotch College Boarding scholarship then. Pretty hard. You?d have players for example like Aliir & Rampe who would go into a draft with no club attachment.
The advantage from the AFL?s perspective is it saves a bucket load of money for them. And the game goes back to what it really is about, tribalism.
The NGA?s are a great idea but as per usual the Amateur Football League never thinks things out long term.Comment
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Boddo
As a parent of a child involved in an academy, are you able to shed some light on what the NGA academies actually entail in terms of development activities. Are they as extensive as the northern academies?Comment
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I?ll also add in regards to some posters that are mostly on BF that think it?s just back to the old days of zoning. A full academy setup with the draft would not destroy equalisation.
You wouldn?t have any discount. You wouldn?t allow clubs to continually use the next years draft to pay for that star first round pick, you would only be aloud to bank it once every 3-4 years for one player not multiple players, the first 2 rounds you?d only be able to match academy picks to how many draft picks you have in that round, you don?t have a first round pick you can?t match a player in the first round. Players must be in zoned area for 5 years like the Northern academies to qualify as part of a draftable academy player.
Which would mean for example say Lukosius is in Adelaide zoned area. That one pick would knock out all of this years picks plus next years first round pick. Plus they can?t match any bid on any round after that for 2018 or 2019. This means every player in their zone area is up for grabs.
Plus lastly for F/S same rules plus the club must have some extensive contact with the player to qualify.
This allows clubs to become more involved with their fans/zones like Sydney are with its academy plus saves the AFL a lot of money. And like I?ve said before the game reverts to the tribalism like I?ve said.
Going forward this is the best solution IMO
I used to have a full setup of how it would work with other problem solving/setup issues but have deleted it off my hardrive.Last edited by Boddo; 3 May 2018, 12:15 PM.Comment
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